Analysis Is Leppa the Right Man for the Job?

[POBT]

I think the point is that it would be rare for two consecutive poor seasons to culminate in zero change. The coach changes, the administration changes, the playing group changes or some combination of that occurs. A season of less than 4 wins cannot be sold to stakeholders as "we're on the right track", particularly when it comes on the back of multiple years of poor performance.

 

[POBT]

Lets be honest here. The Senior players are the ones under performing. I think they should be shipped off and quick smart.

I was going to say that the notion that there is dissatisfaction within the ranks is somewhat reflected in the less than selfless way some of our senior players are approaching their footy at the moment. I'm not suggesting it is deliberate but it appears real to me.

 

[SizeMatters]

Either way I expect some senior players to be traded out to set an example.

 

[Bucking Beads]

I was going to say that the notion that there is dissatisfaction within the ranks is somewhat reflected in the less than selfless way some of our senior players are approaching their footy at the moment. I'm not suggesting it is deliberate but it appears real to me.

It is almost too easy for us to sack the coach at this point. I don't solve a thing. I feel if these players are causing issues and not putting in as they should it is a better decision to flip them. The Senior players will only try the same thing on again if we bring in another coach.

 

[Kevvo]

Either way I expect some senior players to be traded out to set an example.

My guess is that you're probably right about this. We seem to have had cultural problems a lot longer than Leppitsch has been here. I'd be really surprised if our relatively more experienced administrators and football staff (Matthews, Swann, I'm sure Lambert will have a say) aren't well aware of that.

 

[SizeMatters]

What runs on the board? He hasn't made the finals with Gold Coast when according to their own chairman they should be competing for premiership by now? If he is that great at man management why did 2 of his stars leave because bad behaviour? When they had a reasonable run with injuries they still couldn't beat us? And the media thing is exactly that experience. Leppa will learn how to engage the just a matter of time

The Suns chairman said they will be competing for the premiership now a few years ago... when they had a fairly balanced side with a plethora of promising youngsters. It was more a marketing ploy than anything. Eade had nothing to do with the likes of Dixon, Bennell, and Caddys actions during their time under McKenna. If you want to go down that route you may as well blame Leppa for the go home 5.

Eade doesn't have man management issues... any decent coach would have got rid of Bennell and Dixon... FFS one was taking drugs and the other was publicly disregarding team off field standards. Not sure what problem you have with Eade is. The problem behind the Suns was the lack of leadership shown by the senior players and Guy McKenna which they have remedied with the typical fallout from such action. Dixon and Bennell had to go as part of the cultural shift in the team. Just remember that the Suns are a QLD team in the exact same position as we are. They will have the same retention problems, the same irrelevance as us and they also have some of the worse facilities in the game (although will be getting a major boost after Commonwealth games).

 

[SRH17]

Article says that the senior football person would be responsible for, amongst other things, sorting out player unrest.
I mean, seriously. They have access to the Lamberts who are putting their heart and soul into this football club - what else do they need.
Getting a bit fed up with these blokes, time for them to sit back and have a think about what they are inflicting on us all.

 

[M Malice]

totally hypothetical- if it comes down to disgruntled attitudes from senior players being the reason for their down performances i would be all for letting these players go. from what i have read/seen re form, re signing negotiations, media statements the players under the microscope seem to be rocky, pearce, squizzy and green, none of these IMO have the earned status to use player power as a means of getting rid of a coach.

on the other hand the young players by and large are on board with leppa witnessed by mass re signings of the younger group. the knifing of a senior coach by senior players would set an extremely bad example for these younger players going forward.

 

[SRH17]

I miss the likes of Lappin and Power who just went about their business with no fuss and didn't carry on like rock stars.

 

[Happy_Neale]

It's funny - I don't think Leppa should be coach next year but at the same time, I would rather we persisted with him and got rid of the senior players supposedly causing this unrest if that is what has been happening. At the very least you know Leppitsch is going to put the needs of the club before any individuals, including himself, not sure we can say the same for all at the club.

 

[lioninthesand]

SEN is overdrive this morning about the Lions - 2 hours straight.

Thought there would be pages upon pages of discussion already. Denham reporting there is a player revolt building, that this is information coming through several managers and that the AFL is seriously concerned about the situation in Brisbane - and that they spoke to Gubby Allen about returning. Reporting that things have spiraled out of control again and the player / coach relationships are irreparable - when challenged by one caller to stop with the gossip - he re-worded strongly 'take this as gospel' he was unrelenting in his view that this genuine and very real.

