Is Gary Rohan the worst finals player of all time?
- Thread starter Young Gun #6
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- Jun 2, 2011
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Not sure where all this danger flop in finals comes from?
Sc scores from his finals
2020 - 88, 88, 162, 90
2019 - 101, 85, 147
2018 - 79
2017 - 119, 135, 101
2016 - 146, 121
With the crows
2015 - 121, 121
Yes their is the old game but out of the 15 finals I’d say almost have of them would be very good games if not best on.
Sc scores from his finals
2020 - 88, 88, 162, 90
2019 - 101, 85, 147
2018 - 79
2017 - 119, 135, 101
2016 - 146, 121
With the crows
2015 - 121, 121
Yes their is the old game but out of the 15 finals I’d say almost have of them would be very good games if not best on.
Genuinely a case of trying to hard.
Ballantyne went all out and it just wrecked his game.
Not sure he was ever a "fwd"Greg Williams kicked 5 in 95.
He was under 184cms
Yeah, Rantall eked out another six games that year to set a new mark of 336. Bartlett broke the record in the first final.
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Moons has been on record a few times about how embarrassed he was by it and how to this day he doesn’t feel like he was a premiership winner that year. It clearly affected him.
On the thread subject it’s hard to argue.
What I find most bizarre is this:
To find the ball you need two things above all else:
- speed, in order to get near it
- the ability to read the ball so that when you are near it you know with a reasonable degree of accuracy where abouts it’s going to fall or spill.
Rohan has more speed than just about anyone. Players like Duncan and Selwood just from Geelong alone would kill to have that sort of pace.
If his marking both contested and uncontested in home and away games is anything to go by, his reading of the ball is actually quite good, at LEAST when it’s in the air.
So while I can see how he might have quiet games in terms of scoring - everybody does - I can’t work out how he so consistently fails to get touches
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RichLeMonde
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I think that narrative is really overplayed. Danger's finals record is very good overall.
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No he wouldn’t.
Dangerfield’s worst finals at least still see him win plenty of ball, much of it contested, with his disposal often letting him down. Like his worst home and away games.
The difference is that every final he plays is against good or elite opposition. So the damage in return can be worse than normal.
Dangerfield’s career average is about 24 touches and 1.1 goals a game. His finals averages are 23.9 touches and 1.05 goals a game.
I’m not sure what his disposal efficiency is in home and away and finals but his clanger average is actually clearly better in finals.
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This. He’s not dusty. Martin is famous for actually playing BETTER in finals. It’s very very very rare and to his credit he’s done it.
It doesn’t mean someone has to do the same to still be considered a good finals player. Someone like Paul Chapman for us was a player who from memory actually got better in finals in terms of things like goals and contested possession percentage but it didn’t make him a better finals player than say, Jimmy Bartel who’s level was pretty consistent across all games generally.
I’m the first to say I’d love to see Danger rip a couple of finals matches to pieces and etch himself into folklore but he is absolutely nowhere near this sort of conversation as some sort of perennial finals underachiever
Pressure. It affects everyone different.
Of those two attributes, while he has number one in bucketloads, number two has always been a question at senior level. He's played 163 games and still only averages 9.7 touches and 1.1 goals a game. Sorry, that's just not good enough. No matter how much modern "he's an impact player" spin is applied. He's never been good at finding the footy. Just the way it is.
Chaisa
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He had a poor 2020 GF (especially when lined up against Martin), which seems to have inflated the reputation. I don't think I heard the finals choker claim before that.
Osho
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SuperCoach points!
ROAR!
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As said earlier, his per game stats are virtually identical. There is no metric by which you could say he gets worse during finals football
Osho
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Bartlett was an outrageous footballer. A terrific runner. Fast and stamina. As a 20 yo 3 goals in a granny, 2 in the last quarter, in an extremely tense game. No richmond player in that side had played in a final before 67. 13 years later 21 goals in 3 finals.
The contra Rowan.
Also little impact in the 2020 QF loss to Port Adelaide, completely disappeared in the 2nd half of the 2019 Prelim, disappointing in the 2018 Elimination final v Melbourne, and no impact in our two big losses in 2017 (to Richmond and Adelaide).
He's not a finals choker. But underperformer is reasonable in recent seasons.
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Thanks for clearing it up.
Danger is no Danger when the stakes are high.
Not sure about the cows but he has been dreadful for Geelong in finals. You should watch some football instead of looking at stats.
- 23 touches and 9 turnovers against Port while his opponents chopped us up.
- 12 touches in the 2020 grand final. Shocking
- 17 touches against Brisbane 2020 Prelim. No impact. Did get 4 goals the previous week in a thrashing against Collingwood
- who can forget his game against melb 27 touches for 12 turnovers or another final against Richmond where he had 30 touches with a third of them turn overs.
And that's ignoring the fact he does no defensive running and his direct opponent has been bog multiple times in finals.
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And to be fair, West Coast were underdogs in the 2002-04 finals, the latter of which was a stormy game. Then in that 2005 QF the injury. West Coast also never kicked a high score in any of his finals from 1997-2005, their highest was kicking 12 against North (before being rundown in the last quarter) and he managed a 3.5. It was an era when the team were often making up the numbers, playing some home finals away, and never belting anyone in finals.
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Aside from his two 4 goal sudden death finals performances and his two prelims where he’s probably been our best or in our best two players
The devil is always in the detail. Stats alone don't tell the full story.
And this is the detail.
Danger is a better H&A player than he is finals player. Easily.
Martin is a better finals player than he is a H&A player. Easily.*
* Aside from 2017 where his season is one of the best on record across H&A and finals.
Martin is also the consumate team player. He plays to make his teammates better. He gets as much enjoyment as dishing off a goal as he does kicking it himself. Same cannot be said of Dangerfield. I could never say that of him.
I don't think he deserves inclusion with those other names listed as someone who had many great finals.
In the 2012 finals series you reference as him being useless, he picked up 26 possessions, 16 contested, 4 clearances, 4 tackles and kicked 2 goals 3 (and a goal assist) in the Preliminary Final. He had a huge last quarter, including kicking the winning goal and was easily best on ground. Hawthorn, without a doubt, miss the Grand Final without him.
Edit: Even though you say finals and 2012, I now realise you probably meant the Grand Final in isolation (which to me is a bit silly following a best on ground effort). You are correct to an extent though, Cyril was not dominant that day - he had a standard day with 14 touches (15 his average), 8 contested, a couple of contested marks, 4 tackles and a goal assist. Decent for a small forward (certainly not useless) but obviously not a dominant day.
As for Jetta "burning him off", that has added to the mythology over the years (replay on Youtube if you are keen). Cyril starts several metres behind Jetta and is gaining on him until he needs to dodge a shepherd. In the end (with the asistance of a shepherd) Jetta maintains the gap long enough to dispose of the ball (with Cyril again gaining late). It probably showed they were about even for pace (given Jetta has the ball). We all know Jetta is fast so not sure why it was built up so much afterward.
Agree, however, with the general sentiment that it is hard for small forwards to consistently impact finals.
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Pretty good record.
4 out of 14 finals.
Like I said.
For his standing if I was the cats I'd expect more.
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