Toast James Sicily - Hawthorn captain 2023 - AA 2023!

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Congratulations to James Sicily. Angry young man drafted with pick 56 becomes AFL captain. He has come a long way. It's a good story.

I expect the team to be a bit edgier as a result so am very much looking forward to round 1 against the Bombers.
 
Congratulations to Sic on being appointed captain. Follows in the footsteps of some tremendous servants of the club:

Player NameSeason(s)Awards and Notes
Alf Gough1914
Joe Larkin1915
Len Gibb1919
Ted Alley1920
Frank Rigaldi1920Replaced Ted Alley after Alley left the club
Jim Jackson1921, 1925Jackson was Hawthorn's inaugural captain when Hawthorn joined the VFL
Arthur Rademacher1922Later coached Hawthorn for four games (as a stand-in coach) in 1933
Bill Walton1923-1924
Paddy Burke1926
Dan Minogue1926
Clarrie Lethlean1927
Bert Sutton1928
Albert Chadwick1929Chadwick was Mentioned in Dispatches for his service in WWI and was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal in 1919
John Harris1930-1931
Bert Mills1932, 1934, 1938, 1940-1941Mills was Hawthorn's captain-coach in 1940 and 1941. Mills is a member of Hawthorn's Hall of Fame and Team of the Century
Fred Phillips1933Phillips was appointed captain-coach of Hawthorn in March 1933, but died of blood poisoning caused by a cut elbow before playing a game. It was suspected that the dye in the club jumper was toxic.
Bill Twomey Sr1933Appointed as captain-coach following the death of Fred Phillips. Twomey retired from playing after the 1933 season and coached Hawthorn in 1934 (he played one game for Hawthorn in 1934, as a fill-in)
Ivan McAlpine1935-1937
Len Thomas1939
Jack Carmody1942
Bob Williams1943
Jim Bohan1944, 1946Named in Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Keith Shea1945
Alec Albiston1947-1949First Hawthorn player to kick 10 goals in a match and was four times Hawthorn's leading goalkicker in a season (1939, 1941, 1942, 1945). Was appointed captain-coach in 1947. Named to Hawthorn's Hall of Fame
Kevin Curran1950-1951
Peter O'Donohue1952
Ted Fletcher1953-1954
John Kennedy Sr1955-1959Acted as stand-in coach for one game in 1957 when regular coach Jack Hale was involved in a vehicular accident on the way to the game and missed the match.

After retiring at the end of the 1959 season from playing, Kanga became Hawthorn's permanent coach and coached Hawthorn to a grand final loss (to Geelong) in 1963. He was forced to resign as coach in order to take over as school principal in Stawell. On returning to the club in 1967, he coached Hawthorn in 221 further games, including premierships in 1971 and 1976, and a second grand final loss in 1975.

Kennedy was named a Legend of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and of Hawthorn, and is named as Hawthorn's Team of the Century coach
Graham Arthur1960-1968Was Hawthorn's inaugural premiership captain in 1961. Arthur was named a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and is named as Captain of Hawthorn's Team of the Century. Arthur is also in the Australian Football Hall of Fame
John Peck1965Was named co-captain of Hawthorn in 1965 with Graham Arthur. It is the last time Hawthorn has had co-captains.
David Parkin1969-1973Was Hawthorn's captain for the 1971 premiership under John Kennedy Sr. Parkin later coached Hawthorn from 1977 to 1980, including the 1978 premiership, before coaching at Carlton and Fitzroy. Parkin is a Legend of the Hawthorn Football Club Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame.
Peter Crimmins1974-1975
Don Scott1976-1980Won two premierships as captain of the club (1976, 1978)
Leigh Matthews1981-1985Matthews is the greatest footballer ever to play the game. During his captaincy, he led Hawthorn's goalkicking on four separate occasions (1981, 1982, 1983 and 1984). He was captain in Hawthorn's premiership year of 1983 (and he also played in the 1971, 1976 and 1978 premierships). He won eight best and fairests at Hawthorn (including the 1982 best and fairest as captain). He won the Coleman Medal in 1975. Matthews is named to the AFL Team of the Century and the Hawthorn Team of the Century. He has Legend status in the Australian Football Hall of Fame, and is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Michael Tuck1986-1991Tuck is a four-time premiership captain of the club (seven premierships overall) - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991. Tuck was named the VFLPA best captain in 1986.

