I'm glad we didn't get Paul Roos

[Slax]

Doesn't sit well with me how people on the lions board have suddenly started to declare things like this. Roos is a premiership winning coach, who is currently in charge of a team that was beyond a mess in 2013. I think it was only twice last year that Melbourne didn't concede over 90 points. So while they might not be playing attractive footy, they're in a transition period where one of their sole focuses is to not be smashed and to at least be competitive and to give their fans some hope. I love having Leppa as our coach, but given the vastly different situation of the Brisbane Lions compared to the Demons coming into 2014, I think it's wrong to declare us as the "winner". #thinklongterm #disregardthecurrentspectacle #hashtag

You're missing a key part of my point here. It's not purely about winning and losing it's about being able to sell the game to the fans in the Brisbane market. What I saw today was terrible, the last quarter was alright, but if wasn't my own team playing I would've walked out at half time the game was that bad. We are a financial mess at the moment and the only real way to fix that is to get bums on seats, serve this up week in week out, which is what Melbourne have been doing most of the year, our crowds would be down at least another 10% on what they are this year which is already 1,000 below last season.

I'm not sure who else actually went to the game, but if you took someone to watch Melbourne play and try and convert them to be an AFL fan you've got no hope. Even Melbourne fans aren't buying it. This year Melbourne have only twice got more than their average crowd attendence from 2012, Bulldogs when highly publicised and only game in Victoria that round and Collingwood on Queen's Birthday, the Brisbane game that year drew 33,473.

I also posted this thread before I saw his comments and that for me only makes me more resolute in my decision. His press conference was all about excuses and blaming past coaches. Is the Melbourne list better than the 2011 list? I think so, but this year they have won less than half the games they did that year. Melbourne have much better forward options than we do, with Dawes and Frawley both better than anything we have, yet they refuse to try and use them, that's a game plan decision not the players.

 

[James North]

Yes he's been very political about the problems that he was left.

He took the job thinking he could do something to help and by suggesting that some of the young men in the Demons won't be able to get over their scars is a poor excuse.

It seems just like the gameplan - overly defensive.

 

[Kevvo]

I remember a few posters earlier in the year lauding Roos's method in teaching Melbourne to do one thing at a time and worrying that Leppa had tried to dump too much on our guys at once. I think now we're seeing the outcome of that.

Melbourne look pretty organised when the opposition have the ball, but it blew my mind how many times they'd get the ball around half back and just have absolutely no idea where to go with it--18 rounds into the season. Having got it, they'd still be too apprehensive to proceed on instinct and it would wind up with Nathan Jones and Dean Terlich essentially pirouetting around with the ball by the boundary a few times.

All of this said, the main reason it's fair to judge Roos harshly is because he very obviously bought into his own messianic qualities.

 

[Slax]

I remember a few posters earlier in the year lauding Roos's method in teaching Melbourne to do one thing at a time and worrying that Leppa had tried to dump too much on our guys at once. I think now we're seeing the outcome of that.

Melbourne look pretty organised when the opposition have the ball, but it blew my mind how many times they'd get the ball around half back and just have absolutely no idea where to go with it--18 rounds into the season. In spite of that, they'd still be too apprehensive to proceed on instinct and it would wind up with Nathan Jones and Dean Terlich essentially pirouetting around with the ball by the boundary a few times.

All of this said, the main reason it's fair to judge Roos harshly is because he very obviously bought into his own messianic qualities.

Agree. A far bit was said after the first few weeks which can be hard to judge due to varying factors (ie draw, injuries, new game plan), but after 18 games you can see if it is working or not and it isn't for Melbourne. Recruiting wise they have also done pretty well also, adding Vince and Tyson to the list, getting Viney back from injury, so the talent pool is there.

 

[Bucking Beads]

SO glad he didn't want to coach the Lions. I hate his stupid hair and his stupid coaching style. You'd never fill the Gabba with his style of coaching.

 

[James North]

SO glad he didn't want to coach the Lions. I hate his stupid hair and his stupid coaching style. You'd never fill the Gabba with his style of coaching.

Nor with that hairstyle.

Nor with the ultra-negative pressers ....

His dismantling of the players’ skill, heart and mind was extraordinary, prompting former St Kilda coach Grant Thomas to take to twitter. ‘’Roosy, anyone sat u down & explained u need to take the good with the bad? Can’t salivate over accolades, then distance yourself from defeat.’’

