Is Lonergan or Rooke a better option than Taylor?

[year of the cat]

It was apparent of Friday night that young Harry was exposed on a much bigger, more experienced player. It is pretty obvious that he will continue to struggle this year on the larger forwards that he is being asked to play against.

He has certainly done a great job for a guy that is a first year player, but I think as the year goes on he will find it increasingly more difficult to play against the monsters in Brown, Pavlich, Franklin, Hall and Cloke.

We need to have a plan B. Surely either Lonergan or Rooke would be better options. They are both bigger bodies, although Rooke may struggle for height. With Egan not coming back we have to have another option. Harley (there you go Martyk) struggles one on one against these players so I don't think he is an option either.

The only other play I can think of is to release Scarlett from full back to play on the best forward. It may limit his attacking effect but that may have to be sacrificied in order to limit further damage on the scoreboard.

Thoughts?

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Taylor's a good young kid. I reckon he'll be a very good player.

Playing on Cloke when you have played less than ten games is monumental task.

If Lonergan keeps playing good footy, he will find a spot soon.

 

[rizzo]

Jumping at shadows.

Before this game Taylor had been huge for us. A kid with 7 games experience will always drop off a little.

Harry will bounce back this week and give Fisher a hiding.

 

[HulkHawkins]

Harry held his own against Johnno Brown and Richo in the pre season, he's young and is allowed to have an off game here and there.

Personally i doubt whether Rooke would be a better option because of the height factor and Lonergan isn't up to it.

I don't even think he's been named in the best players for the VFL side for a few weeks now, so i find it very hard that he'd even be considered.

Harry definitely for mine and Rooke has a spot in the team too, but not at Harry's expense.

 

[cats2rise]

Taylor is fine and deserves to keep his spot. Although he had an off night, he did a few things that still showed why he will be an important player for us in the future.

Rooke should come back into the midfield/small defenders roll while I would like to see Lonergon back in the team, but I cant see where we can put him bar injuries.

 

[BigKegs]

Nothing wrong with Taylor. Yes he got torn a new one but Egan was perfect last year either. He was unlucky to be smashed in such a big game but persist with him, he'll be really good.

 

[PUSSIES_07_FLAG]

Please.... Taylor was throw off so easily it wasn't funny.

His spot must be looked at.

 

[scottydeewah]

hehe we are back in the "drop X player" even though we dont have a better replacement zone...I can feel it sucking me in

 

[year of the cat]

Just asking the question....

 

[Brasil2007]

I had my doubts on him after the pre-season Saints game, but I have to say while he has a lot to learn, he's been good since. If he can play out the rest of the season he'll be a much better player come finals time.

 

[Just do something]

I had my doubts on him after the pre-season Saints game, but I have to say while he has a lot to learn, he's been good since. If he can play out the rest of the season he'll be a much better player come finals time.

The question will be does he get a rest at some stage as we do tend to rest the young kids or first year players and then who gets the gig??

I cant see Loners getting a go unless they start playing him down back in the magoos.

 

[Johnson#26]

NO!

Again, sorry to jump in, but Taylor and Lonergan are far, far better players than Rooke. Besides, Taylor can hold down a KP in defence while Egan is injured.

 

[thegerman]

Taylor is a KPP, Rooke isn't.

Taylor played against JB and cleaned him up. He has also taken on bigger opponents and beat them too. Remember last year Cloke did a fantastic job on both Egan and Scarlett.

We need another KPP due to the Egan injury, Rooke doesn't match that. I'd also hate to say it, but neither does Lonners at this stage.

 

[Just do something]

Taylor is a KPP, Rooke isn't.

Taylor played against JB and cleaned him up. He has also taken on bigger opponents and beat them too. Remember last year Cloke did a fantastic job on both Egan and Scarlett.

We need another KPP due to the Egan injury, Rooke doesn't match that. I'd also hate to say it, but neither does Lonners at this stage.

Yep that really is our biggest worry having another back up Key backmen.It really means that Milburn will need to do some big jobs if Harry struggles early in games.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

NO!

Again, sorry to jump in, but Taylor and Lonergan are far, far better players than Rooke. Besides, Taylor can hold down a KP in defence while Egan is injured.

Rooke can play.

