Investigation into Essendon Fitness Program

[Stiubhart]

I'm not disputing it isnt under the catch all phrase. But people are claiming it isnt approved for human use which seems odd given I can buy it at stores in Australia to use on humans

https://www.deboralabs.com/products/AOD9604

Home​

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AOD9604​

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Tags: general, peptides

AOD9604​

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• CAS: 221231-10-3
• ​
  
• Formula: C207H308N56O58S1
• Molecular weight: 1815.1
• Peptide purity: > 98.0%
• Appearance: White powder
• Related substance: Total Impurities(%) ≤ 2.0%
• Acetate content: ≤ 15.0%
• Bacterial Endotoxins: ≤5 IU/mg
• Chain:​
  Tyr-Leu-Arg-Ile-Val-Gln-Cys-Arg-Ser-Val-Glu-Gly-Ser-Cys-Gly-Phe

• HPLC sheet (PDF)
• Special notice:​
  Each vial contains 5mg of product.

AOD9604 is also known as tyr-somatostatin 177-191; it belongs to class of synthetic peptides and consists of 14 amino acids. Its molecular formula is C78H13O23S2 and its molecular mass is 1815.1.
To date, in 1978 scientists Ng and Borstein suggested that functionality of few proteins including AOD9604 might be dependent on both informational sequence and proper physical configuration. Since this protein also represents hormones and is also defined as analogue (synthetic) of growth hormone, researchers (Monash University) more than a decade ago conducted study with animal model about its metabolic effects on obesity and found that fragment 176-191 targets obese fat cells not lean cells, and furthermore has no adverse effects on insulin sensibility.
This research compound is a bit modified form of 14 amino acids of GH polypeptide; recently scientists found that it's responsible for controlling fat-reducing effect of initial polypeptide. Tyr-somatostatin is able to stimulate lipolysis and to slow down lipogenesis and to improve cholesterol level. Due to being rich in proline and providing high accessibility for proteases this compound influences conformational alterations in cytoplasmic domain of triple erythrocytes’ membrane.
Currently this fragment of hGH should be used for research purposes only.
Customer notice! AOD9604 is not for human consumption! Please review information below


H-statements (GHS/CLP): P-statements (GHS/CLP):
H302: Harmful if swallowed. P102: Keep out of reach of children.
H315: Causes skin irritation P232: Protect from moisture.
H319: Causes serious eye irritation. P235: Keep cool.
H332: Harmful if inhaled. P261: Avoid breathing dust/fume/gas/mist/vapours/spray.
P264: Wash hands thoroughly after handling.
P301+P312: IF SWALLOWED: Call a POISON CENTER or doctor/physician if you feel unwell.
P302+P352: IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of soap and water.
P301+P330+P331: IF SWALLOWED: rinse mouth. Do NOT induce vomiting.
P332+313: If skin irritation occurs: Get medical advice/attention.

P411+235: Store at temperatures not exceeding 8°C/46°F. Keep cool











I know it is an American website but looking at the warning given above , unless there are different rules in Australia , I somehow cannot see too many people over in America or here rushing out to buy this stuff to douse their Corn Flakes with or slip in their coffee as a
pick me up.​

 

[De Iulio2Wiggins]

Mark Evans believes that Jobe Watson telling the truth is not 'helpful'. To what purpose, I wonder? Surely it's getting to the point now that more supporters of other clubs would walk away from the game in disgust if Essendon didn't cop their right whack, than Bombers supporters dropping off because their team has to spend a few years in the wilderness if they do.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-confession-unhelpful-afl-20130626-2owim.html

 

[cairo tiger]

The story so far.....

1. We're shocked to be sitting here
2. We don't know what we've taken
3. We've taken nothing illegal
4. No one outside Dank and the Weapon knew what was going on
5. Those invoices? What invoices? Oh, you mean the ones we signed and paid.
6. We don't know what we've taken
7. We've taken nothing illegal
8. What consent forms?
9. Oh. those consent forms. They don't prove that the substances named were actually taken.
10. The coaches and doctors didn't know about the forms or the program. Its all Dank and the Weapon's fault.
11. Oh yeah. Hirdy was in the room when the Consent forms were signed
12. And oh yeah - Hirdy had a six month text fling with Dank raving on about the program
13. We don't know what we've taken
14. We've taken nothing illegal
15. But wait! We have a letter
16. No we don't
17. The forms state AOD-9604
18. But look! it's not in Section S2 of the WADA banned substances list
19. Oh, but it is in section S0. Damn!
20. But look there have been some cosmetics use! All clear!
21. Damn... WADA says banned for athletes
22. Yeah but... we aren't saying we took AOD-9604
23. But if we did take it, we think we're fine
24. Jobe admits he took a banned substance.
25. Doc Reid knew about it after all
26. But we're still fine. Jobe and Timmy say so.