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/pa...-working-anymore/story-fndv8pdq-1227013322093

 

[Tairy Greene]

Tairy maybe?

Et tu, John?

 

[John]

Et tu, John?

It was a question!

 

[John]

Et tu, John?

You have reminded me as well. I need to dig out my copy of Life and Leisure in Ancient Rome. How did average Romans live out each year, conduct their family life, rear and educate their children? What about slaves in the household? How did people enjoy themselves--did they travel or go to the theatre? And, how were those famed gladiators trained? From a wide variety of sources--writers, inscriptions, papyri, mosaics, stones, even graffiti--the answers to these question come into sharp relief. Sounds so modern.

 

[western royboy]

I didn't want Roos as coach either, would have been quite happy to have kept the incumbent, but I remember at the time something said by our former chairmen, after sacking Voss, who said we were in discussions with an experienced coach ready to take us to the next level........somewhere something got lost. I think some of you are vastly under rating the basket case that melbourne is and was. If that helps justify your view of Roos as a coach, so be it, but I don't agree with it. Have a chat to Beamer or Stefan Martin about what it was like there - it will make your ears bleed. Roos set up Sydney, the way the club and players operate is due to the significant role he played at the club. aesthetically, yep some of his structures are not pretty to watch at times, I'll accept that but you can only work with the players you are given and Melbourne are probably one of the worst sides I've seen in a long while.

But before we get carried away, remember at some point during the last qtr on Sunday - at the worst game I have ever seen at afl level, they were two goals up and in the driving seat. It's fantastic that we won and says more about us than them, but what if we had got rolled?

Roos was a fantastic player, a premiership coach and a straight shooter, judge him when he's done at Melbourne, and beyond that with the legacy he leaves, not now, which is a significant improvement on what he inherited.

 

[patfullfankezz]

Even if we had lost, I'm glad we didn't get Roos, and was fully against the appointment from the start. I know everyone will roll their eyes, but my gut was screaming "NO NO NO NO NO!".

His heart isn't with us anymore.

 

[luthor]

They really stuffed it up on AFL 360 last night.

Near the end of the game, Rooswatch camera caught the Messiah looking like a park-bench drunk on a a particularly bad day

Huddo (or was it Robbo?) made the keen observation that for the first time in living memory, Roos' hair look un-ruffled.

 

[western royboy]

Even if we had lost, I'm glad we didn't get Roos, and was fully against the appointment from the start. I know everyone will roll their eyes, but my gut was screaming "NO NO NO NO NO!".

His heart isn't with us anymore.

I think people read to much into the crap spun by a person at the sacking of our former coach, Roos was never interested in moving to Brisbane and we certainly weren't looking for a transition coach.

 

[patfullfankezz]

I think people read to much into the crap spun by a person at the sacking of our former coach, Roos was never interested in moving to Brisbane and we certainly weren't looking for a transition coach.

I think anyone with a decent dollop of common sense could see from the moment Voss was sacked that Angus had ballsed it up good and proper. I blame the rest of the Board too, something like that should have seen the other Board members talk to Roos as well. They did not do their due dilligence and thankfully it hasn't backfired (praise be to Leppa).

 

[QLDatHEART]

Serious question here - what has Roos done in the past 20 years to justify the hype? One flag (won off the back of one quarter of brilliance by Davis) and a defensive, stifling and probably outdated gameplan does not = messiah IMO. I will admit I was keen on getting him to the Lions after the Voss debacle but the more I think about it the harder it becomes to understand the hype.

1)He built an amazing culture at Swans.
2) He has the abilty to get the best out players.
3) He implemented great leadership structures both on and off the field.
4)He left the job well unlike most coaches who are fired.
5) He was a Lion great!!

But..... I wouldn't have him now. Love Leppa. He can have the bloody Dees.

 

[Football Pope]

I think people read to much into the crap spun by a person at the sacking of our former coach, Roos was never interested in moving to Brisbane and we certainly weren't looking for a transition coach.

Yeah....and talking about crap spun..This is the second time, that, Garry Lyon's perceived measure of Melbourne's success has been set as their home games against us....(The opening round the week after Stynes death...and Sundays game)...Both games had the Melbourne faithful up and about and cocky prior........ Then afterwards as the grim reality sets in.... The questioning of the coach and players begins.. Although Roos has come out firing on all the "tanks" cylinders... he has the look of a man resigned to the fact it aint working....