 

[Partridge]

Taylor is a KPP, Rooke isn't.

Taylor played against JB and cleaned him up. He has also taken on bigger opponents and beat them too. Remember last year Cloke did a fantastic job on both Egan and Scarlett.

We need another KPP due to the Egan injury, Rooke doesn't match that. I'd also hate to say it, but neither does Lonners at this stage.

Agreed.

Not sure why Rooke is even mentioned, he hasn't been a defender for 3 years. Moving him into the midfield is what made him a senior player, so forget him as an option.

Taylor got exposed because Collingwood are one of the few sides with two big key forwards. Hence Scarlett already had to mind someone. That won't occur every week. Taylor is still our best option at centre half back.

Look at the fixture, we don't play Brisbane again, so no need to worry about Brown & Bradshaw. We don't play St.Kilda again, so Riewoldt and Kosi (or Gehrig) aren't a factor. We don't play Collingwood again. Apart from Hawthorn there isn't anyone else with two big key forwards. I wouldn't throw the entire defensive structure out when most games having Scarlett and Taylor should be sufficient.

Finally, the big factor not mentioned is supply. If our midfield gets slaughtered like it did Friday night it doesn't matter who is playing back there. It was like holding back a tidal wave with an umbrella.

 

[Johnson#26]

Rooke can play.

Sorry mate. I rate you guys extremely highly like most, and the majority of your side commands respect, but I honestly have never understood the hype (well, not so much hype, but general...talk) about Rooke. There are better (Prismall, Davenport) players in your twos.

 

[cats2rise]

Rooke is one of the hardest midfielders in our team. He gets the nod.

 

[year of the cat]

Agreed.

Not sure why Rooke is even mentioned, he hasn't been a defender for 3 years. Moving him into the midfield is what made him a senior player, so forget him as an option.

Taylor got exposed because Collingwood are one of the few sides with two big key forwards. Hence Scarlett already had to mind someone. That won't occur every week. Taylor is still our best option at centre half back.

Look at the fixture, we don't play Brisbane again, so no need to worry about Brown & Bradshaw. We don't play St.Kilda again, so Riewoldt and Kosi (or Gehrig) aren't a factor. We don't play Collingwood again. Apart from Hawthorn there isn't anyone else with two big key forwards. I wouldn't throw the entire defensive structure out when most games having Scarlett and Taylor should be sufficient.

Finally, the big factor not mentioned is supply. If our midfield gets slaughtered like it did Friday night it doesn't matter who is playing back there. It was like holding back a tidal wave with an umbrella.

There is this little thing called "finals" where we could be facing any of these teams. I reckon that you lot may be dreaming if you think that a first year AFL player can hold down a key defensive role all year and into September.

As I stated in my earlier post, I reckon Taylor has been terrific and has a bright future. But he was, in my opinion, flattered in his performances against Pavlich and Riewoldt. Brisbane didn't have Brown playing for them when we played them. Cloke gave him a bath. Even Joel Bowden comprehensively beat him in two one-on-one contests to kick goals last Saturday. Teams will have worked it out by now that if you isolate Taylor one out you have a better than even chance of winning a strength contest with him.

This is no criticism of him. You cannot expect a first year player to do what is currently being asked of him. However, you can see if a Lonergan who is bigger and stronger, can step up and assume this role. Equally, you could rejig the backline to have Rooke playing a taller role than he has been, perhaps getting support from the likes of Harley and Milburn.

Collingwood are not the only team with two big key forwards. Hawthorn have Buddy and Roughead, and they currently appear to be the biggest threat to us going back to back. Collingwood we could very well meet again in a prelim final at night as we did last year.

I am not having a whinge. Just reckon that other avenues may need exploring when we take on particularly the hawks and pies. Against the bulldogs and crows it may not be as crucial.

 

[Partridge]

There is this little thing called "finals" where we could be facing any of these teams. I reckon that you lot may be dreaming if you think that a first year AFL player can hold down a key defensive role all year and into September.

As I stated in my earlier post, I reckon Taylor has been terrific and has a bright future. But he was, in my opinion, flattered in his performances against Pavlich and Riewoldt. Brisbane didn't have Brown playing for them when we played them. Cloke gave him a bath. Even Joel Bowden comprehensively beat him in two one-on-one contests to kick goals last Saturday. Teams will have worked it out by now that if you isolate Taylor one out you have a better than even chance of winning a strength contest with him.

