J.Fraser for L.Ball will be done

[hazza21]

After reading this whole post i relise why i hate Collingwood suporters, I read before reid is light years better then everitt, cmon pul ur head out of your A*** and look at the comp from a mutual perspective

Saints dont want toovey,reid etc and nor do dogs, saints also have 0 need for Fraser and look to give mcevoy more games next year, tbh the ball deal will pobz be done but id be very suprised if it involved fraser

I hope dogs can keep everitt as he will be alright next year

 

[collingwill]

I think some Pies fans need to figure something out - the Saints don't want you getting better without them improving. Therefore, If they don't get Everitt plus pick, they would see letting Ball go to Melbourne/richmond as a better option as they would not have to face the prospect of meeting him in the finals in the next few years. Conversely, if the Pies are serious about being top 2 thenm they need to get a player like Ball who gets the footy first to complement Swan, Pendelbury, etc, and if that means giving up a promising defender you pay that price for a chance to play in the GF. Ball is in his prime - you seriously wouldn't give up Brown or Reid for him!?!

You're called id!ots because you're always expecting something for nothing. Either you're serious about winning now, or you think that you're chances are better in 3 years when (if) Brown and Reid are developed KPP's, Davis is on his way down, Lockyer and O'Bree are past it, etc. The reason Carlton traded for McLean is the same reason WCE traded for Stenglein years ago - they want to win now, and needed McLean to provide hardness and protection for the skilled mids. If the Pies want to do damage in the finals, you need players like Ball, Fev, Jolly in order to compete in finals football.

think of that when you play Geelong in the prelim next year.

 

[TomBolt]

How are the Luke Ball dealings going? Any chance of him sliding to the PSD?

Yeah, Saints won't take pick 30 from Pies, even though they may be able to use it for a player.

Ball can't & won't stay a Saint - he was on ~$600K pa & gave everything for his club (put his body on the line like few others have, Captain, etc), then Lyon cuts his pay in half. Ball says "p1ss off" & then knows he will stuggle to get a game even more so now. Along comes Lovett who will take Ball's $300K anyway (assuming Peake just a swap with Xavier) & his place in the side (Saints midfield needs Lovett's pace over another extractor like Ball). Even without Lovett, the Saints must have at least half a dozen guys with legitimate claims for a pay rise next year.

Ball knows he can go elsewhere & get $400K pa & tell Lyon, "hey, thanks for nothing". That's what he'll do in the PSD.

But there may be another option. In the PSD, couldn't he nominate a 1 yr contract at say $525K? Without saying so, makes it clear to Melb, etc, that if they draft him ahead of his preference (Pies), they will overpay for 1 yr & then lose him the next. However, there would be an unwritten understanding with the Pies that he would sign for a 2nd/3rd yrs at a reduced rate. Seems like a plan?

 

[Bay Pie]

But there may be another option. In the PSD, couldn't he nominate a 1 yr contract at say $525K? Without saying so, makes it clear to Melb, etc, that if they draft him ahead of his preference (Pies), they will overpay for 1 yr & then lose him the next. However, there would be an unwritten understanding with the Pies that he would sign for a 2nd/3rd yrs at a reduced rate. Seems like a plan?

Pretty sure that is draft tampering and huge fines and possible loss of picks would follow.

What ever price Ball puts on his head must be honoured. But in saying that next year we could extend his contract for an additional 2 years but I think the initial 1 year amount would have to be included in our salary cap.

 

[DaVe86]

lol we either offer something of value or don't waste the Saints time.

Don't offer up the crap suggestions I've heard. Pick 30, Cox, Stanley are not going to get the deal done.


Suprisingly, guys like Goldsack or Macaffer will.

Both of these guys would be a loss to the club but would get what we need most, which is an inside mid.


What's the use of having Jolly if he doesn't have a good onballer to tap it down to???


Ok so we don't have Goldsack. We'll just use TOovey, Harry, Maxwell or Reid in that role.

OK so we don't have Macaffer. We just get Medhurst to do a huge pre-season and get him injury free and we have someone for that role too. Plus JA is a mid-size forward in essence and we get Dawes to take the big man role.



I think it is very generous of the Saints to accept Goldsack. Ball was a much higher pick and is much more experienced.



To all the people saying "Don't trade Goldsack, Don't trade Fraser"...I am yet to see one person offer a decent suggestion on how to get Ball.


