Is the draw that important?

[purplesoul]

Quite often supporters will use the draw as an excuse for teams performances, or as a sledge against other teams (ie soft draw).

Surely the aim of the game is to win the premiership and good teams will win where ever they play.

For mine, I am more concerned that the draw ensures that I get the opportunity to see all teams (eg. if we do not get a home game against the Pies this year, we should next year). Also I agree that the AFL has to take blockbusters and what is going to draw the best crowds/exposure for the well being of the overall competition.

So, do you think the draw is a legitimate arguement for defending your teams or sledging other teams performance.

 

[Bombers_Forever]

Yes it is because some teams are better off than others. Unless every team plays each other twice in a season (which will never happen), there will be inequities in the competition.

 

[silky-smooth]

Quite often supporters will use the draw as an excuse for teams performances, or as a sledge against other teams (ie soft draw).

It is generally the LCD for a supporter when they struggle to find why their team finished last.

 

[Mead]

There's no doubt that the draw has a large influence, especially for middle-of-the-road sides. Who you play twice is obviously influential, but so is the venue especially when related to non-victorian teams.

Take two teams roughly similarly placed on the ladder, for arguments sake Essendon and Fremantle.

If, hypothetically Essendon gets to play Richmond, Collingwood and Hawthorn twice, and Fremantle has to play Brisbane, Port Adelaide and St Kilda twice, its impossible to think that isn't going to have a serious effect on where those teams finish, both in terms of premiership points and percentage.

By the same token, lets say that at round 21 both those sides are sitting on 11-10, and are yet to play each other. Chances are that the randomly determined venue will determine who plays finals- if the game is scheduled at the TD Essendon will 70% likely win and make the finals, if its at Subi Fremantle will 70% likely take the game.

I don't think it really has much of an effect on the extreme top and extreme bottom sides, since if you're a top 2 or 3 team you can basically take on and beat whoever comes your way.

For teams on the threshold of one area of the ladder and another though, the draw is critical. Every year the draw is the difference between 4th and 5th and 8th and 9th. If a team is finishes 5th and played Brisbane twice and RIchmond once chances are that if that was changed to playing Richmond twice and Brisbane once, they'd be 8 points and a fair whack of percentage better off.

 

[MarkT]

Not really. Good teams win, bad teams lose and average teams are inconsistent. It can impact teams around the midrange the most IMO.

Footy is a battle for a premiership and it makes bugger all difference to who wins the premiership. That generally goes to the best team. People stress about the draw. I couldn't care less myself. Unless we can beat any team any time any place we probably won't win the premiership. There are advantages and disadvantages in every aspect of the draw for every club. The only completely fair way to do it would be a random draw but that is not going to happen because there are too many security blanket junkies who won't let go. The reality the draw doesn't make much impact on ladder positions. It could very well get an also ran into or out of the finals by a game or percentage but in reality that just means the team either was or wasn't good enough to compete well enough in the national comp. with all the vagaries that entails.

 

[Hoops]

How can you call it a draw.

A draw implies there is some randomness and equality about it

It is a fixture, Fixed by the AFL to maximise $$$

 

[CyberKev]

Not really. Good teams win, bad teams lose and average teams are inconsistent. It can impact teams around the midrange the most IMO.

Footy is a battle for a premiership and it makes bugger all difference to who wins the premiership. That generally goes to the best team. People stress about the draw. I couldn't care less myself. Unless we can beat any team any time any place we probably won't win the premiership. There are advantages and disadvantages in every aspect of the draw for every club. The only completely fair way to do it would be a random draw but that is not going to happen because there are too many security blanket junkies who won't let go. The reality the draw doesn't make much impact on ladder positions. It could very well get an also ran into or out of the finals by a game or percentage but in reality that just means the team either was or wasn't good enough to compete well enough in the national comp. with all the vagaries that entails.

I could not possibly agree more...

All this bull******** about "oh we'd like to avoid this team here" and "if only we hadn't had to have played this team here" is tosh in the overall scheme of things. To win a flag you have to be the best side, and you only become the best by beating top sides. Even if you're struggling, you are only likely to improve through exposure to top sides...

The other point is that people who say "this side has an easy draw, and that side has a dog of a draw" are oblivious to the reality that the process of a football season isn't a static matter that can be assessed in black & white terms months, or even days, prior to first kick off.

Carlton having to play West Coast at Subiaco will thus look a monty for the home side right here and right now, but if match day rolls along and the Eagles are hit with an injury crisis and the Blues are in good health, it becomes a whole different ball game.

