Independent report into Hobart's proposed new stadium has found the costs of the project have been significantly underestimated

[Bjo187]

The inner west is Swans territory. Footy is strong there but it is all Swans. In fact you won’t find anywhere in Sydney where the Giants are more popular than the Swans.

That's to be expected really considering the swans have been around 4x the amount of time.

It's like going up to a West Coast Eagles fan in Freos 12th year in the competition and saying "did you know that West Coast is bigger than Freo in most parts of Perth"?

 

[Saucery]

"...it's probably not finished until 2029 or 2030."

"A conversation with the AFL would make sense in terms of how those two years would be dealt with"

Even Though Gutters is still spinning the $hit out of it at least he now admits the time frame is impossible. Thats a tick for the Gruen report.

'It's obvious' Hobart stadium won't be built in time, former premier says

Former premier and now Northern Tasmanian Football Association president Peter Gutwein says it would be reasonable for the state government to "have a conversation with the AFL" over the timeline.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Bjo187]

Wow, $4.5 mill lol it's literally nothing to a state government, in fact it's likely what they calculated it will cost the devils in revenue whilst playing out of a shitbox bellreive stadium, instead of a new one. Also the money goes to the devils not the afl. The abc really have an anti afl agenda going on.

 

[HairyO]

Yes this is unions fault ignore their party hasn't been in government for 11 years and the Liberals wanted to do it

So the hourly rates for everyone will be on par with the private sector?

 

[T2B_]

Very very poor analysis to think day 1 crowds matters in a long term team.

Giants and GC will be much bigger than Tassy in the long term

But nowhere near as passionate

 

[T2B_]

"...it's probably not finished until 2029 or 2030."

"A conversation with the AFL would make sense in terms of how those two years would be dealt with"

Even Though Gutters is still spinning the $hit out of it at least he now admits the time frame is impossible. Thats a tick for the Gruen report.

'It's obvious' Hobart stadium won't be built in time, former premier says

Former premier and now Northern Tasmanian Football Association president Peter Gutwein says it would be reasonable for the state government to "have a conversation with the AFL" over the timeline.

www.abc.net.au

You really do seem to be death riding this whole thing and getting all political. I bet you're one of those people getting around with "No $tadium" plastered on the back window of your car (which I'm always tempted to slap a Yes over when I see them).

 

[Kappa]

But nowhere near as passionate

If you fast forward 30 years I think Gc and GWS will be generating profits while Tasmania will be stuck around north Melbourne level and gradually get smaller as their population growth is much smaller than other states

 

[Walshawk]

That's to be expected really considering the swans have been around 4x the amount of time.

It's like going up to a West Coast Eagles fan in Freos 12th year in the competition and saying "did you know that West Coast is bigger than Freo in most parts of Perth"?

I said ALL parts of Sydney. I was responding to a post saying that the Giants are concentrating in the Inner West which is simply not true. My other point is that any growth of the code in Sydney is 99% due to the Swans and would have happened anyway even if the Giants never existed.

I bet Freo are more popular than West Coast in Fremantle. Or maybe not.

 

[Saucery]

You really do seem to be death riding this whole thing and getting all political. I bet you're one of those people getting around with "No $tadium" plastered on the back window of your car (which I'm always tempted to slap a Yes over when I see them).

I bought two foundation memberships, one for me and one for my brother. No stickers at all on my car, I prefer people to make their own minds up. I'm not death riding the stadium idea at all, but we got screwed on the deal, and if the AFL and the government don't allay peoples fears I don't believe the current proposal will pass parliament.

 

[Kappa]

I said ALL parts of Sydney. I was responding to a post saying that the Giants are concentrating in the Inner West which is simply not true. My other point is that any growth of the code in Sydney is 99% due to the Swans and would have happened anyway even if the Giants never existed.

I bet Freo are more popular than West Coast in Fremantle. Or maybe not.

If you don’t think a Sydney derby has contributed to the growth of footy in nsw I think that’s very naive.

 

[Saucery]

Wow, $4.5 mill lol it's literally nothing to a state government, in fact it's likely what they calculated it will cost the devils in revenue whilst playing out of a shitbox bellreive stadium, instead of a new one. Also the money goes to the devils not the afl. The abc really have an anti afl agenda going on.

The $4.5 million fine was always there, for failure to complete progress on time. There's another $4.5 million for each extra year. It's not much in the scheme of things and the AFL can waive those requirements under the current agreement if they choose. It's one of the many demands that people are wanting renegotiated.

As for the state of Bellerive Oval I can't comment. I only drive down to Hobart once or twice a year and have never been there. Few people from the north go south much, unless to visit family. There's nothing down there other than a few more shops. If you really want to shop in a capital city Melbourne is just 1 hour away from Launceston by plane and leaves Hobart for dead in every way.

