Oppo Camp Jack Ginnivan (Traded to Hawks 2023)

[jonbe54]

Imagine if Cox were allowed to push in the back at every single contest like Tom Hawkins?
50 goal a year better prospect.

Agreed umpiring rarely determines the outcome of games and seasons as it usually evens out or nearly but it certainly can make or break a player.

Cox showed the AFL something that scared them in that prelim against the Tigers and he has been umpired differently ever since.

 

[jonbe54]

I found his 2021 highlights video:


He's not only an accurate kick but a penetrating one too.

All great and as a sidelight that tackle by McCreery in the final goal sequence was high quality too.

 

[Quicky]

I think he's a ripper with a very high ceiling. Exceptional awareness and very good ball skills. Get his body right and I think he'll be playing midfield in a few years.

It'd be awesome if he has midfield scope. He'd need to fill out a lot. I think one of the things I struggle with in assessing Ginnivan is that because he finds space so effortlessly you don't see his athletic traits. That isn't a bad thing I just reckon it makes him harder to judge. It's like he's already tricked his opponent so he doesn't need to burn them off or bully his way through to get the ball.

 

[Quicky]

All great and as a sidelight that tackle by McCreery in the final goal sequence was high quality too.

McCreery is already one of my favourites. A great pick up last year. His defensive pressure is off the charts. I reckon McRae is gonna love him.

 

[sr36]

Imagine if Cox were allowed to push in the back at every single contest like Tom Hawkins?
50 goal a year better prospect.

I'm more of the opinion - imagine if Cox was ever coached to add playing from behind to his repertoire. He just went for front position every single time and wasn't strong enough to hold the position.

 

[sr36]

It'd be awesome if he has midfield scope. He'd need to fill out a lot. I think one of the things I struggle with in assessing Ginnivan is that because he finds space so effortlessly you don't see his athletic traits. That isn't a bad thing I just reckon it makes him harder to judge. It's like he's already tricked his opponent so he doesn't need to burn them off or bully his way through to get the ball.

I get the impression that athleticism is a weakness and he'll have to work hard on his body. But he still looks like a boy with a bit of puppy fat, so he may end up an average AFL athlete for his size- rather than below average.

 

[jonbe54]

It'd be awesome if he has midfield scope. He'd need to fill out a lot. I think one of the things I struggle with in assessing Ginnivan is that because he finds space so effortlessly you don't see his athletic traits. That isn't a bad thing I just reckon it makes him harder to judge. It's like he's already tricked his opponent so he doesn't need to burn them off or bully his way through to get the ball.

Daic's Snr always was a move ahead of his opponents - not comparing them of course - but it's very hard to quantify and there will never be a stat for it.

 

[Robroy22]

I'd love it if Jack's legs worked as fast as his brain because if he's going to be a "small forward" in our set up then pace and agility must be outstanding. For mine, he wants to play as a bit more of a "cleverer" version of Jamie Elliot with lots of his goals coming from chest marks taken on the lead (or from frees from being tackled incorrectly) whereas we really need a "scrapper" of a smaller forward that crumbs and tackles and hassles defenders into error. His "awareness" is high but whether he has the physical capabilities (namely speed and endurance) to make it into a midfield....I'd think it unlikely. He's an upgrade on Callum Brown as a small forward (because he actually DOES have forward instincts)....but can he take his physical abilities to another level, endurance sure....speed kills!

 

[manicpie]

I'd love it if Jack's legs worked as fast as his brain because if he's going to be a "small forward" in our set up then pace and agility must be outstanding. For mine, he wants to play as a bit more of a "cleverer" version of Jamie Elliot with lots of his goals coming from chest marks taken on the lead (or from frees from being tackled incorrectly) whereas we really need a "scrapper" of a smaller forward that crumbs and tackles and hassles defenders into error. His "awareness" is high but whether he has the physical capabilities (namely speed and endurance) to make it into a midfield....I'd think it unlikely. He's an upgrade on Callum Brown as a small forward (because he actually DOES have forward instincts)....but can he take his physical abilities to another level, endurance sure....speed kills!