YOu may not be interested in Ball...but the club is. That much is obvious by the fact we are in negotations and the fact Ball has nominated us. He wouldn't leave St.Kilda for more opportunity to go to a club that is not interested in him. The discussions would've taken place.


Be reasonable.

 

[FIGJAM]

I read before reid is light years better then everitt, cmon pul ur head out of your A*** and look at the comp from a mutual perspective

I said it and I am correct.

Everitt is ordinary. Did you see your last VFL game? How was Reid compared to Everitt? How was Everitt in his finals relative to Reid who was probably our best player for the finals?

I can see things objectively. Reid is still no sure shot of making it to the AFL. But he has a far better chance than Everitt who is yet another Scott Clayton early key position draft selection that isn't especially good.

 

[fernando T]

After reading this whole post i relise why i hate Collingwood suporters, I read before reid is light years better then everitt, cmon pul ur head out of your A*** and look at the comp from a mutual perspective

Saints dont want toovey,reid etc and nor do dogs, saints also have 0 need for Fraser and look to give mcevoy more games next year, tbh the ball deal will pobz be done but id be very suprised if it involved fraser

I hope dogs can keep everitt as he will be alright next year

i reckon reid and everitt are pretty similar and at about the same stage of their careers from what i have seen. both have shown a bit at times but need to bulk up a bit and become more consistent. both will be pretty good players. dogs should definitely hold onto everitt

fraser won't be going anywhere. saints wanted goldsack and pies said no. i would think that someone like macaffer might interest the saints plus pick 30. he is showing potential as a mobile medium sized forward which is something the saints definitely lack. medhurst would be the other candidate but he is much older

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I think it is very generous of the Saints to accept Goldsack. Ball was a much higher pick and is much more experienced.

It is worth pointing out that we don't have complete information on the proposed deal. The Saints may have asked for pick #30 and Goldsack, which the club may have seen as overpaying. In the event that it was Goldsack alone, then sure, we're being a bit precious... but we don't know that to be the case.

 

[EssendonPride]

Pretty sure that is draft tampering and huge fines and possible loss of picks would follow.

What ever price Ball puts on his head must be honoured. But in saying that next year we could extend his contract for an additional 2 years but I think the initial 1 year amount would have to be included in our salary cap.

I'm not so sure. Whilst it is certainly a "grey area", I don't see any actual rules stopping it.
A player can nominate whatever price he wants, for whatever term he wants when entering the psd. That amount is automatically included in the Salary cap of the team that drafts him.

Subsequent contracts (If he put 525k @ 1yr as was suggested) can be for whatever amount the club and player agree to.

Either way it's still risky.

 

[jackcass]

lol we either offer something of value or don't waste the Saints time.

Don't offer up the crap suggestions I've heard. Pick 30, Cox, Stanley are not going to get the deal done.


Suprisingly, guys like Goldsack or Macaffer will.

Both of these guys would be a loss to the club but would get what we need most, which is an inside mid.


What's the use of having Jolly if he doesn't have a good onballer to tap it down to???


Ok so we don't have Goldsack. We'll just use TOovey, Harry, Maxwell or Reid in that role.

OK so we don't have Macaffer. We just get Medhurst to do a huge pre-season and get him injury free and we have someone for that role too. Plus JA is a mid-size forward in essence and we get Dawes to take the big man role.



I think it is very generous of the Saints to accept Goldsack. Ball was a much higher pick and is much more experienced.



To all the people saying "Don't trade Goldsack, Don't trade Fraser"...I am yet to see one person offer a decent suggestion on how to get Ball.


YOu may not be interested in Ball...but the club is. That much is obvious by the fact we are in negotations and the fact Ball has nominated us. He wouldn't leave St.Kilda for more opportunity to go to a club that is not interested in him. The discussions would've taken place.


Be reasonable.

Don't care if we get the Ball deal done or not so tell the Saints to jam reasonable where the sun don't shine!

 

[Ant85]

Agree with Dave86, we can cover Goldsack and need to stop pretending that we can get away from this trade without losing anything.

We have a good, established player from a rival top 4 side that has nominated us. Why would we assume we could get such a player without giving up something in return?

Yes, the Saints have more to lose if the deal isn't made (letting him walk for nothing), but we will also lose a chance to boost our midfield stocks. Pendles' injury killed our finals series. We lost against all the top 4 sides in nearly consecutive weeks.