Where the money goes is kind of irrelevant, the Devils franchise is part of the AFL, like Bunnings is part of Wesfarmers. And as for the ABC being biased it's probably because other than the Murdoc media there is no other reporting of what happens in this state. Though even they have published critical material of late, calling the Dr Gruen report 'damming'. If that's not editorializing I don't know what is.

‘Stick it’: Senator shreds ‘dud’ AFL deal as damning report reveals Tassie stadium concerns

‘Stick it’: Senator shreds ‘dud’ AFL deal as damning report reveals Tassie stadium concerns

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Bjo187]

I said ALL parts of Sydney. I was responding to a post saying that the Giants are concentrating in the Inner West which is simply not true. My other point is that any growth of the code in Sydney is 99% due to the Swans and would have happened anyway even if the Giants never existed.

Well the giants women's team play regularly outta Henson park which is in fact, inner west. So there and also up in the hills region too, I'm sure they've gained some supporters. In addition to places like Blacktown of course which has their highest number of club members.

The swans are bigger due to the giants, the same as the lions are bigger due to the suns. This year's final was epic and gets more wide spread attention in Sydney, than a final against an interstate side.

I bet Freo are more popular than West Coast in Fremantle. Or maybe not.

Well I'm sure after being in the competition for 30 years like Fremantle, the Giants will be more popular in Parramatta than the Swans.

 

[Bjo187]

The $4.5 million fine was always there, for failure to complete progress on time. There's another $4.5 million for each extra year. It's not much in the scheme of things and the AFL can waive those requirements under the current agreement if they choose. It's one of the many demands that people are wanting renegotiated.

As for the state of Bellerive Oval I can't comment. I only drive down to Hobart once or twice a year and have never been there. Few people from the north go south much, unless to visit family. There's nothing down there other than a few more shops. If you really want to shop in a capital city Melbourne is just 1 hour away from Launceston by plane and leaves Hobart for dead in every way.

Where the money goes is kind of irrelevant, the Devils franchise is part of the AFL, like Bunnings is part of Wesfarmers. And as for the ABC being biased it's probably because other than the Murdoc media there is no other reporting of what happens in this state. Though even they have published critical material of late, calling the Dr Gruen report 'damming'.

‘Stick it’: Senator shreds ‘dud’ AFL deal as damning report reveals Tassie stadium concerns

‘Stick it’: Senator shreds ‘dud’ AFL deal as damning report reveals Tassie stadium concerns

www.foxsports.com.au

So you're suggesting that they should not be held accountable for a breach of contract that they agreed upon so that the club is actually viable?

Even though the penalty is a slap across the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf? And it could affect the club via the lack of revenue they make playing out of an inadequate stadium?

What motivation would there be to even build the stadium then and not just put it in the too hard basket once the club is playing in the afl?

Also news corp are traditionally afl haters, try reading news.com.au, it may as well be called nrlnews.com.au, their northern papers actively try and ridicule and belittle the afl clubs up there, the daily telegraph in particular is famous for it.

 

[Saucery]

So you're suggesting that they should not be held accountable for a breach of contract that they agreed upon so that the club is actually viable?

Even though the penalty is a slap across the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf? And it could affect the club via the lack of revenue they make playing out of an inadequate stadium?

What motivation would there be to even build the stadium then and not just put it in the too hard basket once the club is playing in the afl?

Also news corp are traditionally afl haters, try reading news.com.au, it may as well be called nrlnews.com.au, their northern papers actively try and ridicule and belittle the afl clubs up there, the daily telegraph in particular is famous for it.

OK, if you say so.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Why does this thing have to have a roof?

Last I checked, AFL was a winter sport that could be played in wet weather.

Hobart gets less rain than Melbourne anyway

 

[T2B_]

If you fast forward 30 years I think Gc and GWS will be generating profits while Tasmania will be stuck around north Melbourne level and gradually get smaller as their population growth is much smaller than other states

I think the opposite but anyway no one will know until it all plays out.

 

[Black Diamond]

I think that when a decision is so big that it will take literally generations to pay off it needs to be much more heavily, publicly scrutinized…

Doesn’t happen in this country.

 

[Saucery]

If you fast forward 30 years I think Gc and GWS will be generating profits while Tasmania will be stuck around north Melbourne level and gradually get smaller as their population growth is much smaller than other states

This is true, Tasmania has a population growth rate of around 0.3% compared to the national average of 2%. Internal market growth is minimal (and that's how we like it to be honest).

 

[Cleavy]

tell the AFL to foot the bill for the difference since they want the stadium so badly

 

[nobbyiscool]

If you fast forward 30 years I think Gc and GWS will be generating profits while Tasmania will be stuck around north Melbourne level and gradually get smaller as their population growth is much smaller than other states

I mean, why rely on a shit ton of research that predicated the Tassie decision when we have your general vibe on it?

 

[Walshawk]

If you don’t think a Sydney derby has contributed to the growth of footy in nsw I think that’s very naive.

The Giants are not even one of the Swans biggest drawing opponents.