Yeah, they've been open, honest and co operative throughout.

afraid to say it but for once I agree with a carlton supporter.

just say it hirdy, I stuffed Up and I was wrong

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Actually you would win your case. Punters have had speeding fines overturned for non-visible speed signs, and for speed cameras set up contrary to the rules they were supposed to follow. If ASADA screwed up, they will have to wear it IMO

Very different though. The signs and detection methods are all OK. Do you claim that my hypothetical letter from a policeman now gives me total immunity to speeding charges?

 

[blackshadow]

Mark Evans believes that Jobe Watson telling the truth is not 'helpful'. To what purpose, I wonder? Surely it's getting to the point now that more supporters of other clubs would walk away from the game in disgust if Essendon didn't cop their right whack, than Bombers supporters dropping off because their team has to spend a few years in the wilderness if they do.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-confession-unhelpful-afl-20130626-2owim.html

I'm sure some Essendon (and perhaps AFL) sponsors are looking at what's going on very closely.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Has Vlad called Kia lately?

 

[Baldur]

Mark Evans believes that Jobe Watson telling the truth is not 'helpful'. To what purpose, I wonder? Surely it's getting to the point now that more supporters of other clubs would walk away from the game in disgust if Essendon didn't cop their right whack, than Bombers supporters dropping off because their team has to spend a few years in the wilderness if they do.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-confession-unhelpful-afl-20130626-2owim.html

AFL is upset the mushrooms know something they would prefer was kept in the dark until they had massaged the message to their liking. Really they are so predictable as evil overlords that if this was a novel it would be rejected as too formula driven.

 

[Keys]

Mark Evans believes that Jobe Watson telling the truth is not 'helpful'. To what purpose, I wonder? Surely it's getting to the point now that more supporters of other clubs would walk away from the game in disgust if Essendon didn't cop their right whack, than Bombers supporters dropping off because their team has to spend a few years in the wilderness if they do.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-confession-unhelpful-afl-20130626-2owim.html

It doesn't have any bearing on the investigation

It was certainly unhelpful to the AFL though whilst the investigation is still ongoing since they want to have it concluded before sanctions are determined

 

[SaintsSeptember]

yeah- that's why they might be so confident the players will be fine.
essendon and reid hoodwinked by dank, players get advice from their doc as they are told to do- he refers them to the info he has and the green light is given.
essendon and reid cop a whack as they should have known better than to trust some two-bit muscle-peddler and the players get off as they were just victims of poor governance and general run of the mill stupidity. hird, reid et al ultimately fall on their swords admitting they've been duped but still come out of it with integrity intact as they've continued to support the players and are shown to not have deliberately cheated.. the club cops some kinda 'ban' 'sanction' and life goes on.
something like this isn't too far fetched is it?

Dank = Essendon at the time.
You cant just cut staff and make them the scapegoat.
If Dank at his time at EssendonFC is guilty , EssendonFC is guilty.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Very different though. The signs and detection methods are all OK. Do you claim that my hypothetical letter from a policeman now gives me total immunity to speeding charges?

Your example is ridiculous because there is no speed limit in Victoria at 140, and anyone doing a test would know it.

If you were on an unsigned road however, pulled over and asked the officer "whats the speed limit?", he said "100", you did 100 and then got busted because it was actually 80, I think it would be a different situation (and a closer example to this case)

 

[Ron The Bear]

Your captions, please.

James Hird after his press conference at Windy Hill. Picture: Wayne Ludbey (Herald Sun)

 

[Underdog]

Mark Evans believes that Jobe Watson telling the truth is not 'helpful'. To what purpose, I wonder?

I'd suggest it hinders the image and has left the AFL in somewhat of a quandary.

At the end of the day, his comments on TV are irrelevant to the investigation.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I'd suggest it hinders the image and has left the AFL in somewhat of a quandary.

At the end of the day, his comments on TV are irrelevant to the investigation.

But they are relevant to how the afl is seen to handle the matter.

"Wait for the investigation" is all good and well when things haven't been proven yet, but when someone is making a public admission then the afl needs to act on that knowledge.