Check the archives on our board, we've been complaining about boosting our midfield stocks for the past 2-3 seasons. Now we have a chance on securing a handy boost to our midfield, and we're baulking.

If we don't have this deal sown up by Fri 2pm, I'll be one annoyed Magpie.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

If we take Fraser for Ball I'm ripping up my non-existent 2010 membership.

Okay maybe not, but I'll be pretty pissed off.

 

[ace_man]

If we take Fraser for Ball I'm ripping up my non-existent 2010 membership.

Okay maybe not, but I'll be pretty pissed off.

can he be our runner he does have great aerobic capacity and i would think he could handle the weight of the bottles

 

[moose_77]

I saw Ball play a number of games this year including the one on the Gold Coast against Melb. I watched that game with a Saints supporter. We were both amazed at how many times Ball hit Dees players on the chest. I watched future matches and I think his disposal is very bad. He does however offer what all sides need and he showed that in the GF. Hard at the ball, get in and get it, attitude. Saints will miss him wherever he goes. It won't be at Melbourne as 14 other clubs won't let that happen.

 

[moose_77]

As for Fraser. He is a short Ruckman that has really suffered since the new circle in the middle was introduced. He has struggled to find a different role. This is only my opinion.

 

[ace_man]

[youtube]9Byu5KjrAWc[/youtube]

surely we need someone with this kind of attack on the football he will set a great example for the others at the club

 

[moose_77]

yep a straight swap for sure based on that footage

 

[jonesy86]

Saints demanding a young (21yrs and younger) player from the Pies for Ball. The Age says they want either N.Brown, Blight (drafted as a bottom age player last year and judging by his improvement in the vfl this year will definitely make it) or Dick who Collingwood say are all off limits.

Pies wanted to do Pick #25 (which North agreed to#30 and Wellingham for) for Ball.

 

[Invigoration]

Saints demanding a young (21yrs and younger) player from the Pies for Ball. The Age says they want either N.Brown, Blight (drafted as a bottom age player last year and judging by his improvement in the vfl this year will definitely make it) or Dick who Collingwood say are all off limits.

Enjoy Melbourne Luke

 

[OniAu]

[youtube]9Byu5KjrAWc[/youtube]

surely we need someone with this kind of attack on the football he will set a great example for the others at the club

im not the biggest fraser fan, however
u realise he was nowhere near the ball , the essendon player went the man not the ball.

hes dogged it more than anyone out of the two.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

It is worth pointing out that we don't have complete information on the proposed deal. The Saints may have asked for pick #30 and Goldsack, which the club may have seen as overpaying. In the event that it was Goldsack alone, then sure, we're being a bit precious... but we don't know that to be the case.

Reports now indicating that the Goldsack proposal was abandoned when it became apparent that the Bulldogs were taking Everitt off the table. Pick #25 for Goldsack, even if the trade was achieved, would not be enough to get Everitt to the Saints, and therefore release Ball.

So we can't really bag the club for not trading him in that case.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

As for Fraser. He is a short Ruckman that has really suffered since the new circle in the middle was introduced. He has struggled to find a different role. This is only my opinion.

202cm is not short. You're right that he struggles in the centre square because his not strong enough and lately can't jump due to his knee

 

[surfer1]

Macaffer aint a bad option either for the Saints. Plays as a lead up forward where he was our leading goal-kicker in the VFL last year. THis year he played half back all year and had strong hands and a great kick.

Then he came into the senior side and played forward in the finals where he stood up.


Pies fans...be serious. Goldsack and Macaffer are great player...but we need Ball and the Saints could do with a small fowrard or a utility defender. Have to do what we have to do.

Dave what about Cox? He has potential I would rather lose him than the ones you mentioned

 

[bergholt]

Dave what about Cox? He has potential I would rather lose him than the ones you mentioned

he'll be 24 at the start of next season and he's only played 25 games. never shown very much. the reason you'd "rather lose him" is because he's not very good.

 

[DaVe86]

Cox realistically is a similar player to Goldsack in the sense that they play a floating half back flank role.

The fact that we would rather give up Cox than Goldsack is the reason why the Saints would not accept the offer.

Cox would only be steakknives in a deal but yes, I would have no problems with trading him out. He is one player I simply do not rate.