 

[western royboy]

Yeah....and talking about crap spun..This is the second time, that, Garry Lyon's perceived measure of Melbourne's success has been set as their home games against us....(The opening round the week after Stynes death...and Sundays game)...Both games had the Melbourne faithful up and about and cocky prior........ Then afterwards as the grim reality sets in.... The questioning of the coach and players begins.. Although Roos has come out firing on all the "tanks" cylinders... he has the look of a man resigned to the fact it aint working....

I think Roos will work, I think there will be a fairly large delisting / trading process at the end of the year.

 

[dlanod]

Yeah....and talking about crap spun..This is the second time, that, Garry Lyon's perceived measure of Melbourne's success has been set as their home games against us....(The opening round the week after Stynes death...and Sundays game)...Both games had the Melbourne faithful up and about and cocky prior........ Then afterwards as the grim reality sets in.... The questioning of the coach and players begins.. Although Roos has come out firing on all the "tanks" cylinders... he has the look of a man resigned to the fact it aint working....

I don't know why the hell Lyon is still well-regarded down there but every time I see him associated with anything Melbourne he manages to just make things worse. He avoids getting involved in sorting anything out, he's only willing to take pot shots from the side, and when he does get involved he manages to **** it up.

 

[Slax]

1)He built an amazing culture at Swans.
2) He has the abilty to get the best out players.
3) He implemented great leadership structures both on and off the field.
4)He left the job well unlike most coaches who are fired.
5) He was a Lion great!!

But..... I wouldn't have him now. Love Leppa. He can have the bloody Dees.

1) Culture is built by more than one man, it is built from the President and board, through the CEO and the football manager, without everyone at the club working together you will never build a strong culture. Geelong has achieved it through Frank Costa working with Brian Cook, Neil Balme as well as Bomber & Scott. I'd actually say it is more important to get the President, CEO & Football director right than the coach if you want a strong culture.
2) He's definitely not getting the best out of the Melbourne players at the moment and that is what I'm judging him on now.
3) Think what you may, but one of the biggest factors in the culture built at Brisbane during our era at the top and now Sydney's is actually Andrew Ireland not the coach.
4) That just means he knew when to walk away. Remember Malcolm Blight walked away from Adelaide shortly after back-to-back premierships, then was lured back by St Kilda and big dollars. Same thing has happened with Roos, let's see how it ends up though.
5) Even better reason not to hire him. Voss was a Lions great, Bernie Quinland was a Lions great, Roger Merrett was a Bears great, we all know what happened to those three. If you need more examples of why not to hire club legends just look around, the number of club legends who have ended up finishing there coaching careers at the clubs they played on good terms is very few. Refer - Kevin Bartlett, Peter Knights, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Primus, I can go on for half a page if you want.

 

[Ironmonger]

I think Roos will work, I think there will be a fairly large delisting / trading process at the end of the year.

I assumed that would happen too, but now I'm thinking it might be staggered over a couple of years. I reckon the first step was making the club competitive before beginning the renewal in earnest, but they're not at that stage yet.

And many of the players who might've been moved on, like Dunn, Jetta and Pedersen, have done enough to get another chance. From memory I think there were a few re-signings earlier in the year involving those sort of players.

Still, the likes of Clisby, Nicholson and Strauss are surely gone at the end of the year.

 

[QLDatHEART]

1) Culture is built by more than one man, it is built from the President and board, through the CEO and the football manager, without everyone at the club working together you will never build a strong culture. Geelong has achieved it through Frank Costa working with Brian Cook, Neil Balme as well as Bomber & Scott. I'd actually say it is more important to get the President, CEO & Football director right than the coach if you want a strong culture.
2) He's definitely not getting the best out of the Melbourne players at the moment and that is what I'm judging him on now.
3) Think what you may, but one of the biggest factors in the culture built at Brisbane during our era at the top and now Sydney's is actually Andrew Ireland not the coach.
4) That just means he knew when to walk away. Remember Malcolm Blight walked away from Adelaide shortly after back-to-back premierships, then was lured back by St Kilda and big dollars. Same thing has happened with Roos, let's see how it ends up though.
5) Even better reason not to hire him. Voss was a Lions great, Bernie Quinland was a Lions great, Roger Merrett was a Bears great, we all know what happened to those three. If you need more examples of why not to hire club legends just look around, the number of club legends who have ended up finishing there coaching careers at the clubs they played on good terms is very few. Refer - Kevin Bartlett, Peter Knights, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Matthew Primus, I can go on for half a page if you want.