So yes I know that no one in the entire landscape is fit to write about our plight etc and that the media are animals coming to feed on our carcass but the smoke has gotten very thick again.

I am not taking Denham as pure gospel but lets face it, as a whole picture things are coming to head.. again.

It was his view it is either move on several players, young and old, or Leppa - because it is that bad.

Walls and KB then went onto discussing suitable replacements.

I am just reporting the tone of a very long very indepth convo, hoping to build on discussion, I am not suggesting this proves anything about Leppa or justify's any particular view, but it must be acknowledged IMO, things are intensifying.

It should be acknowledged - similar story's started flying last year and it all came to nothing, so this may be the same case again.

 

[M Malice]

greg swan coming up in the next hour on SEN to reply to the stories today by greg denham and patrick smith.

 

[Gadzorks]

Information from player managers - now they wouldn't have anything to gain from outside pressure on the club forcing the club to resign marginal players on too high contacts would they?

 

[Ironmonger]

My read of Denham is that he tends to hear a whisper of something and then report on it with much more certainty than it deserves.

Although in this case he doesn't really say all that much.

The reality is there aren't actually all that many 'senior' players left from before Leppitsch took over. It's really just Merrett, Martin, Hanley, Zorko, Rich and Rockliff. If there is an underlying kernel of truth in the article it's probably that one or two of that group are upset over something.

Denham and Smith probably collaborated in some way, even if one was just feeding info to the other. In that context it's an odd contradiction that Smith describes the 2009 trade period as the beginning of the club's problems (dubious) and Denham presents one of the architects of that trade period in Gubby Allan as the club's potential saviour.

 

[Skoob]

If I put my dodgy AFL reporter hat on, and I'm looking for a "scoop" I'd look straight to Brisbane and suggest all is rotten and either a number of players go or the coach goes. Pretty safe bet given;

• Team performance has been terrible.
• Captain withdrew contract from table
• Our most recent rising star hasn't signed
• Our leading goal kicker of yesteryear hasn't signed
• Everyone is speculating about the coach's future.

I mean, what are the chances that come end of the year either some players leave a club or the coach of the worst performed club is moved on? No names (other than the coach) so there will be nothing to disprove your "scoop".
Anything's possible, but I reckon if there were a player "revolt", someone in Brisbane, constantly in touch with the club, either one of 3 close journos or several well connected supporters would have heard before a Melbourne hack reporter, yet nothing.
The beauty of the "hack" searching for a story, is that they will feed off each other and point to each other's speculation as evidence. Already, Tom Browne is applauding Denham as having his finger on the pulse, as this supports his assertions that the AFL rushed up here to sort us out. The same anonymous player managers the trusty source.

 

[dlanod]

Denham and Smith probably collaborated in some way, even if one was just feeding info to the other. In that context it's an odd contradiction that Smith describes the 2009 trade period as the beginning of the club's problems (dubious) and Denham presents one of the architects of that trade period in Gubby Allan as the club's potential saviour.

From when I used to read the Australian it was very common for Denham to "report" on the AFL, and then Patrick Smith would write an accompanying opinion piece based off Denham's article.

 

[James North]

I agree with the article - several senior players have mostly had a revolting year.

 

[Skoob]

My read of Denham is that he tends to hear a whisper of something and then report on it with much more certainty than it deserves.

Although in this case he doesn't really say all that much.

The reality is there aren't actually all that many 'senior' players left from before Leppitsch took over. It's really just Merrett, Martin, Hanley, Zorko, Rich and Rockliff. If there is an underlying kernel of truth in the article it's probably that one or two of that group are upset over something.

Denham and Smith probably collaborated in some way, even if one was just feeding info to the other. In that context it's an odd contradiction that Smith describes the 2009 trade period as the beginning of the club's problems (dubious) and Denham presents one of the architects of that trade period in Gubby Allan as the club's potential saviour.

I actually don't see much connection between the 2 stories, other than giving each other/feeding off each other's publicity. Smith really is just giving an opinion that either the coach or players are to blame for our current state and that one or the other should go. He's not even really that this is the case, other than obviously the players haven't been doing a good job. It's a nothing observation that the club has made errors and that's why we are where we're at.

