Jack will come back & bite us

[Cap]

a player who makes lasts longer than 6 years.

In fact I can't think of many players who became regular 22 who didn't end up better than they were at end of yr 3.

Can you?

Gunston for one was much better in year 4 than 3, and looks to still be improving

Plenty. Don't confuse playing a different role to getting better either.

David Makay is a great candidate, Brent Reilly another. Heath Scotland a prime example of a person who just platued but was able to create a career at the level he got to.

Plenty of crows to pick from.

To make it easier for you. You can pretty much look at any "under rated" player.You know the honest trier who never really gets the awards of his more talented peers.

 

[Sanders]

Plenty. Don't confuse playing a different role to getting better either.

David Makay is a great candidate, Brent Reilly another. Heath Scotland a prime example of a person who just platued but was able to create a career at the level he got to.

Plenty of crows to pick from.

To make it easier for you. You can pretty much look at any "under rated" player.You know the honest trier who never really gets the awards of his more talented peers.

Heath Scotland? Surely you jest, he's exactly the opposite

Reilly had a career year in 2012

Who are these plenty? Hmm

 

[Cap]

Heath Scotland? Surely you jest, he's exactly the opposite

Reilly had a career year in 2012

Who are these plenty? Hmm

Poor old Sanders. You really can't engage in much once your initial bully boy tactics wear out.

Stick to supercoach mate.

 

[Sanders]

Poor old Sanders. You really can't engage in much once your initial bully boy tactics wear out.

Stick to supercoach mate.

I'm sorry is this your way of saying you were wrong?

By quoting famous late developers such as Heath Scotland and Brent Reilly as examples of early bloomers?

Must be a double bluff.

 

[Cap]

I'm sorry is this your way of saying you were wrong?

By quoting famous late developers such as Heath Scotland and Brent Reilly as examples of early bloomers?

Must be a double bluff.

Famous late bloomers. Lol.

 

[Sanders]

Famous late bloomers. Lol.

feel free to rebutt.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yawn

What was the topic again...

 

[Cap]

feel free to rebutt.

rebutt what? You haven't provided anything, I'm going to leave you to captain the good ship catchphrase to the new world of NFI.

 

[BrissyCrow]

I don't think you can. Didnt Brisbane player say the same thing about Polec?

It seems stupid that you have a draft but then the ability of a player to go where they want after 2 years.

I agree. In fact I have said previously that I believe any player using the "go home" justification should have to stand out of football for 12 months. Then he should be able to go back to his "home" state and let the clubs in that state negotiate for his services. If the player has served out 5-6 years (whatever) and wants to go home then he has at least contributed to that club in some way.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I agree. In fact I have said previously that I believe any player using the "go home" justification should have to stand out of football for 12 months. Then he should be able to go back to his "home" state and let the clubs in that state negotiate for his services. If the player has served out 5-6 years (whatever) and wants to go home then he has at least contributed to that club in some way.

Or, instead of implementing another socialist regime, you could just take some responsibility as a club and get better so players don't want to leave you.

Taking responsibility and getting better. An earth shattering thought, evidently.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Or, instead of implementing another socialist regime, you could just take some responsibility as a club and get better so players don't want to leave you.

Taking responsibility and getting better. An earth shattering thought, evidently.

I agree. Create the environment to keep players at your club. However to some degree that is very idealistic and whilst it would be nice I still believe there should be some disincentive to try and use the "go home" factor.

 

[BrissyCrow]

Or, instead of implementing another socialist regime, you could just take some responsibility as a club and get better so players don't want to leave you.

Taking responsibility and getting better. An earth shattering thought, evidently.

I agree. Create the environment to keep players at your club. However to some degree that is very idealistic and whilst it would be nice I still believe there should be some disincentive to try and use the "go home" factor.

 

[Sanders]

rebutt what? You haven't provided anything, I'm going to leave you to captain the good ship catchphrase to the new world of NFI.

Rebutt what?

Lets see you came up with a crazy idea that most players don't improve after 3 years in the system to justify your views on Gunston

When called out on this, you went into some peculiar gibberish that eventually ended with you with pointing to Heath Scotland and Brent Reilly as examples of your theory.

That both are examples of classic late bloomers made them surprising examples for you to point to.

You then ridiculed the idea that both were late bloomers to deflect.

Heath Scotland spent his 3rd season in the reserves for collingwood, not establishing himself as a permanent best 22 player until his 6th season when traded to Carlton at the end of 2003

He would win his first B&F in 2012

Brent Reilly was also not even a first 22 player in his 3rd year.

He had far and away his best ever season in 2012 having been drafted in 2001

Do you have any others examples or evidence of your theory?

Isn't it more true that you were just trying to find a reason to justify hating on Jack? One that you decided to dig in on rather than let it go?

 

[Cap]

Rebutt what?



Lets see you came up with a crazy idea that most players don't improve after 3 years in the system to justify your views on Gunston



When called out on this, you went into some peculiar gibberish that eventually ended with you with pointing to Heath Scotland and Brent Reilly as examples of your theory.



That both are examples of classic late bloomers made them surprising examples for you to point to.



You then ridiculed the idea that both were late bloomers to deflect.



