Investigation into Essendon Fitness Program

[Sector 7G]

Wow...you are crazy. There is Mass Hysteria and it is a witch hunt. Journalists and the man who runs the AFL are asking someone to step down based on rumor, spin and innuendo...that is a witch hunt.

What she is doing is providing context. The mainstream media has done a great job demonizing the term supplements so every-time it is brought up there is a negative connotation associated with those terms by the public. They use terms like concoction and pig brain extract to further this negative perception when as the article I posted shows, all medicine, drugs and supplements come from the same place.

Stopping players from using supplements entirely for recover is a Duty of Care issue. Making that claim is not saying every supplement should be legal for this purpose. Are PED's for recovery something that should be illegal? I mean, why can a player who can't play through pain be able to get a pain injection? Why can Max Rooke be able to get calf blood injected to help with his injury problems?

That is purely opinion. I don't believe that there is any widespread uncontrolable emotion in the reporting and I can describe the the investigation into Hird's alledged questionable use of supplements an investigation rather than only being a witch hunt. The language used suggests that it is not going to be a balanced article.

Also as plenty of Essendon supporter have claimed here, Demetriou didn't call for Hird to resign rather said after repeated probing that it would be something he would have to consider.

The origin of drugs taken is an irrelevant and her point would have been better made without the irrational rant. Why would she suggest players might be relucant to eat brains in the future?

Everyone would be better to ignore the writings of irrational jounalists such as Holmes, Smith and any Wilson.

 

[josephine666]

The important question is, is he a Hird supporter?
This is a very different thing to being a Bomber supporter (although most of them don't realise it).

Very true. The EFC does appear quite unified to the outside world but I imagine there is a fair bit of finger pointing within. Still, I'd bet there wont be any heads rolled as a result of Ziggy's investigation - it will be all about recommending a new charter of governance with the board signing off everything in future. No point in eating their own before ASADA concludes

 

[Ron The Bear]

would have thought the ACC would have that covered, there could be OH & S issues or medicare issues

Maybe, but discrediting Dank could be crucial to Essendon's defence to ASADA. Certainly it has a much lower profile than the Switkowski probe, and the club hasn't seen fit to mention it.

 

[Stamos]

Still, I'd bet there wont be any heads rolled as a result of Ziggy's investigation - it will be all about recommending a new charter of governance with the board signing off everything in future. No point in eating their own before ASADA concludes

Not sure about this.
Assuming the report is thorough, and therefore has similar findings to what ASADA will, the club would be better off going as soon as possible.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Very true. The EFC does appear quite unified to the outside world but I imagine there is a fair bit of finger pointing within. Still, I'd bet there wont be any heads rolled as a result of Ziggy's investigation - it will be all about recommending a new charter of governance with the board signing off everything in future. No point in eating their own before ASADA concludes

The grubby drug-ingesting culture that is coming to light demands a sacrifice, and media pundits have consistently suggested Robson is the anointed one.

 

[josephine666]

Only because of the timing. Ziggy's report will be tabled weeks if not months before the ASADA investigation concludes. The investigations are also looking at very different issues. Ziggy won't be identifying that there was systematic doping at the EFC, he will be looking at the (lack of) process and protocols that got them into this mess (regardless if doping took place or not)

 

[josephine666]

My comment was for Stamos. I think heads will roll but not as a result of Ziggy. Of course I could be wrong, I just think the sacrificing will only commence when there is pressure from outside forces. You need to keep your scapegoats fed and sheltered until required.

 

[Stamos]

You need to keep your scapegoats fed and sheltered until required.

I think they've got a few, so sacrificing one early might be more beneficial for them.
We will see.

 

[CharacterFirst]

so next time Dave Culbert talks about Sally Pearson nee McLellan, and talks about her threatening the world record, and as is she has the third fastest time in history, but the top times are marked by athletes from the GDR, have a big laugh. the new stuff is better than the old stuff Culbert you muppet. And Culbert knows how it is played, but he perpetuates the myth about "OUR Sally". <derisory smirk>

Why should we care? You don't think it's an issue of character or of ethics. Why should we care what Culbert says about sports people?

