International Rules 2011

[Gman12]

EVERY SKILL IN GAELIC that could potentially disadvantage the Australian side is present,

I know I am only picking one part of your long post, but I just wanted to highlight it, because you clearly do not know the rules of Gaelic football, or know enough about it.

skills in gaeilic that would hinder the aussies.
We have to pick the ball up off the ground with our foot. you can not lift it clean off the ground.
fress kicks from what would be the 45 (what we award instead of a rushed behind) have to be kicked off the ground.
all kick in restarts have to be taken off the ground.
you can only bounce the ball once, before having to toe tap it.
you can not play on from free kicks, you must restart every free with a kick and be 13m away to receive the kick
no interchange, only 5 designated changes throughout a game
you can only run 4 steps with the ball before bouncing or toe tapping
and I wont even mention the tackle.

now granted, the IR series is probably weighted in our favour, but not to the extent that I keep hearing about. I have to listen to rubbish from our side who say its far too much AFL orientated and the likes of Robinsons 'tackle' the other day was rough, and I have to explain how AFL is completley focused on head over the ball and attacking it, whereas ours is to kick it out of danger and then pick it up. and putting the boot in in AFL is a big no no, yet it is customary in gaelic.

also, your point about limited handballs is completley and utterly off the mark. AFL kick to handball ratio is pretty high, whereas in Gaelic, handpass to kick is nearly 6:1, handpassing is used far more in Gaelic than it is in AFL. I actually dont understand the logic in that rule in IR, as it isnt part of either code.

 

[Tex_21]

Could be wrong, but didn't the limit on handballs come in after Sheedy was coach, and brought a team of runners in, that kicked very very infrequently, and just ran and handballed, minimising skill errors. From memory the series was won fairly comfortably. 2005 maybe?

 

[Gman12]

The Irish are a very fit looking, bigger stronger team, with a liberal sprinkling of past and present AFL players, and given current AFL rules where you earn a free kick if anybody dares to touch you (thats a whole other thread).

Call me a troll if you want, but I repeat, against the team we put out, the Irish would have won under AFL rules.

would completley and utterly disagree with that. its deluded to think so. Irish players take a long time to get adapted to AFL, and not all of them cna take to it.

Could be wrong, but didn't the limit on handballs come in after Sheedy was coach, and brought a team of runners in, that kicked very very infrequently, and just ran and handballed, minimising skill errors. From memory the series was won fairly comfortably. 2005 maybe?

could well have been. but I really dont see a benefit to it for either side.

 

[Horsebox]

There's a very good reason the Australians dominated back in the mid-20th century when IR was played under all-Gaelic rules (save for dribbling). If you couldn't stop for a mark, the game would be in perpetual movement and their superior fitness and capacity to push up the ground would come to the fore, and this would be highlighted even further if tackling was omitted. With the amount of ground AFL players cover these days, on massive grounds, the amount of training they do, there's no way the Irish could compete as well. The ONLY change there that wouldn't advantage Australia is the dribbling style. It is the only thing that legitimately doesn't translate. The tackling is no longer much of an issue, because the degree to which it can be used has been scaled back to the point that the Australians employ little to no physicality.

You are so far off the mark you're on a different planet. Firstly, gaelic football players now are extremely fit. Not AFL fit, but pretty damn fit nonetheless. The modern game requires serious running ability and none of the Irish guys that head over struggle with the aerobic side of things, it's the contact that kills them. Which leads me to my next point. The tackle is completely alien to the Irish lads. To somehow suggest that the rule actually benefits us is completely insane.

As for the 'dribbling style', gaelic players pretty much never dribble the ball on the ground. It's actually seriously frowned upon (particularly by the older generations). People here were not one bit impressed with the soccer tactics last year as they have nothing to do with gaelic football. Some of our guys might play a bit of soccer in the off-season or play 5-a-side with their mates but some of your guys probably do that too.

To be honest, like most posters here, you don't seem to have the slightest clue about gaelic football. You see a round ball and that's pretty much it. I think of myself as a sports fan so I go out of my way to try and understand other games. It really doesn't seem like that many here do the same. I watch the AFL highlights package we get here and I follow the progress of the Irish boys keenly. And before you say "We don't care about gaelic football", that's perfectly ok. You don't have to. But you should probably preface all your comments about the IR rules being the same as gaelic football rules with that statement.

