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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Is Choco the first coach to admit his team is actually tanking?
- Thread starter Stereophonic
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Don't be daft. They're in the squad, but they just haven't been selected in the 22 until recently. What is so 'netball' about Lower, Thomas, Farmer, Thomson e.t.c.? They were all recruited by Williams. Now let's see some games get given to them at last.
It will? Thank you unbiased internet stranger.
What planet do you live on? Either were you born after 1990, or only knew about football after 1997.
After losing a grand final in such a humiliating fashion, the world was supposed to cave in on us as well. This season started horribly, and membership still went up. Is a 20-goal grand final defeat better or worse than "announcing to the world" that the season is over after round 14? I guess you have measured that? The Crows and their "winning" culture (winning minor round games at least) managed to see membership drop and 14,000 no-shows to McLeod's 300th.
We are a very soft target right now, so everyone is piling on. Last year we were called "lucky", having a soft draw and winning every close game. This year we have a tougher draw and lose every close game - but it's not bad luck, all of a sudden, it's the truth. No, the truth is probably somewhere in between. We'll take that top-three pick, which is in fact a top-three pick in every subsequent round, and rebuild the team properly this time.
Neil Craig in finals: 33%
Mark Williams in finals: 47%
Since Neil Craig has been a coach, Choco is 75% in finals. But you enjoy that "winning" culture that's being developed. After all, being ace in the minor round got us a lot of respect.
There has NEVER been any question about the players wanting to win.
Players DON'T TANK (not that we know of anyway)! CLUB ADMIN's and COACHES TANK!
I am sick of debating if TANKING is deliberately throwing a game, or not putting the best side out on the park, or trying out youngsters, or WHO is tanking etc........if the WHOLE CLUB is not going out to win 100% (players, admin, coaching staff, doctors etc), then the club is TANKING....for whatever reason that may be.....even to put players out for ops thant could be done post season!!!!
Fans who pay their hard earnt deserve better than a team that has sent their stars off for surgery that could be done post season, or who are trying out youngsters, or who want to lose for a higher draft pick
Macca19
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- #54
As you said, we are testing the list to see who we should bother going forward with. Guys like Lonie, Thurstans, Bentley, Williams, Deluca, Salter and White are playing for their futures...and to a lesser extent, guys like Thomson, Surjan, Pettigrew, P Burgoyne and Lower are doing the same thing. They dont perform, they dont get a contract, simple as that. Do people reckon these guys will be deliberately going out on the park to play bad so Port lose so they get an earlier draft pick?
And in any case, if we really wanted to 'tank', we wouldnt be bringing the guys in good form in, we'd be playing guys like Willits, Boyle, M Motlop, Lobbe, Giles who are playing SANFL reserves and are either not ready or arent good enough.
Very good.To determine whether or not Port are tanking you need to define tanking. Is it not selecting your best 22? Is it putting players away to surgery early? If yes then sure, Port are tanking.
but to suggest Port are deliberately losing games once the ball is bounced down (my definition of tanking) is preposterous.
There has NEVER been any question about the players wanting to win.
Players DON'T TANK (not that we know of anyway)! CLUB ADMIN's and COACHES TANK!
I am sick of debating if TANKING is deliberately throwing a game, or not putting the best side out on the park, or trying out youngsters, or WHO is tanking etc........if the WHOLE CLUB is not going out to win 100% (players, admin, coaching staff, doctors etc), then the club is TANKING....for whatever reason that may be.....even to put players out for ops thant could be done post season!!!!
Fans who pay their hard earnt deserve better than a team that has sent their stars off for surgery that could be done post season, or who are trying out youngsters, or who want to lose for a higher draft pick
Were you even watching Chad Cornes' last few games? He was f***ed. A liability who was put in to surgery three years after just one of his injuries first flared.
Tredrea and Salopek went down in round 17. They were never coming back.
Boak may come back, but he has been in and out with injury all year. Should the club compromise next year to save face from tanking this year?
Tell me who the "best 22" players are, who are being omitted right now, to prove that the club is trying to lose games.
TedDougChris
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So on this basis, trading older players for early draft picks, knowing that this will result in short term pain for long term gain, is tanking.... Because your more experienced players have a better chance of winning than your younger ones....