Such vagaries would come into play even if we did have all teams playing each other twice. Even in a structurally "fair" draw the fickle finger of fate will still have some sides playing an opposition below its best (for any number of reasons) while other sides will play this same opposition when its cooking with gas.

It is these vagaries that make the game so great, and why the premiership winning team must always be viewed as deserving regardless of how they win the comp.

 

[Mean Machine]

in one word........YES

Collingwood have an easier draw each year compared with ateam like West Coast who have to travel more often and have less time for rehab as some Melbourne based teams.

Not going to get into it though. 9 Vic teams means simply there are going to be some Melbourne teams that travel less.

I think last years draw was pretty good.

 

[Tas]

The draw does have an effect on where you finish, but it is impossible to predict at the time it is put together just who it actually favors. For example, last year Saints were mid-table and we got to play them twice, after last year that didn't seem like it was too bad a situation but the Saints had a fantastic year this year and that made it tougher than it was meant to be. Similarly, games against Melbourne and Geelong who were meant to be mid to low table teams became much harder games this year. That was balanced a bit by Adelaide and Hawthorn not doing as well as expected.

Good teams will still beat good opposition, at the end of the day I do not really care who we play, when or where but my only concern is that I want to see as many good drawing home games for my side so we can have a good year off-field.

Who the fixture will favor will largely depend on which teams perform better than they did this year and who performs worse than they did. Who knows, the wheels might fall off the wagon for some top 8 teams next year and what seems like a difficult draw might become a lot easier.

Overall, you still get a fair quota of winnable games and the teams that do well are those that win those winnable games. We didn't make the most of our opportunities this year, the challenge is to do that next year.

I am a little disappointed that we play teams such as Fremantle and Geelong again only once next year and it is again away games. You would think they could rotate the games around a bit from year to year, that is my only real disappointment.

 

[purplesoul]

All this bull******** about "oh we'd like to avoid this team here" and "if only we hadn't had to have played this team here" is tosh in the overall scheme of things. To win a flag you have to be the best side, and you only become the best by beating top sides. Even if you're struggling, you are only likely to improve through exposure to top sides...

The other point is that people who say "this side has an easy draw, and that side has a dog of a draw" are oblivious to the reality that the process of a football season isn't a static matter that can be assessed in black & white terms months, or even days, prior to first kick off.

Good point. Surely being exposed to the best sides can only improve the development of a team.

 

[purplesoul]

in one word........YES

Collingwood have an easier draw each year compared with ateam like West Coast who have to travel more often and have less time for rehab as some Melbourne based teams.

Not going to get into it though. 9 Vic teams means simply there are going to be some Melbourne teams that travel less.

I think last years draw was pretty good.

You would think that the travel factor for some teams would inhibit rehab, but the results this year don't seem to indicate any advantage to Vic based teams due to less travel.

 

[dA Crow]

Basically the clubs have to accept what the AFL decide when it comes to the draw, either good or bad. At the end of the day, you have to play and bet the better sides in the finals regardless of the seasons draw.

 

[CyberKev]

Good point. Surely being exposed to the best sides can only improve the development of a team.

It works the same as having young players run with experienced guns whenever you can accommodate it. They will almost certainly struggle initially, but by having a champion lead them to the ball they get an invaluable on the job education about how to read play and position themselves in the process.

 

[hatter]

Of course, let's not talk about all the vic teams staying at home in round 22 next year.

 

[Total Package]

Quite often supporters will use the draw as an excuse for teams performances, or as a sledge against other teams (ie soft draw).

So, do you think the draw is a legitimate arguement for defending your teams or sledging other teams performance.

Of course its important. I spent the best part of 4 months in here this year trying to tell every Freo supporter how overrated their team was... while you were dancing around in the streets talking about a top 4 finish.... I showed you how overrated Fremantle was becasue of their soft as butter draw... and how they were winning ugly against poor teams..... meanwhile the Eagles were losing high quality matches because of one of the hardest fixtures for a start to the year in the history of our club. Even when the Dockers were 4th on the ladder and we were 13th with 5 wins from 13 games....I was telling Dockers Supporters the Eagles would overtake them and they did.

The fact of the matter is Fremantle did not beat a top 8 side away from home all year. Remarkable given their so called Away form was outstanding as they kept telling us. That is down to nothing but the ease of the draw they had.

Thankfully while Dockers Supporters and most media scribes were conned by the Dockers away form..... those with a sharp football brain and high intelligence like myself were able to see through all the clap trap eminating from Connollys mouth and have watched and played enough football to know a poor side when I see one.