 

[The Dodger]

Look, these do doucments do exist... Unfortunately, they were eaten by the Loch Ness monster.

Is it bad procedures / governance in not getting a photo of Nessy?

 

[Underdog]

But they are relevant to how the afl is seen to handle the matter.

"Wait for the investigation" is all good and well when things haven't been proven yet, but when someone is making a public admission then the afl needs to act on that knowledge.

Indeed. That's what I meant with regard to being in a quandary.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Does anyone honestly think that if Essendon had evidence that they were allowed to use AOD they wouldn't be shouting it from the rooftops to stop this nightmare for the club's image?

They would have got the evidence to every news organization in the country within an hour wouldn't they?

You can bet there's no letter. Figment of Danks imagination. He said he had the only copy and wasn't giving to anyone....lol. First it was a letter, then an email, then something else. Essendon's never seen it so if that's their defence they're in a world of sh1t. Th en there was Danks deliberate misrepresentation of email correspondence with WADA trying to make everything sound legal in his own mind when in fact he was told in no uncertain term AOD was illegal. ASADA/WADA aren't going to send him any letter.

This is just AOD. If Cronulla are anything to go by, not to mention Spike, there alot of other substances that were injected, many unknown. Thymyosin, the type of which was conveniently left off the consent form. The only one he sourced, and he did by the bucketful, as that what you'd need for a team, was the banned thymyosin beta-4. That's the one he supposedly injected into the Cronulla players. Remains to be seen at Essendon which one but past history would say it'd be the same version.

 

[tigerdan]

Its not bullshit though. If it happened (and FWIW I don't think it has) someone screwed up and ASADA have to be held accountable. You don't get to go "oh geez, we screwed up, but we are gunna ban you and kill your career for doing what we told you to do anyway. have a nice day"

ASADA continually tell people to confirm with them, and that puts a massive obligation on them to make sure they give the right information to athletes, and its bullshit to expect athletes to wear the cost of their mistakes.

Excuse me but you are not the sole arbiter of what constitutes bullshit in my posts

In any case we are arguing something that is hypothetical, and that's pretty much a waste of time. But I do think that incorrect advice from ASADA is the only way they can possibly get out of it. Well the only other way is sabotage or 'while unconscious' and Essendon are saying nothing about those two loopholes.

It's been said a million times but my feeling is that Dank sold them a story that AOD was 'not banned' (technically true) and they believed him. It's the simplest and most believable answer.

I also do not discount the possibility that they know they are ultimately doomed and are just positioning themselves to be painted as unfairly banned by inflexible rules. Sounds a whle lot better than cheats that got caught.

 

[Hawthorn United]

Is it bad procedures / governance in not getting a photo of Nessy?

They did have photos. But Big Foot took them.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Your example is ridiculous because there is no speed limit in Victoria at 140, and anyone doing a test would know it.

If you were on an unsigned road however, pulled over and asked the officer "whats the speed limit?", he said "100", you did 100 and then got busted because it was actually 80, I think it would be a different situation (and a closer example to this case)

My point exactly , if Dank had a letter, but then chose to ignore all other advice because he has a letter, then he's as ridiculous as my example. His communication to WADA seems to be along these lines.
"Is AOD on a list"? "No but it might be banned in section....""NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING"

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Excuse me but you are not the sole arbiter of what constitutes bullshit in my posts

In any case we are arguing something that is hypothetical, and that's pretty much a waste of time. But I do think that incorrect advice from ASADA is the only way they can possibly get out of it. Well the only other way is sabotage or 'while unconscious' and Essendon are saying nothing about those two loopholes.

It's been said a million times but my feeling is that Dank sold them a story that AOD was 'not banned' (technically true) and they believed him. It's the simplest and most believable answer.

I also do not discount the possibility that they know they are ultimately doomed and are just positioning themselves to be painted as unfairly banned by inflexible rules. Sounds a whle lot better than cheats that got caught.

The other option is as per what Baldur suggested, prove the classification made by WADA is incorrect. This is very tough to make, and well outside my area of expertise, so I wouldn't even try to guess how it could be done.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

My point exactly , if Dank had a letter, but then chose to ignore all other advice because he has a letter, then he's as ridiculous as my example. His communication to WADA seems to be along these lines.
"Is AOD on a list"? "No but it might be banned in section....""NOT LISTENING NOT LISTENING"

Depends upon the wording in the letter

You say "all other advice", what advice though?