 

[Gaffanator]

None of them are spuds at AFL level, they are all decent players. However, they are either still too young, or just below the top echelon of players e.g. Kelly and Vince, or are only average players at best anyway e.g. King and Nahas. Spuds is becoming a term way too commonly used to describe average to ok AFL players these days.

Wasn't Kelly in the top 10 of Mike Sheehan's top 50? Probably means he's top echelon.

 

[tazhawk]

The Irish are a very fit looking, bigger stronger team, with a liberal sprinkling of past and present AFL players, and given current AFL rules where you earn a free kick if anybody dares to touch you (thats a whole other thread).

Call me a troll if you want, but I repeat, against the team we put out, the Irish would have won under AFL rules.

I assume by playing AFL rules you mean playing with our football.

Dude that side would have won by about 47 goals with an AFL footy in their hands.

Shit Suckling would have kicked 5 goals from full back.

 

[amer]

You are so far off the mark you're on a different planet. Firstly, gaelic football players now are extremely fit. Not AFL fit, but pretty damn fit nonetheless. The modern game requires serious running ability and none of the Irish guys that head over struggle with the aerobic side of things, it's the contact that kills them. Which leads me to my next point. The tackle is completely alien to the Irish lads. To somehow suggest that the rule actually benefits us is completely insane.

As for the 'dribbling style', gaelic players pretty much never dribble the ball on the ground. It's actually seriously frowned upon (particularly by the older generations). People here were not one bit impressed with the soccer tactics last year as they have nothing to do with gaelic football. Some of our guys might play a bit of soccer in the off-season or play 5-a-side with their mates but some of your guys probably do that too.

To be honest, like most posters here, you don't seem to have the slightest clue about gaelic football. You see a round ball and that's pretty much it. I think of myself as a sports fan so I go out of my way to try and understand other games. It really doesn't seem like that many here do the same. I watch the AFL highlights package we get here and I follow the progress of the Irish boys keenly. And before you say "We don't care about gaelic football", that's perfectly ok. You don't have to. But you should probably preface all your comments about the IR rules being the same as gaelic football rules with that statement.

Firstly to the part in bold, you need to reassess what I meant by dribbling. Chipping the ball back to oneself while running with it in hand. It's why I made such awfully concerted effort to connote my expression with the inclusion of the term style.

The degree to which tackling has been scaled back means it's no longer a significant advantage to the Australians. Nowhere did I state that tackling in isolation advantages the Irish. The tendency away from perpetual movement does though, relative. Two variable conditioning.

 

[phantom13]

Could be wrong, but didn't the limit on handballs come in after Sheedy was coach, and brought a team of runners in, that kicked very very infrequently, and just ran and handballed, minimising skill errors. From memory the series was won fairly comfortably. 2005 maybe?

Yeh pretty sure it was, which is interesting because the cause of the rule changes was to even the competition up, which is fine and actually preferable to having overly one sided games, but it will be interesting to see if they will do it in reverse now that the irish flogged us on Friday.

 

[wriggsey]

I have played both AFL and Gaelic at Amateur level and I didn't find the players in either game any tougher than the other. The difference is the tackle, it's foreign to the Irish boys and there are like everything techniques. If the Irish tackle their is a good chance that they or the opponents will get hurt because they don't actually know how to execute it properly. If they are being tackled they are unsure how to defend themselves. Saying that what the Australian did in previous tests would not be tolerated in AFL, so that whole argument about being tough this tough that is out the window. What went on had nothing to do with football and had very little to do with toughness. If you look through any old clips you will see Australians taking out Irish players pinning them on the ground while 3 or 4 of the Australians team-mates come in and give him a hand. Lots of late and high stuff that would not be accepted in AFL. So basically the Australians did go out to play tough football they basically acted like beefed up tugs. The Irish have stated time and time again that they are not afraid of the tackle but the tackles must be executed within the laws of the game. This certainly was not the case. I think the Australians are constantly using the tackle as an excuse to beat up the Irish teams because they are well aware it's probably the only way they can win. The ball keeps coming up yet there have been years where the Australians have managed to look better with the ball than the Irish so to me this is just an excuse. This time around they did not show respect to the game and did not prepare like professionals. Very embarassing really!