 

[Tas]

Of course its important. I spent the best part of 4 months in here this year trying to tell every Freo supporter how overrated their team was... while you were dancing around in the streets talking about a top 4 finish.... I showed you how overrated Fremantle was becasue of their soft as butter draw... and how they were winning ugly against poor teams..... meanwhile the Eagles were losing high quality matches because of one of the hardest fixtures for a start to the year in the history of our club. Even when the Dockers were 4th on the ladder and we were 13th with 5 wins from 13 games....I was telling Dockers Supporters the Eagles would overtake them and they did.

The fact of the matter is Fremantle did not beat a top 8 side away from home all year. Remarkable given their so called Away form was outstanding as they kept telling us. That is down to nothing but the ease of the draw they had.

Thankfully while Dockers Supporters and most media scribes were conned by the Dockers away form..... those with a sharp football brain and high intelligence like myself were able to see through all the clap trap eminating from Connollys mouth and have watched and played enough football to know a poor side when I see one.

Eagles were losing in early games because they had no interest in putting any defensive pressure on. If you look at the ordinary teams that kicked cricket-like scores against you its not hard to figure what went wrong. When Eagles started to put some defensively pressure on they improved out of sight, but it was too little, too late.

I dont think Freo are as bad as you make them out to be, they are probably short a few KPPs but they have a pretty good list of players. They were very inconsistant this year.

I still think Eagles are the better of the two WA teams atm but at the end of the day neither has made significant progress over last year so the pot calling the kettle black is a little ammusing.

 

[purplesoul]

Thankfully while Dockers Supporters and most media scribes were conned by the Dockers away form..... those with a sharp football brain and high intelligence like myself were able to see through all the clap trap eminating from Connollys mouth and have watched and played enough football to know a poor side when I see one.

Surely if you considered they were not good enough to make the eight, and they subsequently didn't, and you state they had a soft draw - then how can you then say the draw is important. By your rating they have probably finished where they deserved.

Therefore the draw is not important - thanks frank.

 

[Total Package]

Surely if you considered they were not good enough to make the eight, and they subsequently didn't, and you state they had a soft draw - then how can you then say the draw is important. By your rating they have probably finished where they deserved.

Yes they did finish where they deserved.... but half way through the season Dockers supporters were talking up their great away record and how they were going to finish top 4 and get the double chance. The draw is important because not everyone plays eachother twice. If the Dockers had played those other top 8 sides away from home they would have been even lower on the ladder.

 

[purplesoul]

I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I.

What are you saying frank?

 

[purplesoul]

Yes they did finish where they deserved.... but half way through the season Dockers supporters were talking up their great away record and how they were going to finish top 4 and get the double chance.

So why is the draw important if they finished where you think they deserved to. Personally I thought that they would finish 6 - 8th before and during the entire season - regardless of where they were sitting mid season.

 

[Total Package]

What are you saying frank?

Perhaps this spells it out for you a little clearer.

West Coast Eagles 22 13 0 9 2042 1968 103.76 52 (Hard Draw)
Fremantle 22 11 0 11 1882 1870 100.64 44 (Easy Draw)

 

[purplesoul]

Frank, would you like me to spell it out a little more clearly. I have not brought up Freo or WC. You have brought up Freo as an example. But when I read your example it only seems to support my original thought that the draw probably isn't important. You have stated that we probably finished the year where we deserved.

 

[Ripper]

Perhaps this spells it out for you a little clearer.

West Coast Eagles 22 13 0 9 2042 1968 103.76 52 (Hard Draw)
Fremantle 22 11 0 11 1882 1870 100.64 44 (Easy Draw)

Come on Frank. I have already shown what a dream run you had playing below strength teams and teams with nothing to play for.

And I was right. As soon as you met a team that had something to play for and was near full strength they dropped their bundle and could only manage the lowest score in a final in 44 yes thats forty-four years.

 

[medusala]

The draw is very important from a financial perspective. Its pretty much a given that if you get alot of home games to start the season you will sell more memberships and if you have a home game against Collingwood you will make big $.

 

[dogsbody]

Success on the field
The Melbourne team that plays the majority of its games in Melbourne v the Melbourne team that travels. The team that plays twice against teams towards the bottom of the ladder v the team that plays twice against teams towards the top of the ladder.

Success off the field
The team that plays in heavily promoted games against other local clubs on public holidays when there are no other games scheduled v the team that plays games on sunday afternoons against interstate teams. The team that plays games at night - particularly Friday nights v the team which plays on Sunday afternoons. The team which plays in local derbies v the team playing interstate.

Of course the draw is important.