This is no criticism of him. You cannot expect a first year player to do what is currently being asked of him. However, you can see if a Lonergan who is bigger and stronger, can step up and assume this role. Equally, you could rejig the backline to have Rooke playing a taller role than he has been, perhaps getting support from the likes of Harley and Milburn.

Collingwood are not the only team with two big key forwards. Hawthorn have Buddy and Roughead, and they currently appear to be the biggest threat to us going back to back. Collingwood we could very well meet again in a prelim final at night as we did last year.

I am not having a whinge. Just reckon that other avenues may need exploring when we take on particularly the hawks and pies. Against the bulldogs and crows it may not be as crucial.

Agree to an extent. But honestly after our performance Friday night we can't think about finals. We've got to focus just on the home and away season. If we don't think about the best side for this week against Carlton - and only the side against Carlton - it'll be 2006 all over again. Maybe Lonergan could take Taylor's spot, but he's the only serious option. I don't like Rooke playing in defence as I don't think he's ever done well there. He's a much, much more effective player around the middle of the ground.

 

[year of the cat]

Agree to an extent. But honestly after our performance Friday night we can't think about finals. We've got to focus just on the home and away season. If we don't think about the best side for this week against Carlton - and only the side against Carlton - it'll be 2006 all over again. Maybe Lonergan could take Taylor's spot, but he's the only serious option. I don't like Rooke playing in defence as I don't think he's ever done well there. He's a much, much more effective player around the middle of the ground.

This week is probably not going to matter as far as Taylor is concerned. Physically he matches up pretty well with Fisher. Hopefully the boys confidence hasn't taken too much of a hit. Incidently he was concussed on Friday night, so may not be any certainty at this stage to play.

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Sorry mate. I rate you guys extremely highly like most, and the majority of your side commands respect, but I honestly have never understood the hype (well, not so much hype, but general...talk) about Rooke. There are better (Prismall, Davenport) players in your twos.

No need to apologise. We're all entitled to our opinion

Since 2005, Rooke has really stood up IMO, especially in 2006 where we struggled.

Last year was a tough year through injury and thus far, a few niggling injuries have continued to riddle him.

I think he'll be back. Probably next week as there will be changes.

 

[martyk]

Sorry mate. I rate you guys extremely highly like most, and the majority of your side commands respect, but I honestly have never understood the hype (well, not so much hype, but general...talk) about Rooke. There are better (Prismall, Davenport) players in your twos.

Correct... Most supporters from other clubs say similar to me too. Rooke gets the 'macho' vote, when in reality his effectiveness is not great.... at all. He looks fantastic busting into packs, etc... but he doesn't get the job done.

Supporters here play favourites and Rooke is right up there. Ask any of them to give a good reason why Rooke is rated so highly by them and they'll fall miserably short with... "oh, but he's tough / hard" or the like.

Hasn't played a good game since '06 PERIOD!!

 

[chapmanmagic35]

Correct... Most supporters from other clubs say similar to me too. Rooke gets the 'macho' vote, when in reality his effectiveness is not great.... at all. He looks fantastic busting into packs, etc... but he doesn't get the job done.

Supporters here play favourites and Rooke is right up there. Ask any of them to give a good reason why Rooke is rated so highly by them and they'll fall miserably short with... "oh, but he's tough / hard" or the like.

Hasn't played a good game since '06 PERIOD!!

Most good players are.

Missed half of '07. You were always reluctant to hang it on Hunt. Why was that?

You continue to amaze, martyk.

 

[Rosso]

Cloke has kicked 4 against us in each of his past 4 outings IIRC. Apart from Friday's fiasco, he caused headaches for Dsah in the Prelim and had Ego well and truely covered half way through the year.

Taylor did struggle, but he wasn't the lone ranger out there. Cloke played his best game for the year and so he should with the pill being kicked to him every 30 seconds. All the defenders were under the pump big time Friday night and Lonners or Rookie wouldn't have had much effect if they had played.

Having said that a bit more body contact from H would be of great benefit to his game. Has been pretty good until Friday and I'm sure he'll bounce back.