Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[L_W_P]

Everyone asking why Essedon would over pay for Gresham. The answer is simple - St Kilda are planning to match anything that falls short of band 1 compensation.

If that happens then Essendon would have to trade for Gresham and this impacts their draft hand. vs getting Grtesham at no cost.

St Kilda are offering a token trade for Dylan Shiel

9

Dylan Shiel

Age

31

Ht

182cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.6

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

12.2

5star

M

3.1

3star

T

3.9

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

13.6

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

3.4

4star

CL

6.4

5star

D

19.8

5star

K

8.4

4star

HB

11.4

5star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

3.8

5star

so that Essendon have the extra space to bump up Gresham's contract. Yes, Im aware they have heaps in the cap but the Saints are going to push for Gresham to get up to 300k more than Essendon planned.

If Essendon do the deal they essentially trade Shiel for Gresham + a late pick. Win for Essendon.
If St Kilda do the deal then they swap Gresham + late pick for Shiel + pick 13. Win for St Kilda.
If the deal isn't done then St Kilda plan on keeping Gresham on the reduced salary set by Essendon.

Whether the AFL allow all this is another matter. Adelaide would rightly question it all given a similar deal was proposed for Crouch coming to the Saints. The AFL then handicapped themselves by allowing the Suns to offload Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

26

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

' contract last year.

I expect the AFL to allow it though, in order to open up more player movements through 'salary dumping'.

 

[bird_man]

Strawman.

The point I made was that paying Gresham a band 1 contract only helps St Kilda and is of no use to us if you aren't going to keep him anyway.
There is even less reason to dump Shiel for shoddy return in a salary dump as we are in the best cap space situation in the league.

We arent going to do both those things for the Saints benefit when they dont advantage us.

Time will tell brother fox.

I will happily put my balls on the line and say there is zero chance Essendon end up with Gresham and 13.

 

[eth-dog]

Everyone asking why Essedon would over pay for Gresham. The answer is simple - St Kilda are planning to match anything that falls short of band 1 compensation.

If that happens then Essendon would have to trade for Gresham and this impacts their draft hand. vs getting Grtesham at no cost.

St Kilda are offering a token trade for Dylan Shiel so that Essendon have the extra space to bump up Gresham's contract. Yes, Im aware they have heaps in the cap but the Saints are going to push for Gresham to get up to 300k more than Essendon planned.

If Essendon do the deal they essentially trade Shiel for Gresham + a late pick. Win for Essendon.
If St Kilda do the deal then they swap Gresham + late pick for Shiel + pick 13. Win for St Kilda.
If the deal isn't done then St Kilda plan on keeping Gresham on the reduced salary set by Essendon.

Whether the AFL allow all this is another matter. Adelaide would rightly question it all given a similar deal was proposed for Crouch coming to the Saints. The AFL then handicapped themselves by allowing the Suns to offload Jack Bowes' contract last year.

I expect the AFL to allow it though, in order to open up more player movements through 'salary dumping'.

Nope. Doesn't benefit us. It benefits St Kilda greatly, but doesn't benefit us.

 

[bird_man]

He strikes me as a selfish footballer

He is.

Although hy the end of the year seemed to have changed his tune a lot.

 

[L_W_P]

Nope. Doesn't benefit us. It benefits St Kilda greatly, but doesn't benefit us.

You don't think Gresham + a late pick is a fair deal for Dylan Shiel?

 

[Dons4days]

If this bloke warrants band 1 compo then the system needs a serious revamp. He's a role player at best.

 

[eth-dog]

You don't think Gresham + a late pick is a fair deal for Dylan Shiel?

I don't think it's worth paying overs for him salary wise to get a late pick for Shiel.

 

[L_W_P]

I don't think it's worth paying overs for him salary wise to get a late pick for Shiel.

It's not paying overs to get a late pick.

It's paying overs to get Gresham.

St Kilda might be bluffing but they are waiting to see what contract is offered by Essendon. If it's low enough then it'll be matched and Essendon will be forced to trade for Gresham. That might end up being a 2nd round pick, 27. So the club has to decide if it's worth paying Gresham 'overs' in order to keep pick 27.

The Shiel part is to open up more room in Essendon's cap because, despite having plenty spare, they didn't anticipate having to pay Gresham 800k+ as a FA.