Heath Scotland spent his 3rd season in the reserves for collingwood, not establishing himself as a permanent best 22 player until his 6th season when traded to Carlton at the end of 2003



He would win his first B&F in 2012



Brent Reilly was also not even a first 22 player in his 3rd year.



He had far and away his best ever season in 2012 having been drafted in 2001



Do you have any others examples or evidence of your theory?



Isn't it more true that you were just trying to find a reason to justify hating on Jack? One that you decided to dig in on rather than let it go?

What a load of shit.

I'd say the vast majority of footballers don't get much better than what they were in their first 3 or so years.

I made a my opinion clear that I thought even backing it up with stats from the AFLPA

Id say it isn't tiny, given the average careee (sic) for AFL players is about 6 years ( or was but a few years ago)

Now you are the one what wanted to talk about “a player who makes it”

To which I said,

Don't confuse playing a different role to getting better either.

David Makay is a great candidate, Brent Reilly another. Heath Scotland a prime example of a person who just platued but was able to create a career at the level he got to.

I guess it was easy to overlook Mackay because that doesn’t support your position

Hell I even said

That isn't saying they are not good players or don't have the odd good year/game just they don't get any better.

Heath Scotland conveniently got better in your eyes when traded to what was the worst team of the year and possibly one of the worst in the last decade (yes including GWS).

As I pointed out, these blokes are able to carve out careers, and Heath Scotland is a perfect example of a guy who focussed on his strengths to carve out a career and was fortunate enough to be in the worst team when doing that.

As you yourself pointed out, after 6 years he was delisted and rightly so, he was just ever so fortunate to be delisted when Cartlon were picking up any old player to fill the gaps.

And Reilly, the failed midfielder who was allowed to play loose man in defence, again he didn’t get any better he was simply put in a different position than the one he was recruited for, because, he didn’t develop. Hell even this board was questioning his value not 12 months following that 1 good season because he wasn't backing it up due to scrutiny from opposition teams.

So Sanders, I’m not bothering discussing this with anymore because, quite simply, you aren’t up to it.

 

[Sanders]

I made a my opinion clear that I thought even backing it up with stats from the AFLPA

Yeah nah. AFLPA stat saying average career is 6 years supports your view?

I don't see that interpretation makes sense

I guess it was easy to overlook Mackay because that doesn’t support your position

Even if we agreed on a player with only one good year in his career, that wouldn't exactly make it most players now would it?

That's a player who has gone backwards. I'm sure you'd agree that's not a typical player progression

Heath Scotland conveniently got better in your eyes when traded to what was the worst team of the year and possibly one of the worst in the last decade (yes including GWS).

Ha ha

C'mon admit it, you were thinking of someone else. We've all done it.

Scotland became one of the leagues very best running backmen in the 2nd half of his career.

He made the AA squad in 2011 and a B&F in 2012

As you yourself pointed out, after 6 years he was delisted and rightly so, he was just ever so fortunate to be delisted when Cartlon were picking up any old player to fill the gaps.

Delisted? WTF

He wasn't delisted - why on earth would you say that?

He was the centrepiece in the trade offer Collingwood made to Port Adelaide for Nick Stevens, and having burnt their bridges when Port rejected it the Pies traded him to Carlton.

This was a very famous trade/non trade with him & Stevens

Are you sure it was a good idea to reference your great knowledge and insight on a player you seem to know nothing about?

And Reilly, the failed midfielder who was allowed to play loose man in defence, again he didn’t get any better he was simply put in a different position than the one he was recruited for, because, he didn’t develop. Hell even this board was questioning his value not 12 months following that 1 good season because he wasn't backing it up due to scrutiny from opposition teams.

But he wasn't even a first 22 player after 3 years. He was AA squad in 2012.

You might not call that improvement but you'd be in a minority.

So Sanders, I’m not bothering discussing this with anymore because, quite simply, you aren’t up to it.

Its true.

 

[Cap]

Sanders, honestly do you just avoid discussion the point and selectively quote to make discussion about other things?

Did I or did I not say, players who don't development after 3 years or so, can have good careers and capable of having good years? I'm not sure what is so difficult for you to understand?

I also never said thatthere isn't late bloomers or players that do develop after 3 years, I just contradicted your view that every player does or the vast majority - remebering you threw in after my intial comments "players who made it".

Your opinion of Scotland and Rielly is duly noted and your love of AA squads . However I still suay that there are many players who don't develop after 3 years or so who are capable of making an AFL career - obviously these players are subjective, clearly.

In regards to Scotland I guess being the centerpiece of a trade that was rejected by the club as insulting is another tick of approval for you. I must admit I thought he was delisted, but I guess traded for pick 35 to a club desperate for players should have made me very aware of his talent.

ultimately however, you haven't supported a shred of evidence to support your position, whilst trying to focus on side issues of mine (we have a subjective difference to the players commented on), oh wait actually you never have had a point.

 

[Godallblighty]

You know, this would be an interesting debate if you two lightened up on the mutual scorn.

 

[Allefgib]

Agreed blighty. Tidy it up please chaps.

Again it seems a debate around semantics...

 

[cmndstab]

You know, this would be an interesting debate if you two lightened up on the mutual scorn.

Was about to say the same. I can't take any argument seriously when the people involved end every paragraph with an insult directed at the person they're arguing with. It just seems like such a primary school slapfest.