If you could draft one player from the 21st century who would you pick?

[tiger_tough]

Any chance of getting Jacob Townsend added to the poll?

 

[Fadge]

Those are merely Collingwood best & faiests though. Martin's & Rance's are of the elevated dynasty team variety.

1 B&F in a premiership team between Martin and Rance.

The other two in seasons where one (losing) final in total was played.

So twice as many club best and fairests for the Collingwood boys (so far).

Podium finishes will also be measured.

 

[Noidnadroj]

For what they’ve actually achieved I’d draft Martin.

GAJ was a superstar, but he was traded to a really poor team for the absolute peak years of his career, and history tells us he was not able to lift them even into finals over a 7-year period, let alone a flag - he played great footy but showed he wasn’t able to make those players around him better. Geelong also won a flag just after he left … twice. So hard to judge his actual impact on team success.

Buddy was drafted to a really poor team and was a central figure in multiple flags. But history also tells us he’s played more poor finals than good ones, and when he left the Hawks they won another flag and he didn’t feature in one for Sydney. So a great individual player and superstar for sure, but I’d not select him.

So knowing that flags are what all players crave I’d draft Martin. Remained a one club player. Drafted to a diabolical team. Turned his back on the biggest contract offer in history to be his team’s best and most influential player in a dynasty.

He’s the only player drafted to a historically bad team who was his teams best player in multiple flag winning campaigns.



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[Mr Meow]

For what they’ve actually achieved I’d draft Martin.

GAJ was a superstar, but he was traded to a really poor team for the absolute peak years of his career, and history tells us he was not able to lift them even into finals over a 7-year period, let alone a flag - he played great footy but showed he wasn’t able to make those players around him better. Geelong also won a flag just after he left … twice. So hard to judge his actual impact on team success.

Buddy was drafted to a really poor team and was a central figure in multiple flags. But history also tells us he’s played more poor finals than good ones, and when he left the Hawks they won another flag and he didn’t feature in one for Sydney. So a great individual player and superstar for sure, but I’d not select him.

So knowing that flags are what all players crave I’d draft Martin. Remained a one club player. Drafted to a diabolical team. Turned his back on the biggest contract offer in history to be his team’s best and most influential player in a dynasty.

He’s the only player drafted to a historically bad team who was his teams best player in multiple flag winning campaigns.



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No surprises there.

Martin is 5th on the consensus poll though.

Franklin and Ablett in their own tier, unsurprisingly.

 

[Fadge]

No surprises there.

Are you saying you weren't surprised?

I fell off my chair!

 

[Noidnadroj]

[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji6]" data-quote="Mr Meow" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

No surprises there.

Martin is [emoji6]th on the consensus poll though.

Franklin and Ablett in their own tier, unsurprisingly.

I’d draft the guy who has proven he can take a bottom team with a tragic history to multiple flags, and you wouldn’t.

That’s fine. Don’t stress about my selection.


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[Noidnadroj]

[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]" data-quote="Fadge" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Are you saying you weren't surprised?

I fell off my chair!

Oh Fadge … a guy who voted for a player three years into their career criticising someone who hasn’t voted at all.


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[Mr Meow]

I’d draft the guy who has proven he can take a bottom team with a tragic history to multiple flags, and you wouldn’t.

That’s fine. Don’t stress about my selection.


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You're in a minority with the Martin pick.

Whoops!

Franklin
Ablett
Pavlich
Bontempelli

Just that bit better. Top 5 is a great achievement though.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Where would you place Fyfe? Both Pav and Fyfe were great players.

Below Pav
Fyfes best 3-4 years of footy is top shelf absolute animal.
(If he had Pavs durability this would be a different conversation)
But What Pav did in the team he played in
During the 2000s is next level.
there’s no doubt in my mind if he was recruited to Geelong or st Kilda and had the luxury of playing FF CHF his whole career he would of kicked 1000 goals

 

[Mr Meow]

Below Pav
Fyfes best 3-4 years of footy is top shelf absolute animal.
(If he had Pavs durability this would be a different conversation)
But What Pav did in the team he played in
During the 2000s is next level.
there’s no doubt in my mind if he was recruited to Geelong or st Kilda and had the luxury of playing FF CHF his whole career he would of kicked 1000 goals

Nick Riewoldt played the same number of finals series as Pavlich and he played for St Kilda.