Because this is what Hawthorn did a few years ago......
And what about players who have operations in the post season, but as a result, can't do a full pre-season and have a slow start. Is this evidence of tanking prior to the start of the season ??
What is wrong with you people?
IF you are NOT trying 100% to WIN every game for whatever reason, it is TANKING!
Thats not right, very poor definition of tanking.
Plenty of teams want to win games but end up only playing to 80-90% and lose. For whatever reason teams sometimes don't try at 100% to win, it sure doesn't mean their tanking.
So one member club of the AFL is more important to the structure of the AFL than others.
Port are just fillers in the competition that have done a fairly decent job. Is that what you are saying ?
Your hatred of Carlton just shows up in the childish dribble you just posted.
Last year Carlton blooded kids & also sent players off for early surgery.
Williams wants to do the same thing but carlton are tanking & Port are not.
Either both clubs tanked or both clubs did not.
Carlton won early games while they still hasd Stevens. As soon as Stevens got injured we seemed to go to water & struggled.
Pagan obviously wasn't popular & desire to play good footy wasn't there.
As soon as ratten took over the beltings stopped bar one or two games. All the others we we competative but simply were not good enough.
There are other clubs that have sent players off for early surgery or played kids when the season looks finished.
Because carlton got #1 picks it seems that they are labelled as the only tankers.
I think Choco is at least opening peoples eyes to see that there are plenty of other clubs that do what carlton did last year when they sent players off to early surgery & played kids.
I agree 37k at Maccas game was no good, and to have a ticket and not go for a champion or get someone who really wanted to go is a disgrace. I had four people ask to use my fiances ticket, but she wanted to go.
What was Chockos finals recored in his first four years coaching? 1999-2002 1/5 or 20%. Its a compliment to Craigy that you compare his recored with one of the AFL's better coaches. But as a supporter the 05/06/07 season all ended disapointingly. But for a coach to make two Prelims in his first two full years coaching is a fair effort.
From a marketing prospective ( I aint an expert) Port would be a an easy club to market. When you think Port Adelaide you think success and winning premierships. Maybe if the club understood it identity and went for the tradition angle, they could come up with some emotion stirring ads and slogans. Chad running away from his shadow was pathetic. But showing Premiership cups being lifted and players kicking goals gets the footy public excited. As does a positive slogan. It works for the Crows....
Funny how Chocko only plays these guys Thomson and Lower when he has conceded the season. Thomson and Lower could of comanded a spot after the first four losses, with no team changes. Thomas seems to be in his starting 22 (injuries keeping him out), as he should be. Farmer should work his way in and is younger than the other three. Chockos preferred game plan is based around fast free flowing movement of the ball and minimal contests. It make S Burger and Pearce look good. Every goal you kicked last week was when Carlton allowed this to happen. It is Entertaining and is what the club has determined will get the kids in to watch the team.
Port wont come back to the finals till they play, tough physical footy like they did in 01-04. As well as play the players capable of it. Every team that has won a flag this century has played that way. I dont rate Port as a rabble, far from it, a few tinkers here and there and you guys will be back up there, as long as those changes occur.
There has NEVER been any question about the players wanting to win.
Players DON'T TANK (not that we know of anyway)! CLUB ADMIN's and COACHES TANK!
I am sick of debating if TANKING is deliberately throwing a game, or not putting the best side out on the park, or trying out youngsters, or WHO is tanking etc........if the WHOLE CLUB is not going out to win 100% (players, admin, coaching staff, doctors etc), then the club is TANKING....for whatever reason that may be.....even to put players out for ops thant could be done post season!!!!
Fans who pay their hard earnt deserve better than a team that has sent their stars off for surgery that could be done post season, or who are trying out youngsters, or who want to lose for a higher draft pick
I understand thats your position, and you're entitled to your opinion.
All I'm saying is WHOLE CLUBS, if you want to use that terminology, have done this regularly in the past, before the draft came in, in the name of list management.
So if thats the case, surely the only real measure we have is if there are 22 players going their hardest out on the ground on any given day or not - something that as you rightly point out has never been in question. So for me its not a big issue, certainly not as big as alot make it out to be.
Its just more of a problem now coz of the way the draft is structured. While its definately not perfect, I still haven't heard a better idea.