Hypothetical A:
Essendon lose pick 27, gain Gresham @ $500k

Hypotherical B:
Essendon lose Shiel, gain pick 50 + Gresham @ $800k

Hypothetical C:
Essendon don't get Gresham

Given Shiel is borderline best 22, over 30, and has had recurring injury issues it would make sense to essentially trade him out for a younger player that is expected be in the starting 18 every week.

 

[tiger_tough]

Band 1 for Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

?

 

[eth-dog]

It's not paying overs to get a late pick.

It's paying overs to get Gresham.

St Kilda might be bluffing but they are waiting to see what contract is offered by Essendon. If it's low enough then it'll be matched and Essendon will be forced to trade for Gresham. That might end up being a 2nd round pick, 27. So the club has to decide if it's worth paying Gresham 'overs' in order to keep pick 27.

The Shiel part is to open up more room in Essendon's cap because, despite having plenty spare, they didn't anticipate having to pay Gresham 800k+ as a FA.

Hypothetical A:
Essendon lose pick 27, gain Gresham @ $500k

Hypotherical B:
Essendon lose Shiel, gain pick 50 + Gresham @ $800k

Hypothetical C:
Essendon don't get Gresham

Given Shiel is borderline best 22, over 30, and has had recurring injury issues it would make sense to essentially trade him out for a younger player that is expected be in the starting 18 every week.

It's paying overs to get a late pick for Shiel, a pick we probably won't use.

Scenario 1: We keep the same offer to Gresham to net band 2 compensation for St. Kilda. We trade Shiel and pay part of his salary to get pick 31.

Scenario 2: We overpay for Gresham, netting St. Kilda band 1. We trade Shiel for 31 whilst paying part of his salary.

Scenario 3: St Kilda match in scenario 1 and we either don't get him or St Kilda hamstrings themselves out of a better pick.

There literally is no benefit to us overpaying for him if we don't get pick 13. Before you say I don't understand your point, that's incorrect. I completely understand it but it's incorrect.

 

[L_W_P]

It's paying overs to get a late pick for Shiel, a pick we probably won't use.

Scenario 1: We keep the same offer to Gresham to net band 2 compensation for St. Kilda. We trade Shiel and pay part of his salary to get pick 31.

Scenario 2: We overpay for Gresham, netting St. Kilda band 1. We trade Shiel for 31 whilst paying part of his salary.

Scenario 3: St Kilda match in scenario 1 and we either don't get him or St Kilda hamstrings themselves out of a better pick.

There literally is no benefit to us overpaying for him if we don't get pick 13. Before you say I don't understand your point, that's incorrect. I completely understand it but it's incorrect.

Yeah it's where this gets tricky because there's really no benefit to the Saints to lose pick 31 and Gresham to get Shiel and band 2 compo.

They might do something like your scenario 2. Given the supposedly shallow nature of this draft, the difference between 31 and 50 might not be so great that St Kilda really care too much. If that means we end up with pick 13 then so be it.

 

[eth-dog]

Yeah it's where this gets tricky because there's really no benefit to the Saints to lose pick 31 and Gresham to get Shiel and band 2 compo.

They might do something like your scenario 2. Given the supposedly shallow nature of this draft, the difference between 31 and 50 might not be so great that St Kilda really care too much. If that means we end up with pick 13 then so be it.

We treat them as two separate deals. We pay Gresham what he's worth then haggle over Shiel. If we miss on McKay then we could be looking at Howard. Just do a straight swap

 

[Suma Magic]

No chance that the saints match a bid, even if it’s band 3.

 

[Big Fresh]

Trading Shiel for a token pick isn't worthwhile by itself, let alone heavily overpaying Gresham on top of it.

 

[Suma Magic]

Even though in theory, this rort should work, it’s still hard to see how it would.

I think it generally works better if the saints are trading a second player to bombers. Saints pay most of his salary and get unders pick wise.

 

[Mich0]

If this rort works it wouldn’t surprise me to see Dees do the same with Grundy and Jordan to the Swans.

Dees trade Grundy and pickup 100% of his salary to Swans

Swans pickup Jordan as FA on 850k a year.

Dees pickup band 1 compo and token pick for Grundy.

 

[Duckworth]

Trading Shiel for a token pick isn't worthwhile by itself, let alone heavily overpaying Gresham on top of it.

It is St Kilda fans posting scenarios that benefit them - without considering the benefits to the other side.

It's Jade Gresham, nobody would give a **** if this deal doesn't get done.