Cam Mooney played the same number of finals series as Pavlich and he played for Geelong.

 

[RUNVS]

No surprises there.

Martin is 5th on the consensus poll though.

Franklin and Ablett in their own tier, unsurprisingly.

I deliberately made it so we could all see who voted for who and it does seem that Martin's votes are less than organic as I think 4 of his 5 votes are from Richmond fans.

Of course in saying that quite a few players are getting votes from fans of their own team, which makes sense as people do naturally prefer players that played for their club but it does need to be factored in when discussing the poll.

 

[Mr Meow]

I deliberately made it so we could all see who voted for who and it does seem that Martin's votes are less than organic as I think 4 of his 5 votes are from Richmond fans.

Of course in saying that quite a few players are getting votes from fans of their own team, which makes sense as people do naturally prefer players that played for their club but it does need to be factored in when discussing the poll.

Good point.

There's only 1 non Richmond supporter vote for Martin so far.

Noidnadroj maybe make a rally call for the supporters from the Herald Sun over/underrated poll?

 

[SSrixon]

Would have loved to have seen Pavlich in Brisbanes team early 2000's or Geelongs side in the late 2000's or even in St Kildas side 2005-2013.

This, if he played in better/higher scoring teams he might have nudged 900 career goals. He also spent some prime years plugging holes in defence and the midfield at didn't he?

 

[Mr Meow]

This, if he played in better/higher scoring teams he might have nudged 900 career goals. He also spent some prime years plugging holes in defence and the midfield at didn't he?

2008 Buddy in Geelongs team that year could have kicked 150 goals.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Franklin or GAJ are the obvious choices.

 

[RUNVS]

Franklin or GAJ are the obvious choices.

I honestly think Scarlett or either Gawn/Cox would be excellent choices too. Having a dominant KPD is very important, as is potentially having a dominant ruckman.

I feel like top quality midfielders are a bit easier to find that the real top quality ruckmen or Key Position players, though in saying that there are more very good KPD's than KPF's.

Also Goodes/Pavlich/Bont are in their own special category.

 

[PhatBoy]

For what they’ve actually achieved I’d draft Martin.

GAJ was a superstar, but he was traded to a really poor team for the absolute peak years of his career, and history tells us he was not able to lift them even into finals over a 7-year period, let alone a flag - he played great footy but showed he wasn’t able to make those players around him better. Geelong also won a flag just after he left … twice. So hard to judge his actual impact on team success.

Buddy was drafted to a really poor team and was a central figure in multiple flags. But history also tells us he’s played more poor finals than good ones, and when he left the Hawks they won another flag and he didn’t feature in one for Sydney. So a great individual player and superstar for sure, but I’d not select him.

So knowing that flags are what all players crave I’d draft Martin. Remained a one club player. Drafted to a diabolical team. Turned his back on the biggest contract offer in history to be his team’s best and most influential player in a dynasty.

He’s the only player drafted to a historically bad team who was his teams best player in multiple flag winning campaigns.



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Pick whoever you want but history also tells us he had them poised for the finals in their fourth season and they were 9-6 with him, and their percentage was 104.5, and 1-6 without him and missed out. They finished 10-12. 13 wins would have gotten them in automatically, 12 plus the right percentage would have gotten them in over your mob.

And guess what? Of the 7 games they had remaining when he got hurt? 6 of them were against teams outside the 8 at the time including the two who were at the bottom, as well as Carlton, the Dogs and Brisbane who would all end up with 7 wins for the season. He had them making finals mate.

the next season he only played 6 games.

The two seasons after that, he played 28 in total and they won 12 of them. The idea that they were horrible is false. After those initial formative seasons, the idea that when he was there, either because of him purely carrying them or because he made the others a bit better, or a combination of both, absolutely holds water.

He had a 32 per cent win record at the Suns. Considering everything they got wrong with recruiting, drafting, the players they put around him, and the fact that it was a brand new club, I don’t think that’s especially terrible.

Tony Lockett’s record at the Saints was 37 per cent. An established, foundation club with established, career players - and he himself a legendary player.

Nathan Jones is hardly in their stratosphere but probably the most loyal Melbourne servant this millennium and as hard as a coffin nail: career win percentage in a team (that yes admittedly deliberately lost at one point) but over a 300 game career his win percentage was 33.