 

[Fire]

tell the AFL to foot the bill for the difference since they want the stadium so badly

Then there is no Tasmanian team.

Remember, they approached the AFL. The AFL is not trying to get a team there. If Tasmania no longer want it, then everyone leaves happy.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The way I see it is that in a cold, dispassionate sense, the AFL has no business expanding into Tassie.

It won’t win new fans in the short or long term - they’re already footy mad and the population growth just isn’t big enough to add more people for what the cost will be.

This is an emotion-driven move aimed at being inclusive of a great footy state.

It will be hard. Setting up a new club (aside from the stadium) is expensive and hard to get a return on. And they absolutely will have retention and recruiting issues - young people are not moving to Tassie with any great eagerness. It’s a country outpost compared to the other clubs.

So given it’ll be a battle, the AFL want to make every last post a winner to give the club the best chance possible.

The stadium is a huge part of that. You want people to want to go there in the dead of winter. You want travelling supporters to go and have a great weekend and return next year to pump so more cash into the club. You want it dead simple to get to from the middle of town, with something to do before and/or after around it. You want to have night footy where the crowd isn’t completely exposed to subzero temps, sleet and rain.

The last thing you want is to put this club on the back foot from Day 1. Sending people on a trek to bloody Bellerive with an old, freezing stadium with nothing surrounding it. Because next time, when it’s a cold night and the couch is calling, they won’t come. Travelling supporters won’t return.

And the club will have more disadvantage.

Stadium experiences make a huge difference, as Adelaide and Perth have shown. A lot of major stadiums are now roofed and with a winter climate like Hobart’s, that’s a no brainer.

Basically, if the fed and state government want this then they need to pay up and do it properly. I don’t see that as totally unreasonable in this case.

Plus, when you park the nostalgia of Baldock, Stewart, Hart, Hudson, Roach and Richo and consider how few genuine quality current AFL players hail from Tassie, to my mind they're going to have at least as many issues with prized draftees wanting to 'go home' within a couple of years as Gold Coast/GWS have had, maybe even more. Given I can probably guess what a late-teen/early-20s kid would probably choose if asked whether they want to move to the Gold Coast, Sydney, or Hobart for work.

 

[Sphynx]

Consultants and unions would be horrified at suggestions that they would be the reason.

The end cost is their fault.

They are only "blowouts" because state governments regularly underquote public works to manipulate public opinion.

What would have the reaction been in Tassie had they come out and declared the stadium cost as $1.2b? There was enough public backlash with a figure of half its cost.

They get these projects underway, have no way of accurately reporting end costs during it's construction then declare the real cost 2-3 years down the track in review after the fact.

Standard political manipulation.

Then every gullible person buys it and falls for "project cost blowouts"

This stadium was always going to cost $1b+, I've seen the initial budgetary architectural plans for the stadium.

It's clad in Tassie Oak.

90% of the labor is going to FIFO from Victoria also, as there are no companies on the Island big enough to service a project of this size and none of them are CFMEU signatories and this will be a major national project.

The CFMEU entity that controls Tassie's EBA's fall under CFMEU VIC/TAS also.

The main beneficiaries from it's construction will be Victorian companies.

This will be the most expensive stadium per seat in the country, easily.

No other stadium like it has had to fly in the majority of it's workforce with living away from home wage allowances, lodgings etc.

It's more comparable to a major offshore Gas project or remote mining project tbh.

It sounds silly when talking about a capital city of a state in the commonwealth of this country, however blame the left/ALP for the strength of the trade unions in this country which is next level to just about anywhere on the planet.

 

[nobbyiscool]

The end cost is their fault.

They are only "blowouts" because state governments regularly underquote public works to manipulate public opinion.

What would have the reaction been in Tassie had they come out and declared the stadium cost as $1.2b? There was enough public backlash with a figure of half its cost.

They get these projects underway, have no way of accurately reporting end costs during it's construction then declare the real cost 2-3 years down the track in review after the fact.

Standard political manipulation.

Then every gullible person buys it and falls for "project cost blowouts"

This stadium was always going to cost $1b+, I've seen the initial budgetary architectural plans for the stadium.

It's clad in Tassie Oak.

90% of the labor is going to FIFO from Victoria also, as there are no companies on the Island big enough to service a project of this size and none of them are CFMEU signatories and this will be a major national project.

The CFMEU entity that controls Tassie's EBA's fall under CFMEU VIC/TAS also.

The main beneficiaries from it's construction will be Victorian companies.

This will be the most expensive stadium per seat in the country, easily.

No other stadium like it has had to fly in the majority of it's workforce with living away from home wage allowances, lodgings etc.

It's more comparable to a major offshore Gas project or remote mining project tbh.

It sounds silly when talking about a capital city of a state in the commonwealth of this country, however blame the left/ALP for the strength of the trade unions in this country which is next level to just about anywhere on the planet.

Think there are some similarities with the Townsville Stadium, which was built super cheap despite the FIFO requirements