 

[cos789]

The reason Ireland won is easy - they sent a balanced team that trained for six weeks. The reason why Australia was thrashed is easy - five days training, no experienced players. no goalie, no players with a hard edge(typically experienced players).
The two teams are still playing under the same rules as Australia won quite convincingly in Ireland, last time.

 

[wriggsey]

Just to add the argument comes up that the game is basically Gaelic football. This is actually so untrue. Other that the ball, the fact there is a goal and the shape of the pitch it's actually basically Australian Rules.Consider that the shape of the pitch shouldn't really matter to anybody. Here are a list of things the Irish have to contend with:
1. The Tackle
2. The Mark
3. You can pick the ball straight off the ground (Irish have to put foot under it)
4. 20 minute quarters (the Irish game is less time)
5. You can take up to 10 steps without bouncing (Irish only allow 5)
6. The concept of the outer posts
The first 2 to me even out the round ball on it's own. It's very difficult for the Irish to stop for a Mark, throw in the tackle and it makes it extremely difficult.
Some rules that maybe different are the kicking in of the sideline ball but this should not be a disadvantage to anybody. The restriction of only 4 hand passes in a row is foreign to both team. Alot of Australians say they don't want this game anymore, large sections of the Irish have the same opinion. Also soccer type skills are seldom used in Gaelic the reason you see this in the Rules is to avert being tackled.

 

[TD05]

The Australian side doesn't have much depth. Their pretty much all second-tier players

 

[wriggsey]

Stop with the excuses. The Irish are missing lots of players because their clubs are still playing back home. Also there are plenty of players who are pretty big stars back in Ireland who don't get picked because they don't suit the game. Eade basically accused the Irish of not letting their game change in the last 100 years. Another really ignorant comment. The Irish games has probably changed more that the Australian game in the past 20 years. They even tried a form of the Mark out last year in their League to see how it would go. They own Croke Park in Ireland for God Sake and lots of other decent stadiums across Ireland. They are actually alot more advanced that AFL in relation to their structures despite being amateur. That's the thing there is a lack of respect from the AFL the minute the word amateur comes into it. The Irish players definitely get more respect from me that any of the Australians. Corny as it may sound they do play for the love of the game.

 

[cos789]

the pitch it's actually basically Australian Rules..

You're Irish undoubtedly.The IR pitch is a GAA pitch.
An AFL ground is oval, much longer and much wider.

1. No Tackle - but you still challenge in GAA
2. The Mark - gives you a breather and of no advantage to us as we cannot judge the round ball.
3. Irish have to put foot under it - common approach as to AR.
4. 20 minute quarters - a fitness thing.
5. You can take up to 10 steps without bouncing - a little pedantic
6. The concept of the outer posts - "behind" posts in AR are included as a tiebreaker function ,the fact they are included in IR is needed because we cannot kick the round ball accurately.

AR is played on a huge ground. It depends on long accurate kick passes interspersed with a series of running and handpassing movements. In IR we can do neither. We have to constantly chip the ball around and though we do chip the ball around in part it is virtually impossible to score using this as you're only startegy.

 

[cos789]

The Irish are missing lots of players because their clubs are still playing back home.

Missing our top AFL players means little because we pick a team to play IR not AR.

 

[longsuffreosupp]

What's BBBBarry Hall doing this weekend?

 

[phantom13]

Just to add the argument comes up that the game is basically Gaelic football. This is actually so untrue. Other that the ball, the fact there is a goal and the shape of the pitch it's actually basically Australian Rules.Consider that the shape of the pitch shouldn't really matter to anybody. Here are a list of things the Irish have to contend with:
1. The Tackle
2. The Mark
3. You can pick the ball straight off the ground (Irish have to put foot under it)
4. 20 minute quarters (the Irish game is less time)
5. You can take up to 10 steps without bouncing (Irish only allow 5)
6. The concept of the outer posts
The first 2 to me even out the round ball on it's own. It's very difficult for the Irish to stop for a Mark, throw in the tackle and it makes it extremely difficult.
Some rules that maybe different are the kicking in of the sideline ball but this should not be a disadvantage to anybody. The restriction of only 4 hand passes in a row is foreign to both team. Alot of Australians say they don't want this game anymore, large sections of the Irish have the same opinion. Also soccer type skills are seldom used in Gaelic the reason you see this in the Rules is to avert being tackled.