 

[Andre the Giant]

If the AFL rubber stamp this proposed deal they should just do away with the draft and make it a free for all. It looks like peak tampering and abuse of this stupid compensation system to me.

The AFL needs to rethink this part of recruitment, it’s broken.

In 2023 with the level of analysis and sophistication we have to judge players surely every player in the competition should have a rating. Isn’t that what Champion Data do?

This rating can be assessed with their stats in AFL and lower leagues and against every other player. At the end of every season this rating should be applied and the players trade compensation should be based on this.

Unlike contract tenure and remuneration this cannot be manipulated and hence would give a truer and fairer value. Not Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

’s value from 2020 or a rival club’s desperation, Jade Gresham

11

Jade Gresham

Age

27

Ht

177cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.4

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.7

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

17.5

4star

K

10.8

4star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.5

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

3.4

5star

G

0.4

3star

’s value at the end of 2023 based on his stats and position in the competition.

No system would be perfect but if you assumed compensation based primarily on this matrix it would be much more fair.

 

[Jackie_Moon]

Please let this Gresham to Essendon thing be media driven nonsense

 

[Duckworth]

Everyone asking why Essedon would over pay for Gresham. The answer is simple - St Kilda are planning to match anything that falls short of band 1 compensation.

 

[L_W_P]

We treat them as two separate deals. We pay Gresham what he's worth then haggle over Shiel. If we miss on McKay then we could be looking at Howard. Just do a straight swap

But the Shiel move is entirely dependent on Gresham?

I don't think St Kilda have any real interest in bringing Dylan Shiel across, he's simply being used as a mechanism to help the Bombers clear 800k-1m out of their salary cap so that they have more to pay Gresham with.

If Gresham ends up staying at the Saints, they won't be looking to do a deal to bring Shiel across.

Saints would be looking to do the same thing if Andy Phillips was going to be on 800k next year. The actual player is irrelevant. The idea is to clear extra space in Essendon's cap so that they don't have to trade for Gresham.

From a Bombers POV it's pick 27 in a trade or the supposed 'Shiel Deal'.

 

[eth-dog]

But the Shiel move is entirely dependent on Gresham?

I don't think St Kilda have any real interest in bringing Dylan Shiel across, he's simply being used as a mechanisim to help the Bombers clear 800k-1m out of their salary cap so that they have more to pay Gresham with.

If Gresham ends up staying at the Saints, they won't be looking to do a deal to bring Shiel across.

We don't need the cap space. Jon Ralph is talking out of his ass.

 

[projectv]

Everyone asking why Essedon would over pay for Gresham. The answer is simple - St Kilda are planning to match anything that falls short of band 1 compensation.

If that happens then Essendon would have to trade for Gresham and this impacts their draft hand. vs getting Grtesham at no cost.

St Kilda are offering a token trade for Dylan Shiel so that Essendon have the extra space to bump up Gresham's contract. Yes, Im aware they have heaps in the cap but the Saints are going to push for Gresham to get up to 300k more than Essendon planned.

If Essendon do the deal they essentially trade Shiel for Gresham + a late pick. Win for Essendon.
If St Kilda do the deal then they swap Gresham + late pick for Shiel + pick 13. Win for St Kilda.
If the deal isn't done then St Kilda plan on keeping Gresham on the reduced salary set by Essendon.

Whether the AFL allow all this is another matter. Adelaide would rightly question it all given a similar deal was proposed for Crouch coming to the Saints. The AFL then handicapped themselves by allowing the Suns to offload Jack Bowes' contract last year.

I expect the AFL to allow it though, in order to open up more player movements through 'salary dumping'.

If we were seriously entertaining that why would it revolve around Shiel who is 30 and cooked when we could go after a player who we might actually want to give games?

 

[L_W_P]

We don't need the cap space. Jon Ralph is talking out of his ass.

Oh for sure. I guess it's a longer term thing?

If you have $2 mil clear now and bring in Gresh on $600k and McKay on $800k then you have $600k left for draftees and to front load a few deals.

If you then offload Shiel it opens up more room to front load deals in 2024 and possibly have another crack at FA in 12 months?

 

[L_W_P]

If we were seriously entertaining that why would it revolve around Shiel who is 30 and cooked when we could go after a player who we might actually want to give games?

Because Shiel is on 800k-$1m next season.

Take 300k of that to 'overpay' Gresh and it leaves the Bombers with 500k+ to either buy another player or front load some contracts and have another crack at FA in 12 months time.