Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

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domus said:
The eye test of the average supporter is not very reliable. You don't kick 40 plus goals in starvation corner if you are just not that good. He does have some deficiencies as do all players but a five-possession game from Jack can often result in 2 or 3 goals.
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How many of those 40 goals came from freekicks that he won't get anymore? A fair amount.
 
No doubt Jack’s working through some things this year but I think he’s up for the challenge. Hasn’t regained his natural exuberance as yet and has seemed a bit self conscious which is understandable given events and the scrutiny he’s been subject to. Just think the way the game panned out didn’t suit today whereas it suited Bobby. He’ll most likely snag a few against Dees I reckon.
 

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Kappa said:
How many of those 40 goals came from freekicks that he won't get anymore? A fair amount.
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This is partly the concern.

The other part is; how many were from lead-and-mark situations which could have been capitalised upon by any AFL standard small-to-medium forward?

If you take away the goals from frees, his scoring output doesn’t evaporate but becomes very close to “replacement level”, i.e. what you’d expect your next best player of the same role, outside the 22 to be able to do. If that replacement talent does other things better, like win one-on-ones, has pace to provide chasedowns inside 50m, tackle more effectively… then Ginni’s got a problem.

Ginni’s point of difference is that he’s smart. He uses the ball well when he does get it. But does that give him the nod over someone who gets considerably more ball, or someone who does more without the ball? That’s the crux of it.
 
Kappa said:
Not just that, but he's really poor overhead. He struggles to even draw a contest when the ball is kicked to him in an aerial contest.
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Got caught out under the ball a couple of times against taller opponents today but I just see that as a learning opportunity for him. Something Johnny Noble’s had to work around too. I’m backing him in.
 
FromTheBoundaryLine said:
Got caught out under the ball a couple of times against taller opponents today but I just see that as a learning opportunity for him. Something Johnny Noble’s had to work around too. I’m backing him in.
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I'm backing him in too. I don't know why he got that dumb free kick against him. That type of crap must be deflating. Just had an off night tonight. Missed a few goals through plain bad luck & unselfishness today imo. He loves the big stage & he'll do better next Monday.
 
FromTheBoundaryLine said:
Got caught out under the ball a couple of times against taller opponents today but I just see that as a learning opportunity for him. Something Johnny Noble’s had to work around too. I’m backing him in.
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The kicks to him too often made him prop and wait, allowing his opponent to mark over the top. Needs the footy on the ground if he's not being hit lace out on the chest.
 
ElliottsMaggies said:
I'm backing him in too. I don't know why he got that dumb free kick against him. That type of crap must be deflating. Just had an off night tonight. Missed a few goals through plain bad luck & unselfishness today imo. He loves the big stage & he'll do better next Monday.
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Yeah agree. We had two quarters where we just waltzed through West Coast and had better options inside 50 than Ginni given the match ups on the day. We also had two quarters where we got killed in clearances and our tackling effectiveness was well down and none of our forwards had much opportunity. Bit of a weird game really.
 
eyeroller said:
He is 20 years old. He was a bright spark in the AFL world last season.
He started this season off on the back foot, admittedly getting himself into trouble and then missing a chunk of footy as a consequence (fair enough).
Since then, he has struggled a bit to get his mojo back. He looks low on confidence. Confidence is something that can be regained.
I really want to see our confident lil goal kicking pest out there.

I don't understand why some people seem so happy to just kick the dog while he's down. Why don't you want our player to go well?
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You can want him to do well and also believe he doesn't have enough in his game to be a long term player.

I would dearly love to be proven wrong, I just can't see it. The only hope I do gave is Mcrae loves him, so that must mean he sees something pretty good.
 

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If McCreery misses then Ginnivan's place in the side suddenly feels more vulnerable IMO as the speed, power and ground level pressure Beau provides allows us greater scope to play a finisher like Ginnivan whose weapons are footy smarts not physical attributes. The loss of Beau and this argument could also be extended should we play 3 tall forwards. Sure the aerial presence will be strengthened but what about when the ball hits the ground?

In reality a dry fast track in Perth was unlikely to ever suit Ginnivan and he'll be back to more familiar surrounds against Melbourne if selected.
 
Chameleon75 said:
Vicky Park is going to take a flamethrower to this thread
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sr36 said:
Jen might join her. Ginni's angels.
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I think I'm out of fuel.:eek:

Not his best game and one where his weaknesses (which I choose to ignore) were perhaps a little teeny bit highlighted.

But - coming off a very good game last week.

And another but - he is still young and maturing, and we have the best coach in the league to nurture him along and get him to where his outstanding football smarts are best utilised by this team, playing this style of game.

:)
 
swoop42 said:
If McCreery misses then Ginnivan's place in the side suddenly feels more vulnerable IMO as the speed, power and ground level pressure Beau provides allows us greater scope to play a finisher like Ginnivan whose weapons are footy smarts not physical attributes.
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Ginni does really clever things, but he looks lost when not inside 50. I think we overestimate his footy IQ. He's got a fair way to go in terms of game sense.
 
sr36 said:
Ginni does really clever things, but he looks lost when not inside 50. I think we overestimate his footy IQ. He's got a fair way to go in terms of game sense.
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Speaking for yourself...:p

His natural habitat is in the forward 50, and as close to the goals as possible.
 
Vicky Park said:
Speaking for yourself...:p

His natural habitat is in the forward 50, and as close to the goals as possible.
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Yeah it is.

But he's spoken of in here as having incredible footy IQ, whereas it's becoming clear that what he does is think as quickly as the best, and is thus really clever within that one role, but he's still learning the game outside of that one role - which is to be expected considering his inexperience.
 
stormskye said:
Our small forward brigade are a rookie, pick 44 and a second rounder. And they are up there with the best. Obviously
Not Greene, rankine or papley level. But what bargain pick ups they’ve been, and all still have lots of development in them
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Mihocek is a gigantic gold nugget we found on the tip.
I flipping seriously love the bloke.

Has any player ever made more of his talents through pure hard work and courage....ever?
 
danielnajdek said:
Lacks pace. Said it multiple times. It’s my biggest worry with him.
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The Ginnipig won't do well on a wing.
His spot is inside the 50 at the feet of the tall forwards, hence, will flourish when McStay returns.
 

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Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

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