Really... If youre going to do this, try to claim it's more a proper hybrid than it being closer to AFL, trying to claim that an extra 5 steps before bouncing or soloing is a bigger advantage than playing on a different pitch or with a different ball is idiotic and stupid, try telling soccer players to play with an american football.

 

[zachary]

I have played both AFL and Gaelic at Amateur level and I didn't find the players in either game any tougher than the other. The difference is the tackle, it's foreign to the Irish boys and there are like everything techniques. If the Irish tackle their is a good chance that they or the opponents will get hurt because they don't actually know how to execute it properly. If they are being tackled they are unsure how to defend themselves. Saying that what the Australian did in previous tests would not be tolerated in AFL, so that whole argument about being tough this tough that is out the window. What went on had nothing to do with football and had very little to do with toughness. If you look through any old clips you will see Australians taking out Irish players pinning them on the ground while 3 or 4 of the Australians team-mates come in and give him a hand. Lots of late and high stuff that would not be accepted in AFL. So basically the Australians did go out to play tough football they basically acted like beefed up tugs. The Irish have stated time and time again that they are not afraid of the tackle but the tackles must be executed within the laws of the game. This certainly was not the case. I think the Australians are constantly using the tackle as an excuse to beat up the Irish teams because they are well aware it's probably the only way they can win. The ball keeps coming up yet there have been years where the Australians have managed to look better with the ball than the Irish so to me this is just an excuse. This time around they did not show respect to the game and did not prepare like professionals. Very embarassing really!

Most of the youtube clips I have seen show the Irish giving as good as they got.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA4U8zEMmLM
They like fighting just as much as the Aussies, but the trouble is they are not as good at it.

 

[Duggie]

i hope there is a bit of rough stuff friday night, the irish team will expect it. I actually dont think this aussie team will be able to dominate in the physical stuff this year anyway. there pretty small in fairness.

 

[zachary]

According to the GAA boss, a poor crowd at the Gold Coast will probably mean the end of the experiment.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gae...ure-of-rules-series-admits-duffy-2921797.html
Looks a forgone conclusion - I'm guessing they will get less than 10,000. If they get 15,000, the AFL would be doing cartwheels. To put that in perspective, the A league match at the weekend only drew 2,900.

 

[wriggsey]

See cos789 you speak without experience and full of ignorance of the Irish game. As I outlined in my posts a lot of Australians make comment here without actually ever witnessing or even trying to understand a game of Gaelic football. I've played both I've experienced both games and I understand the difficulties of playing AFL after playing GAA all my life (obviously the same goes the other way). All I was trying to point out in the previous posts is that it is a Compromise rules game, it's not GAA, not even close.
It's not automatic thought for the Irish to take a mark they hesitate, then they go and before you know it they are being tackled. They understand until they actually get tackled a couple of times that if they don't take the mark there is probably a guy coming at them to tackle them.
In GAA the tackle is simply shoulder bump other than that players tend to just attempt to force a player to play the ball by pressuring them (I.e. player can only take 5 steps before bouncing or soloing as we call it). Hardly a tackle in the sense of AFL tackle which is something that takes time to hone like any skill. Yes 20 minutes is a fitness thing and we are playing a professional team who are a lot fitter for a game longer than we are used to. The pitch is smaller than an AFL pitch again which means that the Aussies probably will have more juice in the tank than usual. Smaller pitch also means that the Aussies actually have an even greater chance of tackling the Irish players (which I think explains the large amount of tackles and violence in previous games). Again extra steps might sound like a little thing but it's not a normal natural aspect of the Irish game to take so many steps.
All you guys talk about in relation to this game is the physical stuff. There is something sick in Australian sport. If you want to see fights go down to your local RSL clubs on a Saturday night. As I have said the Irish don't have a problem with the tackle just so long as it is within the rules of the games. Since when do you see AFL players holding eachother down on the ground after the ball has gone 50 yards up the field for five minutes and have 3 or 4 of his team mates come sliding in to give them a hand. It's all gutless stuff really. Sad buffer-head stuff. Attitudes to sport need to change in Australia as Australians are getting a bad name across the globe. An example in the last game was when Bolton got a neck injury. The tackle was fine but there was a lot of chest beating and hand slapping between the Australians as he lay on the ground (I believe this was the reason the Irish player entered the Australian huddle as he took offence to it). Like there is something wrong there, that's just a ridiculous and unsporting attitude. The thing is I already know what most of the responses will be here. Very predictable I'm sure. Maybe a link of a video of a couple of the Irish boys getting hammered in the previous games.