I think the ‘failure to compete’ aspect gets overplayed quite a bit.

 

[Mr Meow]

Pick whoever you want but history also tells us he had them poised for the finals in their fourth season and they were 9-6 with him, and their percentage was 104.5, and 1-6 without him and missed out. They finished 10-12. 13 wins would have gotten them in automatically, 12 plus the right percentage would have gotten them in over your mob.

And guess what? Of the 7 games they had remaining when he got hurt? 6 of them were against teams outside the 8 at the time including the two who were at the bottom, as well as Carlton, the Dogs and Brisbane who would all end up with 7 wins for the season. He had them making finals mate.

the next season he only played 6 games.

The two seasons after that, he played 28 in total and they won 12 of them. The idea that they were horrible is false. After those initial formative seasons, the idea that when he was there, either because of him purely carrying them or because he made the others a bit better, or a combination of both, absolutely holds water.

He had a 32 per cent win record at the Suns. Considering everything they got wrong with recruiting, drafting, the players they put around him, and the fact that it was a brand new club, I don’t think that’s especially terrible.

Tony Lockett’s record at the Saints was 37 per cent. An established, foundation club with established, career players - and he himself a legendary player.

Nathan Jones is hardly in their stratosphere but probably the most loyal Melbourne servant this millennium and as hard as a coffin nail: career win percentage in a team (that yes admittedly deliberately lost at one point) but over a 300 game career his win percentage was 33.

I think the ‘failure to compete’ aspect gets overplayed quite a bit.

I think it's a pretty ludicrous suggestion that putting 2017-2020 Martin in that 2011-2014 Suns side would deliver success, and not vice versa for Richmond getting peak GAJ. Yet you really get the feeling this is what a couple of Richmond extremists believe. It really is lala land.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I think it's a pretty ludicrous suggestion that putting 2017-2020 Martin in that 2011-2014 Suns side would deliver success, and not vice versa for Richmond getting peak GAJ. Yet you really get the feeling this is what a couple of Richmond extremists believe. It really is lala land.

Fair to say that Martin was totally selfless as a player and played for the team. Just happened to be that in finals he not only was the ultimate team man but played to a level that made him exceptional as an individual.

Now I agree it is ludicrous to suggest putting Martin into the Suns would deliver success. No way would I suggest that. On the flip side, I don't think Ablett would have had the same impact to the Tiges as Martin had (particularly in finals where Martin went up a couple of cogs).

We'll never know but I'm comfortable with my view.

 

[Mr Meow]

Fair to say that Martin was totally selfless as a player and played for the team. Just happened to be that in finals he not only was the ultimate team man but played to a level that made him exceptional as an individual.

Now I agree it is ludicrous to suggest putting Martin into the Suns would deliver success. No way would I suggest that. On the flip side, I don't think Ablett would have had the same impact to the Tiges as Martin had (particularly in finals where Martin went up a couple of cogs).

We'll never know but I'm comfortable with my view.

Thankfully it's a view only shared by some fanatical Richmond supporters. It's quite a logical stretch to come up with the idea that peak Ablett wouldn't have had a similar effect on that Richmond side.

Ablett won 2 BnFs, Coaches Association Awards and League MVPs in premiership years as the ultimate team man. Him lifting in 2007 was the main catalyst for the Cats dynasty. Martin was already great in 2016.

 

[threesixpio]

I hate you Buddy

But I love you Buddy

 

[threesixpio]

Tigers supporters are a weird bunch ….

 

[tiger_tough]

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Gawn's a tempting one from a Geelong perspective, just because his ascent to becoming the game's best ruckman aligns perfectly with Dangerfield's arrival and the "not quite good enough" 2016-21 years. Gawn would have been the missing piece to getting at least one premiership over that period.

As far as 'best' I'm not sure, but Gawn's still pretty underrated in that respect.

 

[Mr Meow]

Gawn's a tempting one from a Geelong perspective, just because his ascent to becoming the game's best ruckman aligns perfectly with Dangerfield's arrival and the "not quite good enough" 2016-21 years. Gawn would have been the missing piece to getting at least one premiership over that period.

As far as 'best' I'm not sure, but Gawn's still pretty underrated in that respect.

Perhaps, but also just getting Jeremy Cameron in 2019 probably would've done it.