The people inside footy circles disagree with most of your post. All feedback from the footy world is that Roos is an A grade coach. To judge him on his Melbourne efforts are really short sighted.
Melbourne are a shambles. He has stopped the floggings..... what more can you do in under a season???


Anyway.... I'm glad he's not our coach as I think Leppa suits our clubs needs more than Roos

 

[matwt73]

I reckon the first step was making the club competitive before beginning the renewal in earnest, but they're not at that stage yet.

And I think the first step to that was making them hard to beat.

He has succeeded there, at the very least he has made them harder to beat. It was always going to be a big job in melbourne. Perhaps bigger than roos realised, and I think his MElbourne Legacy will depend on what he leaves after three years and how the next guy can build on it because I can't see finals in Roos's time there.

 

[Happy_Neale]

1)He built an amazing culture at Swans.
2) He has the abilty to get the best out players.
3) He implemented great leadership structures both on and off the field.
4)He left the job well unlike most coaches who are fired.
5) He was a Lion great!!

But..... I wouldn't have him now. Love Leppa. He can have the bloody Dees.

I would dispute 1&3 were solely due to Roos. As for getting the best out of the players he had a game plan which strangled the opposition, in the flag year they were the third lowest scoring team in the comp despite having a pretty good forward line. But yes I see what you mean, just not sure he has done all that much to deserve the hype personally.

Also love Leppa and have really got fully on board the past 6 weeks or so.

 

[Slax]

The people inside footy circles disagree with most of your post. All feedback from the footy world is that Roos is an A grade coach. To judge him on his Melbourne efforts are really short sighted.
Melbourne are a shambles. He has stopped the floggings..... what more can you do in under a season???


Anyway.... I'm glad he's not our coach as I think Leppa suits our clubs needs more than Roos

Paul Roos is an A grade coach, you don't win a Premiership and make another GF if you're not. I just feel that there are some people who think that it was Paul Roos alone who turned around the Swans and built them to what they are today, which is absolute crap. He was an integral part of it all but without the work also being done by Ireland and the board he never would of achieved anything.

I also feel that we also could land a comporable coach to Roos, Lepper mightn't have the runs on the board, but it doesn't mean he can't coach. It will also mean that we don't have overnight expectations in some quarters that we would be successful immediately. It is going to be a 3 year project to get us to be a finals contender and 5 to be a top 4 contender all going well.

To be a successful club you need to have 4 key pillars intact and I haven't seen very many sides win one without all four
1. Top coach - I like Lepper so hopefully a tick
2. Top CEO - Swan is a tick
3. Good football director - Leigh Mathews, tick
4. A cohesive board - big cross here. It might of improved this year, but still a long way from satisfactory.

Look at Geelong, Sydney, Hawthorn, all tick these boxes and that is why they have been successful in recent years. St Kilda did have it until a couple of years ago, but with Ross Lyon going the board started infighting again and look at what has happened in two years.

 

[Ironmonger]

And I think the first step to that was making them hard to beat.

He has succeeded there, at the very least he has made them harder to beat. It was always going to be a big job in melbourne. Perhaps bigger than roos realised, and I think his MElbourne Legacy will depend on what he leaves after three years and how the next guy can build on it because I can't see finals in Roos's time there.

That gets to the crux of the debate going on at the moment - at what point do we stop comparing the 2014 Demons to the 2013 Demons? If you're getting overwhelming by one decent quarter from an injury-ravaged, bottom four, interstate side in Melbourne how hard to beat are you really?

But the more I think about it, I'm not sure what more Roos can really do. The list is terrible, and adding a couple of mature players in the off-season only made it slightly less terrible. And I don't see it getting a lot better by next season, even with a severe cleanout. Their list is chock full of limited players. Even some of their promising kids, like Kent and Kennedy-Harris, probably don't have all that much upside.

They probably need a priority pick. But a bunch of other teams (including us) have been frozen out of too many top picks lately for that to be palatable.