Yeah, it's like the Mr Plow ad. Still, better than the kid who "needs more power!"
I generally agree with all of that - so recruiting isn't the problem (well, the forward line is another matter).
Back to the main point - the starting 22 wasn't balanced at the beginning of the year, and besides injuries, the latest selections have actually started to redress that balance. That's tanking? If Senior Burger was dropped again, tanking talk would intensify, even though if you asked most Port supporters, that would be akin to manna from Heaven!
Yep 15 wins, 2nd on the ladder, defeat the 3rd and 4th place teams in finals... incredibly soft....
I wonder if 13 wins to a premiership is soft?
It's not about what you say, but how you perform.
Spot the difference
Carlton 2002-2007 H&A 16th, 15th, 11th, 16th, 16th, 15th
Port Adelaide 2002-2007 H&A 1st, 1st, 1st, 8th, 12th, 2nd
As I said earlier Carlton were smart. Ratten was given the nod for the job so there was no pressure pn him to perform, he could afford to develop the kids without any fear and winning became irrelevant.
It wasn't so much a 1st pick, it was three 1st picks in a row that led the to the whole 'carltank' trolling.
There were also other side issues as well, for example Gibbs. At first I didn't really care that he wasn't going to go to Adelaide as a father/son selection but then when someone here explained to me the rules changes that effectively ruled it out I realised how completely unfair it was to the Crows. Carlton were in the right place at the right time to benefit from their misfortune which probably added to the venom directed at you guys.
If we're talking tanking - you realise those numbers are more of an indictment on Port than Carlton, yeah?
I love how Crows supporters stomp their feet and feign indignance and become holier than thou in threads like this.
The odd tantrum from Carlton supporters is pretty funny also.
Maybe you guys should meet at Flinders Street station, paint up some banners and march to AFL house spouting on about the evils of those wharfie feral scum.
Comedy gold
Please keep going.
The odd tantrum from Carlton supporters is pretty funny also.
Maybe you guys should meet at Flinders Street station, paint up some banners and march to AFL house spouting on about the evils of those wharfie feral scum.
Comedy gold
Please keep going.
- Banned
- #72
I love how Crows supporters stomp their feet and feign indignance and become holier than thou in threads like this.
The odd tantrum from Carlton supporters is pretty funny also.
Maybe you guys should meet at Flinders Street station, paint up some banners and march to AFL house spouting on about the evils of those wharfie feral scum.
Comedy gold
Please keep going.
I'm not sure you of all people should be pointing the finger at anyone for the quality of their contributions.
My definition of tanking would be making selection choices that you would not otherwise make if there were no draft picks on offer. Anything other than that is not tanking, it is developing the list. Sending players off for surgery so that they are cherry ripe for next year and getting some game time into developing players is not tanking.
Selecting Toby Thurstans and Nathan Lonie comes close but unfortunately chocco selects them because he genuinely thinks they might make it.
Port are picking a team to give them the best chance of developing their list, not a team to give them a better chance of losing.
p.s. I know that picking the team that gives them the best chance of developing their list also gives them a greater chance of losing but as that isnt the reasoning behind it it isnt tanking.
Selecting Toby Thurstans and Nathan Lonie comes close but unfortunately chocco selects them because he genuinely thinks they might make it.
Port are picking a team to give them the best chance of developing their list, not a team to give them a better chance of losing.
p.s. I know that picking the team that gives them the best chance of developing their list also gives them a greater chance of losing but as that isnt the reasoning behind it it isnt tanking.
Correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't there a situation last year against melbourne, where carlton were a couple pts up at 3/4 time or something against melbourne, then left Fev off for the whole last 1/4 (when he was dominating).
Or was i misinformed (i didnt see the game in question), if this is the case, that is way Carlton were bagged for tanking, if not the case, then, yes perhaps Carlton were unfairly treated last year.
Either way the AFL needs to fix this problem, i believe they need to somehow go back to zones, which will encourage clubs to actually really put money into the development of grassroots football.
I hate this current system.
Whenever we refer to being an old club with tradition, we get slammed in the media, and are constantly told that we are alienating the possible now supporters that grew up disliking Port. Even though that is the reason we got in the AFL, and we should market us that way!!
What is the slogan that works for the crows???
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