USA Is the USA the worst nation to exist since classical times?

[barreness]

Point of order: Ukraine are being invaded; ergo, every able bodied person is being used to defend their country; having 50 year olds on the front line is only a tenable outcome for them due to desperation.

Yeh and they keep lowering the minimum, prisoners and 21yo's on the cards. Understandable as you say, desperation

Still not as bad as us using 18yo's for vietnam

China choosing to invade Taiwan, and conscripting 50 year olds to fight in a wider Pacific theatre - against America, against India, against Japan - is not an apples to apples comparison.

So, not rubbish.

India wil never get involved, doubt on Japan too. This is America trying to control the pacific, a foolish puruist of a dying hegemon. Also hypothetical at this point, China could do a slow takeover without open military action



edit sorry: The argument of demographics is a white replacment argument in disguise, look at who pushes it. The world is overpopulated and it will reduce one way or another, low birth rate is the nicest of them

 

[barreness]

What Modi would do - being the combination of right wing and opportunistic he is - is use China's distraction to take back some of the disputed border. That means that they have less force to exert on Taiwan, as they need to maintain that border almost twice as strong, or lose ground and face.

The prospect of fighting a war on either side of China - one in the mountains and one navally - would be something Xi would see as the worst possible outcome.

And face is everything in Chinese politics.

Don't think so, India has always leaned non aligned, they'll look for a trade profit from whichever side. Modi is a nationalist first and foremost, he's not fighting over some scraps in the himalayas for the liberal order

Here's the problem: in order to do this, America would have to pull back and walk back on decades of military infrastructure and precedent, and - most importantly - the military will not want to do it. Trump more than anything else needs the military on side; the reason his coup failed the first time round is because he couldn't actually spur the military to join in in part or in full.

People forget that within a dictatorship, you are still ostensibly at the whims of those with the guns: do what you want but the second they start to get discontent is the same second they begin contemplating a change of leader.

*all states, the state has has monopoly on violence, a farcade of two party democracy dosen't change that

And the military have been building opposite China for most of the past 30 years, and so have the military industrial complex. Withdrawing from all that will be... expensive politically; to this point, Trump has had the support of the NRA and weapons manufacturers. Do you really think they won't swing back round if he threatens to take away their favourite threat, 'reds under the bed'?

Yes, they'll fight china in an attempt to maintain their hegemon, and they'll lose. hopefully not in nukes but they do have a first strike policy

 

[Gethelred]

edit sorry: The argument of demographics is a white replacment argument in disguise, look at who pushes it. The world is overpopulated and it will reduce one way or another, low birth rate is the nicest of them

... sorry, what?

When I've seen this argument made, it's by theorists discussing the likelihood of China's military population continuing to grow, not population replacement. In general, they cite the failure of the One Child policy creating a situation in which there are less children, coupled with a larger wealthier middle class since the 90's in urban areas who put off marrying and having children until later in life; both having an effect on birth rates and population demographics, as the average (and median) citizen get older.

To describe this as any form of white replacement rhetoric is exceedingly dumb. It's not talking about a western nation (1), it's not talking about a rising number of non white peoples (2) and it's not even remotely considered a good or a bad thing, just a thing that has consequence for Chinas ability to project force.

 

[barreness]

... sorry, what?

When I've seen this argument made, it's by theorists discussing the likelihood of China's military population continuing to grow, not population replacement. In general, they cite the failure of the One Child policy creating a situation in which there are less children, coupled with a larger wealthier middle class since the 90's in urban areas who put off marrying and having children until later in life; both having an effect on birth rates and population demographics, as the average (and median) citizen get older.

To describe this as any form of white replacement rhetoric is exceedingly dumb. It's not talking about a western nation (1), it's not talking about a rising number of non white peoples (2) and it's not even remotely considered a good or a bad thing, just a thing that has consequence for Chinas ability to project force.

Ok sorry, I wasn't accusing you of white replacement theory, just the argument is a derivative of that

It's a weak geopolitical argument that low key racists use that thinks your army size is reflective of your birth rate

 

[Gethelred]

Ok sorry, I wasn't accusing you of white replacement theory, just the argument is a derivative of that

It's a weak geopolitical argument that low key racists use that thinks your army size is reflective of your birth rate

I'm sorry, but I still don't see it. It's entirely to do with China needing to move soon to be certain of numerical supremecy, which - from reports of how their leaders think - is what they need to ensure victory or see America off.

I'd be fine with you going further into it - justifying your position some - rather than retreating for fear of offending me. If my position is rooted in white replacement, I'd like to know how.

 

[barreness]

I'm sorry, but I still don't see it. It's entirely to do with China needing to move soon to be certain of numerical supremecy, which - from reports of how their leaders think - is what they need to ensure victory or see America off.

I'd be fine with you going further into it - justifying your position some - rather than retreating for fear of offending me. If my position is rooted in white replacement, I'd like to know how.

Ok, so I come from the position that the world will depopulate one way or another, the good ways have mostly been burnt

The demographic argument suggests that you need a bunch of 18-25yo's before your country can defend itself, at least in proportion to your older people. Hence the DRAMA over low birth rates that's going on at the moment

China has like 50 milion 18-30yo's atm, it's of no concern. If they do proper socialism then the women are getting drafted and you double it.