 

[lioninthesand]

I feel like last year (in a general sense), the media as a whole got our internal situation pretty spot on early in the piece, Rocky's captaincy style was reported early through sources.. and it has become an ongoing issue, player welfare was addressed, general club turmoil has been exposed. After a few months of these sorts of stories it culminated in some admissions from the club, a focus on player welfare and an internal review of the Senior coach, plus a change in coaching philosophy from Leppa (to his credit).

I hope they are not as 'near the mark' this year with what they are apparently hearing from their sources, because we really don't have anywhere to turn this time, unless the AFL want to step in with a massive assistance package.

Some may take this as support for the stories, it's not really - Denhams article was pretty weak.. but as a whole picture this smoke is getting really thick and that's not just about Leppa - that is in relation to the idea that the whole club is in turmoil, as mentioned by a lot of posters here.

 

[Ironmonger]

I actually don't see much connection between the 2 stories, other than giving each other/feeding off each other's publicity. Smith really is just giving an opinion that either the coach or players are to blame for our current state and that one or the other should go. He's not even really that this is the case, other than obviously the players haven't been doing a good job. It's a nothing observation that the club has made errors and that's why we are where we're at.

Perhaps you're right. Maybe the Smith article was broadly written a while back and the Oz editors were just looking for an opportune moment to publish it.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Knowing what I know, if Leppa is the only major casualty of this season and the consequences don't flow down to some sacred cows in the senior playing ranks, then I will have basically zero hope for any modicum of success from this club in the short to medium term.

Our young, next-gen Lions need far better leadership than they are getting. Cut out the rot before the whole place gets gangrene.

Voss must be shaking his head in utter disbelief at the Groundhog Day shit that is unfolding up here. Spinning our wheels in the mud for three more years.

 

[lioninthesand]

Knowing what I know, if Leppa is the only major casualty of this season and the consequences don't flow down to some sacred cows in the senior playing ranks, then I will have basically zero hope for any modicum of success from this club in the short to medium term.

I am with you on this now Mate, something has to give, I hope - if a new coach comes in - an honest review is had and those creating this turmoil, are shipped out.

 

[M Malice]

Knowing what I know, if Leppa is the only major casualty of this season and the consequences don't flow down to some sacred cows in the senior playing ranks, then I will have basically zero hope for any modicum of success from this club in the short to medium term.

Our young, next-gen Lions need far better leadership than they are getting. Cut out the rot before the whole place gets gangrene.

Voss must be shaking his head in utter disbelief at the Groundhog Day shit that is unfolding up here. Spinning our wheels in the mud for three more years.

sacred cows in the senior playing ranks? rockliff? hanley? merrett? or all 3?

 

[Ironmonger]

If I put my dodgy AFL reporter hat on, and I'm looking for a "scoop" I'd look straight to Brisbane and suggest all is rotten and either a number of players go or the coach goes. Pretty safe bet given;

• Team performance has been terrible.
• Captain withdrew contract from table
• Our most recent rising star hasn't signed
• Our leading goal kicker of yesteryear hasn't signed
• Everyone is speculating about the coach's future.

I mean, what are the chances that come end of the year either some players leave a club or the coach of the worst performed club is moved on? No names (other than the coach) so there will be nothing to disprove your "scoop".
Anything's possible, but I reckon if there were a player "revolt", someone in Brisbane, constantly in touch with the club, either one of 3 close journos or several well connected supporters would have heard before a Melbourne hack reporter, yet nothing.
The beauty of the "hack" searching for a story, is that they will feed off each other and point to each other's speculation as evidence. Already, Tom Browne is applauding Denham as having his finger on the pulse, as this supports his assertions that the AFL rushed up here to sort us out. The same anonymous player managers the trusty source.

This is very true. Anyone can make up vague references to problems at the club and then claim validation when the club makes inevitable changes.

There's just no accountability.

 

[lioninthesand]

This is very true. Anyone can make up vague references to problems at the club and then claim validation when the club makes inevitable changes.

There's just no accountability.

It is 100% true. There are also some journos with amazing contacts who can give you a little insight into the workings of a club - in the NBA as a fan you learn what reporters you can trust and others you can't. In the AFL it is a lot tougher to sift through the shock jocks and BS artists, very few have good track records. AFL clubs are also notoriously closed off to media leaving it to guess work, however, I think some have good contacts. Caro is one who I really trust and as much as Hammo is hated on this board he has a pretty good read on Brisbane IMO.