Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[Pragmatic Shill]

Maybe just refrain from your little digs at Jen? They don't add anything and make you look unclassy. Be classy Shill.

I'm querying why Ginnivan gets a pass for being apparently fatigued at R13 despite only playing 8 games. It's perfectly reasonable to ask that and has nothing to do with a classy/unclassy dichotomy.

 

[Scodog10]

Let it go.

Her post has nothing to do with AJ.

She’s allowed to defend Ginnivan and say her bit. She’s around those that know, more than we are.

We’re all allowed our bit and being around those that know more doesn’t make someone an authority on an issue.

Setting this discussion aside the excuses for Jack’s struggles wear thin on me as someone who just wants to talk footy. Right now he’s treading the Stephenson/ Anthony flash in the pan path, but remains a favourite on here which makes real discussion on where he’s at a slog.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

More than willing to put my hand up and admit that in the past I have been rude to Jen in how I interact with her, which I have apologised for.

But in this case, calling her out on what I perceive to be an inconsistency in views and disagreement with how she assess the Ginnivan situation is not "having a dig" at her, it's a normal to-ing and fro-ing of conversations on a forum in which people express their views.

If we can put aside the feeling that people should be gatekeeping what I can say, I think it's a fair and reasonable discussion to have.

 

[VinnieB]

I think Bobby Hill is the type of player we need forward. He brings speed and skill and can make things happen out of nothing. He may not be the 15 possession 2 goal a game player yet, but he has the skill set we lack up forward.

I also think Ginnivan’s smarts is something we need. The kid did kick 40 goals as a 19 yr old last season. I can’t see why he won’t get back to that level.

 

[Kirby]

And I'm allowed to make remarks that are critical of Ginnivan's performance when someone has raised that he might have been dropped due to misbehavior. Good grief, it's an open forum. It's a difference of opinion, which is what occurs on a message board. Enough of the pearl clutching.

Am I just simply not allowed to express a contrary opinion?

Come on mate, own up.

You were having a crack at Jen and being petty about the AJ thing that you just won’t let go.

 

[Kirby]

We’re all allowed our bit and being around those that know more doesn’t make someone an authority on an issue.

Setting this discussion aside the excuses for Jack’s struggles wear thin on me as someone who just wants to talk footy. Right now he’s treading the Stephenson/ Anthony flash in the pan path, but remains a favourite on here which makes real discussion on where he’s at a slog.

Who said she was an authority?

I’m saying she’s entitled to her opinion without an irrelevant straw man “what about” thing being thrown up against her.

Simple concept.

 

[windchimes]

More than willing to put my hand up and admit that in the past I have been rude to Jen in how I interact with her, which I have apologised for.

But in this case, calling her out on what I perceive to be an inconsistency in views and disagreement with how she assess the Ginnivan situation is not "having a dig" at her, it's a normal to-ing and fro-ing of conversations on a forum in which people express their views.

If we can put aside the feeling that people should be gatekeeping what I can say, I think it's a fair and reasonable discussion to have.

No one was gatekeeping your opinions, jeepers, be sensible.

Just take it easy on the digs on Jen. Every time Ginnivan comes up and she defends him you do the same thing. Move on

 

[Kappa]

I think Bobby Hill is the type of player we need forward. He brings speed and skill and can make things happen out of nothing. He may not be the 15 possession 2 goal a game player yet, but he has the skill set we lack up forward.

I also think Ginnivan’s smarts is something we need. The kid did kick 40 goals as a 19 yr old last season. I can’t see why he won’t get back to that level.

You can’t see that a huge amount of those 40 goals were from frees that he doesn’t get anymore?

 

[sr36]

Setting this discussion aside the excuses for Jack’s struggles wear thin on me as someone who just wants to talk footy. Right now he’s treading the Stephenson/ Anthony flash in the pan path, but remains a favourite on here which makes real discussion on where he’s at a slog.

Jack's basically very good but very slow, particularly by position. I don't think there's been a decline. I think he's been borderline ever since they changed the high contact interpretation. Not sure if he would have held his place for finals last year if we had've had Bobby Hill.

Also with teams setting up deeper and restricting our line breaking run, he's not getting the out the back goals that he got from reading it so quickly.

He's in the wrong era. Would have been a superstar in the 80s and 90s, when forwards didn't run two ways. But as it is, he needs to add to his game to hold his place in a top team.

But he'll always divide opinion, due to his personality and because his strengths and weaknesses are both pretty high.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

You can’t see that a huge amount of those 40 goals were from frees that he doesn’t get anymore?

He got 10 goals as a result of frees. And let's face it, many of those were more than justified. There were many, many more which were not paid, particularly in the second half of the year.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

No one was gatekeeping your opinions, jeepers, be sensible.

Just take it easy on the digs on Jen. Every time Ginnivan comes up and she defends him you do the same thing. Move on

Thanks for the feedback, I'll take it on board.

 

[Pragmatic Shill]

He got 10 goals as a result of frees. And let's face it, many of those were more than justified. There were many, many more which were not paid, particularly in the second half of the year.

Why does it say I wrote that comment?

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Why does it say I wrote that comment?

Lol, I was going to ask you the same thing. Or Kappa if he responded.

 

[pablo disco bar]

God I hope he never plays for another club...can't lie I'll dispise him..

 

[VinnieB]

You can’t see that a huge amount of those 40 goals were from frees that he doesn’t get anymore?