There's 8 billion people on the planet, there was 1.7 billion at the start of WW1. Throwing people at the front has never been easier, so why do they do it? To encourage birth rates(or policies around that) because they're racist. The only way the economic system works is by constant growth and under a falling birth rate that requires immigrants, ergo demographic freak-out is racist

Well it makes sense in my head at least hahahahaha

 

[Gethelred]

Ok, so I come from the position that the world will depopulate one way or another, the good ways have mostly been burnt

The demographic argument suggests that you need a bunch of 18-25yo's before your country can defend itself, at least in proportion to your older people. Hence the DRAMA over low birth rates that's going on at the moment

China has like 50 milion 18-30yo's atm, it's of no concern. If they do proper socialism then the women are getting drafted and you double it.

There's 8 billion people on the planet, there was 1.7 billion at the start of WW1. Throwing people at the front has never been easier, so why do they do it? To encourage birth rates(or policies around that) because they're racist. The only way the economic system works is by constant growth and under a falling birth rate that requires immigrants, ergo demographic freak-out is racist

Well it makes sense in my head at least hahahahaha

If your - the universal your, not you barreness specifically - observation of a country's births/death rate posits that there is demographic change occurring - as in, statistically, your country is getting older - and this has an effect on the ways people behave in that country - as it will with China, as families tried to have boys during One Child to carry on the family name and support them in their old age, after that is the status quo societally in China and has been for a very long time - then making the observation that there's a demographic cliff coming which will have implications concerning the sustainable size of their military does not really interact with the argument you're making above.

I think I'm arguing A, and you're arguing B. We can both be correct, because neither argument actually encounters each other.

Now, the point is not to make the observation that China is short manpower now; they clearly aren't, and have been building up to a potential confrontation for at least the last 20 years. The point is that if they don't move within the next 5-10 years, they cannot count on endless growth fuelling their economy nor a population boom to go alongside it; if that point has already been crossed - and the vids/articles I saw this in suggested it might've - then it might already be too late for Xi if he has territorial ambitions. While Ukraine can use all able-bodied people to fight for them - as in, a total war setting economically and socially - China cannot afford such simply to invade Taiwan; they need to be able to do as the US do and project force without completely pivoting their economic structure to fuel their military industrial complex.

The opportunity cost of war escalates based on a myriad of factors, and an aging population is one of them.

In short, it's not just less people actively entering into the army. It's a recontextualisation of their whole economic structure to cater for an older population making war harder to accomplish, let alone successfully.

 

[CD Xbow]

Guardian has an article discussing the terrible US maternal mortality rate, the highest in the OECD. The rate went as high as 32.9 deaths per 100,000 births over the Covid years, and last year it has fallen to 23.8, closer to historical norms. Folks of color are worse off than the average. For comparison our is 5.8 per 100,000 births.

US maternal mortality rate far higher than in peer nations, report finds

Alarming disparities persist, particularly between white and Black mothers, according to new report by Commonwealth Fund

www.theguardian.com

There are so many things that contribute to this, not having a universal health scheme is probably the main one. Poor antenatal care, lack of parental leave, racism, stupidity, lack of compassion, violence, drug use are all possible contributing factors. Remember the US spends about the same on health care as the entire rest of the world put together. They clearly are not using the 18% of GDP they spend on health very well.

 

[nut]

The real lead conspirator was the US government…

 

[Seeds]

Guardian has an article discussing the terrible US maternal mortality rate, the highest in the OECD. The rate went as high as 32.9 deaths per 100,000 births over the Covid years, and last year it has fallen to 23.8, closer to historical norms. Folks of color are worse off than the average. For comparison our is 5.8 per 100,000 births.

US maternal mortality rate far higher than in peer nations, report finds

Alarming disparities persist, particularly between white and Black mothers, according to new report by Commonwealth Fund

www.theguardian.com

There are so many things that contribute to this, not having a universal health scheme is probably the main one. Poor antenatal care, lack of parental leave, racism, stupidity, lack of compassion, violence, drug use are all possible contributing factors. Remember the US spends about the same on health care as the entire rest of the world put together. They clearly are not using the 18% of GDP they spend on health very well.

So what your saying is thread title should be changed to usa is the worst country in the oecd in modern times?

 

[schneebly111]

So what your saying is thread title should be changed to usa is the worst country in the oecd in modern times?

Yes. I’ve been to most OECD countries and would live in one of them before the US.

In fact the only place in the US I’d probably feel comfortable living is Hawaii, the part of America the furthest away from the rest of it!

 

[Seeds]

Yes. I’ve been to most OECD countries and would live in one of them before the US.

In fact the only place in the US I’d probably feel comfortable living is Hawaii, the part of America the furthest away from the rest of it!

You would rather live in Mexico or Chile than the usa?

 

[schneebly111]

You would rather live in Mexico or Chile than the usa?