I'll tell you why. B/c it is a character and ethics issue, and we all know it is. Even if we don't want to face it b/c of what it might mean for our own characters and ethics.

 

[sr36]

My comment was for Stamos. I think heads will roll but not as a result of Ziggy. Of course I could be wrong, I just think the sacrificing will only commence when there is pressure from outside forces. You need to keep your scapegoats fed and sheltered until required.

I think that many heads will roll, but the only head that can roll at the moment is Hird. Many of us aren't really that familiar with the backroom guys at clubs. If the current guys were replaced now, the new guys would have to handle this scandal and would become associated with this scandal. The head coach is a bit different, because coaches are so publicly identifiable that if a new guy were to come in now, he would be publicly seperate from the scandal.

 

[Bluesince62]

I think they've got a few, so sacrificing one early might be more beneficial for them.
We will see.

They have to show there was a purpose to the Ziggy inquiry and so I believe there must be an early scalp in either Robson or Corcoran being stood down or resigning. Plus all of the procedural changes and empowerment of the club doctors and probably a recommendation for a full time doctor. There will also be a sealed section which cannot (read will not) be released prior to the ASADA finding. In short supporters will not get any information other than an assurance that this will never happen again.

 

[Satan]

They have to show there was a purpose to the Ziggy inquiry and so I believe there must be an early scalp in either Robson or Corcoran being stood down or resigning. Plus all of the procedural changes and empowerment of the club doctors and probably a recommendation for a full time doctor. There will also be a sealed section which cannot (read will not) be released prior to the ASADA finding. In short supporters will not get any information other than an assurance that this will never happen again.

Sealed section like in Cleo, photos of a tanned james and bomber

 

[CharacterFirst]

They have to show there was a purpose to the Ziggy inquiry and so I believe there must be an early scalp in either Robson or Corcoran being stood down or resigning. Plus all of the procedural changes and empowerment of the club doctors and probably a recommendation for a full time doctor. There will also be a sealed section which cannot (read will not) be released prior to the ASADA finding. In short supporters will not get any information other than an assurance that this will never happen again.

Maybe.

The AFL will get a copy and said they will make it public.

I think the AFL will be very interested in what is recommended. If they don't think it goes far enough considering what they know, then I expect we will be made aware of it.

 

[blackcat]

I'll tell you why. B/c it is a character and ethics issue, and we all know it is. Even if we don't want to face it b/c of what it might mean for our own characters and ethics.

yes. psychology transferrence. see the athlete with his number on our back, as our ideal, and fantasy. cant live vicariously if the truth is unpalatable

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Frome The Australian


The review will be conducted by former Telstra chief executive and Essendon supporter Ziggy Switkowski,

Lol, it will probably be as neutral as Vossy's review of the Brissie football department a couple of years ago

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Lol, it will probably be as neutral as Vossy's review of the Brissie football department a couple of years ago

Maybe Ziggy can do a review of the AFL webpage when he's finished.

 

[CharacterFirst]

yes. psychology transferrence. see the athlete with his number on our back, as our ideal, and fantasy. cant live vicariously if the truth is unpalatable

Yep. And I think we are also challenged by the showing up of our own 'guilt' in light of truth and morality.

IMO this is why we hate anyone who even implies any judgement, b/c it is showing our shame and guilt. The punter defends gambling, the womaniser adultery, the hedonist materalism and liberalism. etc.

In this case the EFC posters defend their club b/c they somehow see it as a reflection of their character. But it's not, unless someone has warned you about the ethical issues and you have ignored them(Pat Smith/Matt Knights); or you actually share the same flawed ethics of the club.