Why don't we give him a couple of years to establish himself. you are making an assumption of a hand full of games. he could explode and become the next inside mid king or he may not but I'm not going to make an assumption based on no knowledge

 

[Quicky]

I'd love it if Jack's legs worked as fast as his brain because if he's going to be a "small forward" in our set up then pace and agility must be outstanding. For mine, he wants to play as a bit more of a "cleverer" version of Jamie Elliot with lots of his goals coming from chest marks taken on the lead (or from frees from being tackled incorrectly) whereas we really need a "scrapper" of a smaller forward that crumbs and tackles and hassles defenders into error. His "awareness" is high but whether he has the physical capabilities (namely speed and endurance) to make it into a midfield....I'd think it unlikely. He's an upgrade on Callum Brown as a small forward (because he actually DOES have forward instincts)....but can he take his physical abilities to another level, endurance sure....speed kills!

When McRae got the coaching gig he said he expected more tackles from our first year draftees. I imagine that will be an area of focus for Ginnivan this off season. It'll be a harder task to execute in the absence of leg speed and a mature body. He might need to apply some of that footy IQ to defensive positioning too. I'm also hoping Jarrod Wade can get the boys beefed up a bit. He started off as a weights trainer.

 

[Quicky]

Why don't we give him a couple of years to establish himself. you are making an assumption of a hand full of games. he could explode and become the next inside mid king or he may not but I'm not going to make an assumption based on no knowledge

I thought Rob was being very reasonable in his assessment.

 

[Robroy22]

Why don't we give him a couple of years to establish himself. you are making an assumption of a hand full of games. he could explode and become the next inside mid king or he may not but I'm not going to make an assumption based on no knowledge

Sure mate, I'm happy to see how it goes with the young kids...but just as an aside, can you tell me the last "kid" drafted as a small forward (having played forward of centre most of his life) transformed themselves into a top class AFL mid (let alone an "inside mid king").....? Most elite mids come into the role early and play it all their lives. I'd love Jack to play 100+ games as a forward....let alone as a mid!

 

[manicpie]

Sure mate, I'm happy to see how it goes with the young kids...but just as an aside, can you tell me the last "kid" drafted as a small forward (having played forward of centre most of his life) transformed themselves into a top class AFL mid (let alone an "inside mid king").....? Most elite mids come into the role early and play it all their lives. I'd love Jack to play 100+ games as a forward....let alone as a mid!

He might never be a mid but to say he won't based on the little you have seen him play is more my point. He is a forward and a really good one at that

 

[manicpie]

I thought Rob was being very reasonable in his assessment.

Me too, but my point was more around making calls of any sort on a player who he hasn't really seen play much football. Before covid, ginnivin was about to be played midfield because they thought that he will become quite good at it, that's more my point

 

[Robroy22]

He might never be a mid but to say he won't based on the little you have seen him play is more my point. He is a forward and a really good one at that

I respect your opinion.

 

[well left]

It'd be awesome if he has midfield scope. He'd need to fill out a lot. I think one of the things I struggle with in assessing Ginnivan is that because he finds space so effortlessly you don't see his athletic traits. That isn't a bad thing I just reckon it makes him harder to judge. It's like he's already tricked his opponent so he doesn't need to burn them off or bully his way through to get the ball.

I might be alone in this assessment and I’m not suggesting he’ll get to this level but I get some Robbie Gray vibes from him.

I suspect in time he may be able to get into midfield rotations and pinch hit but likely to play forward of centre but will deliver when it matters and will always want the ball in his hands.


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[The Royal Sampler]

I think his ceiling is like a poor man’s Blake Caracella

Blake Caracella

Age

47

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.5

4star

K

10.1

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

8.8

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

0.6

3star

. He finds space well, has good skills, reads the game brilliantly and has a high hurt factor. However he’s not exceptional athletically, probably not strong enough to play midfield and will be restricted to small forward or half forward.

Where Caracella could play wing, I think Ginnivan’s map would be situated closer to goals and he’ll probably have a higher-scoring but lesser possession-total outlook than Caracella.