That's not totally correct. The umpires clamped down on that during the 2022 season. Even if you look from round 20, he kicked 11 goals including 3 goals against Carlton in a high-pressure game in round 23, and 3 goals in a semi-final against Freo. He isn't totally hopeless and obviously also has had to battle poor decisions against him.

Kicked 5 goals Anzac Day last year and received 1 free.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

That's not totally correct. The umpires clamped down on that during the 2022 season. Even if you look from round 20, he kicked 11 goals including 3 goals against Carlton in a high-pressure game in round 23, and 3 goals in a semi-final against Freo. He isn't totally hopeless and obviously also has had to battle poor decisions against him.

Exactly. It was 10 goals from frees. Majority of which were more than justified. And as we know, he didn't receive frees for many more when he was almost decapitated.

 

[Pistol Night]

Exactly. It was 10 goals from frees. Majority of which were more than justified. And as we know, he didn't receive frees for many more when he was almost decapitated.

Mason Redman tackled him with as much anger as a security guard tackling a streaker. When Leigh Mathews says something makes him uncomfortable you know it’s not good

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Mason Redman tackled him with as much anger as a security guard tackling a streaker. When Leigh Mathews says something makes him uncomfortable you know it’s not good

Haven't wanted to jump the fence more in my life, than at that moment

 

[JuniorB]

More leg speed wouldn’t say more tools over all. But admittedly leg speed is a big weapon to have over someone.

HH seems to have innate front and centre crumbing ability and strong physical attributes.
It's too early to assess his overall footy smarts, but he shows promise.
Ginni we know has footy smarts in spades.

 

[Scodog10]

Who said she was an authority?

I’m saying she’s entitled to her opinion without an irrelevant straw man “what about” thing being thrown up against her.

Simple concept.

You don’t feel that suggesting she’s around people that know more than we are implies she’s somewhat of an authority compared to others? Usually love your work Kirby, but this is a bit much and leaving it at everyone being entitled to their bit rather than this “straw man” stuff is more in line with how I’ve perceived your style. Only my take though because I’m really not as invested as you seem to be

 

[Scodog10]

Jack's basically very good but very slow, particularly by position. I don't think there's been a decline. I think he's been borderline ever since they changed the high contact interpretation. Not sure if he would have held his place for finals last year if we had've had Bobby Hill.

Also with teams setting up deeper and restricting our line breaking run, he's not getting the out the back goals that he got from reading it so quickly.

He's in the wrong era. Would have been a superstar in the 80s and 90s, when forwards didn't run two ways. But as it is, he needs to add to his game to hold his place in a top team.

But he'll always divide opinion, due to his personality and because his strengths and weaknesses are both pretty high.

I do agree with the lack of pace and the disadvantages that come of it, but I’d strongly suggest there’s been a decline if he’s fatigued after the start to the year he’s had.

There’s obviously a couple of schools of thought on that be it yours or the more devoted take of Sidey, but for me he had a rubbish pre-season capped off by his lunacy in that public toilet. That rubbish pre-season has culminated in a decline in output. There’s of course plenty of nuance that then goes into what makes up that reduced output and decline, but 2023 footy doesn’t allow for 20yo’s to have the pre-season he had and not go backwards, IMO. Do you believe he’ll be at Collingwood post this contract given how we play?

I’m not so sure about the 80’s because he’d have had his head taken off pretty swiftly with his behaviour, but yeah I could see him having a very good career in that late amateur era.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

We’re all allowed our bit and being around those that know more doesn’t make someone an authority on an issue.

Setting this discussion aside the excuses for Jack’s struggles wear thin on me as someone who just wants to talk footy. Right now he’s treading the Stephenson/ Anthony flash in the pan path, but remains a favourite on here which makes real discussion on where he’s at a slog.

Absolutely 100% this. So many people on here take it like a personal attack when someone has an opinion on Jack.

 

[sr36]

I do agree with the lack of pace and the disadvantages that come of it, but I’d strongly suggest there’s been a decline if he’s fatigued after the start to the year he’s had.

There’s obviously a couple of schools of thought on that be it yours or the more devoted take of Sidey, but for me he had a rubbish pre-season capped off by his lunacy in that public toilet. That rubbish pre-season has culminated in a decline in output. There’s of course plenty of nuance that then goes into what makes up that reduced output and decline, but 2023 footy doesn’t allow for 20yo’s to have the pre-season he had and not go backwards, IMO. Do you believe he’ll be at Collingwood post this contract given how we play?

I’m not so sure about the 80’s because he’d have had his head taken off pretty swiftly with his behaviour, but yeah I could see him having a very good career in that late amateur era.

Did he have a rubbish preseason? I don't think he missed any of it and a couple of extra weeks of preseason shouldn't have hurt. A re-jig to our forward line and he's playing a bit higher up the ground and isn't as good at it.

I doubt he was rested due to fatigue after a 9 day break when we had some others sore and sick.

 

[Scodog10]

Did he have a rubbish preseason? I don't think he missed any of it and a couple of extra weeks of preseason shouldn't have hurt. A re-jig to our forward line and he's playing a bit higher up the ground and isn't as good at it

Yeah he was interrupted late in 2022 and then with the suspension he had no lead in to the season. Definitely agree with the re-jig and the impacts its had.

 

[TheFreshBinnivan]

Go ginni