This is why Vlad is attacking the win at all costs mentality (while sadly creating the very environment for it to flourish!). Whatever it takes! It is very disturbing what we invest ourselves in.

 

[blackcat]

This is why Vlad is attacking the win at all costs mentality (while sadly creating the very environment for it to flourish!). Whatever it takes! It is very disturbing what we invest ourselves in.

how does Vlad square Ian Collins and Wayne Jackson covering up other steroid positives and then throwing Justin Charles under the bus as the sole scapegoat when he was the players association president

<insert any variant translation of brecht quote>

 

[QuietB]

Only because of the timing. Ziggy's report will be tabled weeks if not months before the ASADA investigation concludes. The investigations are also looking at very different issues. Ziggy won't be identifying that there was systematic doping at the EFC, he will be looking at the (lack of) process and protocols that got them into this mess (regardless if doping took place or not)

And Ziggy will not get his hands on the so called evidence that the ACC has provided to ASADA.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

While Hird seems to think they will come out squeeky clean it seems unlikely.
IF Hird and co were in fact taking suppliments that would be considered banned for the playing group wtf were they thinking by doing it in a way that could be associated with the club.
Its like taking your prescription drugs into Bankok in a condom in your bum. Its not illegal but its really really stupid ( unless you get off on the consequential activities ).

 

[blackcat]

While Hird seems to think they will come out squeeky clean it seems unlikely.
IF Hird and co were in fact taking suppliments that would be considered banned for the playing group wtf were they thinking by doing it in a way that could be associated with the club.
Its like taking your prescription drugs into Bankok in a condom in your bum. Its not illegal but its really really stupid ( unless you get off on the consequential activities ).

well just how am i to take my suppository sherlock?

 

[CharacterFirst]

how does Vlad square Ian Collins and Wayne Jackson covering up other steroid positives and then throwing Justin Charles under the bus as the sole scapegoat when he was the players association president

<insert any variant translation of brecht quote>

Well I don't know that they did. But even they did, it didn't happen on Andy D's watch, so I guess he doesn't see it as his responsibility - and nor is it.

The AFLPA was not really as strong or influential back then as it is now. Perhaps he did what he had to do, in which case he would have skeletons in the cupboard as well. Its messy when ethics get thrown out the door and people are allowed to "get away" with stuff. Power corrupts and absolute power.....

Having said that, Andy D isn't a great moral crusader is he? I guess he just sees the mess and thinks rightly there is more to the game and life than winning at any cost. The problem is, as I said, he has partly created an environment that has led to this prevailing attitude.

We can certainly deaden our conscience. That is why we need an objective morally, and why a subjective one is so attractive to people. They think they can assuage their own guilt and shame.

 

[zaharakamania]

While Hird seems to think they will come out squeeky clean it seems unlikely.
IF Hird and co were in fact taking suppliments that would be considered banned for the playing group wtf were they thinking by doing it in a way that could be associated with the club.
Its like taking your prescription drugs into Bankok in a condom in your bum. Its not illegal but its really really stupid ( unless you get off on the consequential activities ).

Geez, do you think you might have stumbled onto one of the glaring absurdities in these allegations?

No flies on you pal...

 

[ziad]

And Ziggy will not get his hands on the so called evidence that the ACC has provided to ASADA.

one is a lengthy legal investigation supported by major powers, the other is a quick administrative review of process.

I await the main act

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I have no idea if Tracey Holmes is an Essendon supporter or not but she is a well respected sports journalist, one thing she has done since day one is be highly critical of the whole investigation, so her message is fairly consistent.

I'm curious whether she is an Essendon supporter though as my opinion is that the Golden Boy is a proven liar after the whole Matthew Knights shafting.

Tracey Holmes is a Sydney girl and unless she had a conversion in the naughties she isn't an Essendon supporter as she has spent most of the last decade in China and Hong Kong. Actually IIRC she was born in South Africa as her old man toured on the semi pro surfing tour in the 60's.