 

[TradeDraft]

I think his ceiling is like a poor man’s Blake Caracella. He finds space well, has good skills, reads the game brilliantly and has a high hurt factor. However he’s not exceptional athletically, probably not strong enough to play midfield and will be restricted to small forward or half forward.

Where Caracella could play wing, I think Ginnivan’s map would be situated closer to goals and he’ll probably have a higher-scoring but lesser possession-total outlook than Caracella.

You always need players who know how to Kick a goal

 

[partypie]

Imagine if Cox were allowed to push in the back at every single contest like Tom Hawkins?
50 goal a year better prospect.

I'd be happy with them just blowing the whistle on even 50% of the really obvious arm chops and head spoils he receives every game. Those times when you can literally see the fist of the defender "spoiling" from behind is at least a foot away from touching the ball in real time.

Would be easily another 3-4 shots on goal per game minimum for Mason, if not more.

Back on topic - I've seen a few of the comments re: Ginnivan likely not making the transition to midfield, but I'd take a career small forward who is good for 30+ goals year in, year out if that's the direction he is headed in. It looks to me like he has enough tricks in the bag to be that player, as long as we don't coach the flair out of him by trying to turn him into a totally defensively-minded tackle pressure-only small forward robot.

 

[Jen2310]

Given his junior career, I think he would have no problem being a small forward for his career. Loves kicking goals.

 

[Jen2310]

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jonbe54]

I'd be happy with them just blowing the whistle on even 50% of the really obvious arm chops and head spoils he receives every game. Those times when you can literally see the fist of the defender "spoiling" from behind is at least a foot away from touching the ball in real time.

Would be easily another 3-4 shots on goal per game minimum for Mason, if not more.

Back on topic - I've seen a few of the comments re: Ginnivan likely not making the transition to midfield, but I'd take a career small forward who is good for 30+ goals year in, year out if that's the direction he is headed in. It looks to me like he has enough tricks in the bag to be that player, as long as we don't coach the flair out of him by trying to turn him into a totally defensively-minded tackle pressure-only small forward robot.

Another topic that people on this board are FAR too obsessed with - turning forwards / backmen into mids.

Ginni represents something we have been screaming out for for years - a dangerous goalkicking small forward - yet still plenty here want to run him down because they don't think he can make a mid.

Newsflash!!!!!!!

He was recruited as a goal kicking small forward . . . rollseyes.gif

 

[domus]

Why don't we give him a couple of years to establish himself. you are making an assumption of a hand full of games. he could explode and become the next inside mid king or he may not but I'm not going to make an assumption based on no knowledge

No knowledge? We've been able to watch him at both VFL and AFL level this year. Can you tell me why players get delisted without ever playing a game at senior level? Using your logic you should never delist a player without giving him a year or two at senior level to see whether he will develop and grow into a senior player.

 

[sr36]

Another topic that people on this board are FAR too obsessed with - turning forwards / backmen into mids.

Ginni represents something we have been screaming out for for years - a dangerous goalkicking small forward - yet still plenty here want to run him down because they don't think he can make a mid.

Newsflash!!!!!!!

He was recruited as a goal kicking small forward . . . rollseyes.gif

I just think various attributes are more suited to one role than the other. To me, in the long term, Ginnivan's awesome awareness of what those around him are doing and middling to low pace, make him more suited to the midfield than small forward. But he'll need to play small forward for a couple of years, until he's developed a body suited to the midfield, if he can ever develop that body.

 

[jonbe54]

I just think various attributes are more suited to one role than the other. To me, in the long term, Ginnivan's awesome awareness of what those around him are doing and middling to low pace, make him more suited to the midfield than small forward. But he'll need to play small forward for a couple of years, until he's developed a body suited to the midfield, if he can ever develop that body.

His build looks like mine - lean and a hyperactive metabolism. If so he's going to have to work pretty hard to put on meaningful weight and will have to work almost as hard to maintain it.

I guess it's a matter of maximizing his attributes and building up to his capacity. As you say will take a couple of years.