AOD isn't listed as a specifically banned supplement

WADA said you need to speak to ASADA

If WADA say speak to ASADA, and ASADA say "its cool, rock on" why would you question what ASADA - your governing body - tell you about the regulation they wrote and enforce?

 

[Baldur]

Your example is ridiculous because there is no speed limit in Victoria at 140, and anyone doing a test would know it.

If you were on an unsigned road however, pulled over and asked the officer "whats the speed limit?", he said "100", you did 100 and then got busted because it was actually 80, I think it would be a different situation (and a closer example to this case)

And the result would be much the same

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Dank = Essendon at the time.
You cant just cut staff and make them the scapegoat.
If Dank at his time at EssendonFC is guilty , EssendonFC is guilty.

Same point I made once before. Carlton got rid of Elliott when Salary breaches were exposed. Did that mean we got off the draft penalties - NO, and nor should we have. He was part of the administration that setup the environment and made the decisions.

The point I find most distasteful is the reference to a 'rogue' element (being Dank and Robinson) with the inference that it wasn't Essendon's or the coaches fault and 'how could we have known about it ?'. Laying the blame elsewhere.

At Essendon, the environment and management structure was setup by Evans, Robson, Hird and Thompson (and personally I think the major influence was Hird and Thompson.)

They and the club should pay the price. I'm all for the players getting off - I think they did what they were told.

 

[tigerdan]

The other option is as per what Baldur suggested, prove the classification made by WADA is incorrect. This is very tough to make, and well outside my area of expertise, so I wouldn't even try to guess how it could be done.

Yes, that is a point. But if you wind the clock backwards you can't realistically claim that Essendon became aware of AOD and then decided that the WADA code was wrong and therefore they were going to use it anyhow. To quote Captain Barbossa "t'would strain credulity, aye"

So we have to get to the bottom of why they thought it was ok to take.

Either they thought (or were told) it was ok... Or they thought they would not get caught. I don't see any other realistic third option.

 

[coryne]

yeah- that's why they might be so confident the players will be fine.
essendon and reid hoodwinked by dank, players get advice from their doc as they are told to do- he refers them to the info he has and the green light is given.
essendon and reid cop a whack as they should have known better than to trust some two-bit muscle-peddler and the players get off as they were just victims of poor governance and general run of the mill stupidity. hird, reid et al ultimately fall on their swords admitting they've been duped but still come out of it with integrity intact as they've continued to support the players and are shown to not have deliberately cheated.. the club cops some kinda 'ban' 'sanction' and life goes on.
something like this isn't too far fetched is it?

You are missing the part where Dank comes out with documentation showing that the EFC not only knew about the supplement program but encouraged him during the process. I would say your scenario is pretty much what the EFC are pushing for (except Hird won't be falling on his sword, he has made that clear) the question is will Dank allow himself to be used as a scape goat in the end ......


As for this "mystery documentation" which gives Essendon permission to use AOD (not related to the quote I am posting, just a general theme within the thread), I have a question. Who obtained this documentation? Dank claims it wasn't him and that WADA/ASADA wouldn't give out such documentation (despite claiming to Melbourne ASADA were giving him an email approving AOD's use). ASADA/WADA confirm they would never give anyone permission to use a substance because of the variability in processing/manufacturing/to avoid shit storms like this. So where did this documentation originate from (if it wasn't WADA/ASADA) and who obtained it (if it wasn't Dank). Answering these two questions will result in a number of points being clarified.


1) If a the document DID come from WADA/ASADA then there was a MASSIVE stuff up and it would be next to impossible to prosecute the players. That said I think it is EXTREMELY unlikely for this to have occurred as it would go against their organizations policies regarding giving permission to use a substance

2) If the letter did not originate from WADA/ASADA then where did it come from? Did it come from Calzada/MP, who own the patent (unlikely considering the head said he was shocked to hear it was being used at Essendon)? Did it come from a distributor of the bootleg AOD9604? Or was it a fabrication made up by someone (e.g. was it the Email from WADA to ASADA where it was stated that AOD wasn't specifically named as a banned substance and wasn't banned under clause S2)

3) If the letter does exist then what exactly does it say? If it is from WADA/ASADA does it say that AOD is permissible for use by athletes or does it state that AOD is not specifically named as a banned substance/isn't caught under S2?

And last but most important IMO

4) If Dank didn't get this documentation then WHO DID? I ask this question because how can Dank be working as a rogue element within the EFC supplement program if other individuals are researching and trying to obtain permission to use these rogue substances. 1 person acting alone = rogue. Multiple people acting together =/= rogue.