Yes. Some great parts of Mexico and Chile that are safe, beautiful and relaxed. There’s dangerous parts of both nations but America has dangerous locations all over, and would you rather live along the Yucatan coast or rural Alabama?

 

[CD Xbow]

So what your saying is thread title should be changed to usa is the worst country in the oecd in modern times?

Yes, perhaps it would be more accurate, not that it would change peoples responses much.

Interesting times though. Will the dems finally put Bernie Biden to rest? Who would be the candidates? I thought Biden would have stepped out of the preselection at least 6 months before the election to give a new candidate time to establish themselves. Can't stop stupid old men being stupid old men. Probably a lot of horse trading going on behind the scenes. .

If Trump wins, is the great republic going to descend into something like 20C Fascism with Trump now unchained?

Could the republic break up? It's not impossible to imagine with extreme polarisation of the American electorate. A polarisation that has been amplified 10 to 100 times by "the internet". Brought down ultimately by their own creation, it's a mythic sort of narrative.

 

[Seeds]

Yes. Some great parts of Mexico and Chile that are safe, beautiful and relaxed. There’s dangerous parts of both nations but America has dangerous locations all over, and would you rather live along the Yucatan coast or rural Alabama?

Why would you compare the best part of mexico to the worst part of usa? Isnt that plain illogical?

The murder rate in the USA is under 7 per 100 thousand. In mexico its over 25 per 100 thousand.

When it comes to safety its not even close. Clearly the USA is safer to live than Mexico. So do you have another reason why you would prefer MEXICO over the USA? As your perception of safety doesnt remotely match reality.

 

[CD Xbow]

I am left speechless after watching this.

Sonya Massey: Bodycam footage shows fatal police shooting

Sonya Massey was shot at her home after police told her to put down a pot of boiling water.

www.bbc.com

 

[Blue1980]

Why would you compare the best part of mexico to the worst part of usa? Isnt that plain illogical?

The murder rate in the USA is under 7 per 100 thousand. In mexico its over 25 per 100 thousand.

When it comes to safety its not even close. Clearly the USA is safer to live than Mexico. So do you have another reason why you would prefer MEXICO over the USA? As your perception of safety doesnt remotely match reality.

Maybe it’s more accurate to say US is a lot less safe than most first world nations.

 

[Spearman]

I am left speechless after watching this.

Sonya Massey: Bodycam footage shows fatal police shooting

Sonya Massey was shot at her home after police told her to put down a pot of boiling water.

www.bbc.com

need a couple different reaction emojis
that PoS is an example of a white Christian racist, everything going ok until he gets triggered by her use of Jesus. I can't tell if she was joking or seriously damning him, but he went to deadly force faster than a jet with afterburners on.
You'd hope there'd be blanket condemnation from right-wingers of all stripes.

 

[CD Xbow]

need a couple different reaction emojis
that PoS is an example of a white Christian racist, everything going ok until he gets triggered by her use of Jesus. I can't tell if she was joking or seriously damning him, but he went to deadly force faster than a jet with afterburners on.
You'd hope there'd be blanket condemnation from right-wingers of all stripes.

Yes, you would hope so but I've not seen it. It's so horrific. Poor lost soul, she met a terrible end.

 

[Gough]

While there's just over twenty countries in the world that have never been invaded by Britain this is a pretty big call.

 

[Seeds]

While there's just over twenty countries in the world that have never been invaded by Britain this is a pretty big call.

Exactly. When britian was the dominant country on the planet it colonized 25 percent of the planet. Just like many other dominant empires (romans, ottomans, greeks, mongolians).

When the usa became the dominant country after world war 2 with the world largely in ruins and free for the taking it set up the UN and banned stealing other countries land. Rather then claim german and japanese territory as its own it helped set them up to become world powers themselves.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Exactly. When britian was the dominant country on the planet it colonized 25 percent of the planet. Just like many other dominant empires (romans, ottomans, greeks, mongolians).

When the usa became the dominant country after world war 2 with the world largely in ruins and free for the taking it set up the UN and banned stealing other countries land. Rather then claim german and japanese territory as its own it helped set them up to become world powers themselves.

The US Empire does not need to control land as it is an economic/financial one. They dominate world trade to such an extent that when Wall Street sneezes, the world catches a cold.

 

[Seeds]

The US Empire does not need to control land as it is an economic/financial one. They dominate world trade to such an extent that when Wall Street sneezes, the world catches a cold.

Usa is a net importer and its share of exports is smaller then most countries on the planet. The usa buying goods from other countries is a great thing for those other countries.

You are just posting more reasons why the usa is better then other former world powers. It hasnt stolen goods and resources from other countries through conquest. Like russia is trying to do in ukraine. Rather the usa created its own economy through technology advancement and also buys goods supporting other economies. We now all benefit from those technologies which the usa has shared with everyone by allowing global free enterprise. Whats more it has used its military to protect world trade greatly reducing piracy encouraging the set up of global supply chains. The world has flourished as a result. Particularly asia.

 

[Not Important]

a history lesson on yank imperialism. all empires eventually crash.

 

[Tadpole]

a history lesson on yank imperialism. all empires eventually crash.

And trump's going to fiddle while America burns.