 

[phantom13]

See cos789 you speak without experience and full of ignorance of the Irish game. As I outlined in my posts a lot of Australians make comment here without actually ever witnessing or even trying to understand a game of Gaelic football. I've played both I've experienced both games and I understand the difficulties of playing AFL after playing GAA all my life (obviously the same goes the other way). All I was trying to point out in the previous posts is that it is a Compromise rules game, it's not GAA, not even close.
It's not automatic thought for the Irish to take a mark they hesitate, then they go and before you know it they are being tackled. They understand until they actually get tackled a couple of times that if they don't take the mark there is probably a guy coming at them to tackle them.
In GAA the tackle is simply shoulder bump other than that players tend to just attempt to force a player to play the ball by pressuring them (I.e. player can only take 5 steps before bouncing or soloing as we call it). Hardly a tackle in the sense of AFL tackle which is something that takes time to hone like any skill. Yes 20 minutes is a fitness thing and we are playing a professional team who are a lot fitter for a game longer than we are used to. The pitch is smaller than an AFL pitch again which means that the Aussies probably will have more juice in the tank than usual. Smaller pitch also means that the Aussies actually have an even greater chance of tackling the Irish players (which I think explains the large amount of tackles and violence in previous games). Again extra steps might sound like a little thing but it's not a normal natural aspect of the Irish game to take so many steps.
All you guys talk about in relation to this game is the physical stuff. There is something sick in Australian sport. If you want to see fights go down to your local RSL clubs on a Saturday night. As I have said the Irish don't have a problem with the tackle just so long as it is within the rules of the games. Since when do you see AFL players holding eachother down on the ground after the ball has gone 50 yards up the field for five minutes and have 3 or 4 of his team mates come sliding in to give them a hand. It's all gutless stuff really. Sad buffer-head stuff. Attitudes to sport need to change in Australia as Australians are getting a bad name across the globe. An example in the last game was when Bolton got a neck injury. The tackle was fine but there was a lot of chest beating and hand slapping between the Australians as he lay on the ground (I believe this was the reason the Irish player entered the Australian huddle as he took offence to it). Like there is something wrong there, that's just a ridiculous and unsporting attitude. The thing is I already know what most of the responses will be here. Very predictable I'm sure. Maybe a link of a video of a couple of the Irish boys getting hammered in the previous games.

You will win no friends here with idiotic rambling mate.

 

[wriggsey]

zachary OK looked at the video and to be honest that one was complimentary to the Aussies. Here is a breakdown, I am still laughing if you think the Irish were equally dirty (I have left out the 50/50 ones:
1. Australian takes the head of an Irish guy
2. Australian pins Irish guy on his back after tackle
3. Australian pins Irish guy on his back after tackle
4. Fair tackle Irish guy punches ball
5. Australian pins Irish guy on his back after tackle
6. Irish guy knees Australian in the head (probably up there with the worst) 3 Australians make a v-line for him. Brawl generally you'll see Irish boys trying to break it up with 2 Australians laying in to them
7. Irish player slammed but personally I think that was a great tackle, no argument beat all the crap of pinning guys down after the tackle
8. Irish guy bumped head high by Australian no attempt to play the ball or make a fair tackle
9. Irish guy grabs an Aussies head
Think somebody posted a more realistic youtube video earlier to highlight how great the Australians were in the tackle.

 

[wriggsey]

phantom13 I'd only be interested in making friends with level headed people who see the truth in the words I speak. There isn't anything insulting in any of my posts I've just put it up as I see it. Obviously it's probably not from the same perspective as a lot of people on this forum. If you cannot take a bit of criticism well that's fine. I'm sure you are aware I'm not expecting everybody to love what I say. I'm bracing myself for a few coat-hanger and king hits.

 

[wriggsey]

To add I love AFL and think it's a great sport so don't get me wrong I'm not anti-AFL.