Tuck is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame. He is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Gary Ayres1992-1993Ayres was the first player to win two Norm Smith Medals (1986 and 1988) and is a five-time premiership player (1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). Ayres also captained Victoria in a State of Origin match against Tasmania in 1989. Ayres is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Chris Langford1994Langford is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). He is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Jason Dunstall1995-1998Dunstall is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991) and is a three-time Coleman Medalist (1988, 1989, 1992). Dunstall led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 12 seasons (1986-1996). Dunstall is a Australian Football Hall of Fame member, and has Legend status in Hawthorn's Hall of Fame. Dunstall is a member of Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Shane Crawford1999-2004Crawford is Hawthorn's only captain to win a Brownlow medal (while captain), having won the award in 1999. He was named two-times All-Australian as captain of Hawthorn (1999, 2002) and was three times Hawthorn's best and fairest as captain (1999, 2002 and 2003). Crawford, of course, was part of the 2008 premiership in his last AFL game.
Richie Vandenberg2005-2007
Sam Mitchell2008-2010Sam is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn, including captain of the 2008 premiership. Sam won the 2012 Brownlow Medal jointly with Trent Cotchin, and is a five-time Hawthorn best and fairest (2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016). Sam also won a VFL premiership (2001), the J.J. Liston Trophy (2002) and the Col Austen Trophy (2002)
Luke Hodge2011-2016Hodge is a four-time premiership player and was captain for three of those premierships (2013-2015). Hodge won the 2008 and 2014 Norm Smith Medals (the second as captain), and he was voted the AFLPA best captain in 2014.
Jarryd Roughead2017-2018Roughead is a four-time premiership player (2008, 2013-2015). Roughead won the Coleman Medal in 2013 and led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 2013, 2014 and 2017.
Ben Stratton2019-2020Stratton is a three-time premiership player (2013-2015).
Ben McEvoy2021-2022McEvoy is a two-time premiership player (2014, 2015).
James Sicily2023-onwards
 
BobHawk said:
Congratulations to James Sicily. Angry young man drafted with pick 56 becomes AFL captain. He has come a long way. It's a good story.

I expect the team to be a bit edgier as a result so am very much looking forward to round 1 against the Bombers.
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with having a captain with a touch of campaigner in them.

Hodgey and Mitch weren't exactly alter boys in that regards and they went okay as captain's.
 
Dixie Flatline said:
After retiring at the end of the 1959 season from playing, Kanga became Hawthorn's permanent coach and coached Hawthorn to a grand final loss (to Geelong) in 1963. He was forced to resign as coach in order to take over as school principal in Stawell. On returning to the club in 1967, he coached Hawthorn in 221 further games, including premierships in 1971 and 1976, and a second grand final loss in 1975.
Click to expand...


Re John Kennedy (Kanga)

Should also be noted that JK Snr coached our 1st Premiership in 1961
 

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Dixie Flatline said:
Congratulations to Sic on being appointed captain. Follows in the footsteps of some tremendous servants of the club:

Player NameSeason(s)Awards and Notes
Alf Gough1914
Joe Larkin1915
Len Gibb1919
Ted Alley1920
Frank Rigaldi1920Replaced Ted Alley after Alley left the club
Jim Jackson1921, 1925Jackson was Hawthorn's inaugural captain when Hawthorn joined the VFL
Arthur Rademacher1922Later coached Hawthorn for four games (as a stand-in coach) in 1933
Bill Walton1923-1924
Paddy Burke1926
Dan Minogue1926
Clarrie Lethlean1927
Bert Sutton1928
Albert Chadwick1929Chadwick was Mentioned in Dispatches for his service in WWI and was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal in 1919
John Harris1930-1931
Bert Mills1932, 1934, 1938, 1940-1941Mills was Hawthorn's captain-coach in 1940 and 1941. Mills is a member of Hawthorn's Hall of Fame and Team of the Century
Fred Phillips1933Phillips was appointed captain-coach of Hawthorn in March 1933, but died of blood poisoning caused by a cut elbow before playing a game. It was suspected that the dye in the club jumper was toxic.
Bill Twomey Sr1933Appointed as captain-coach following the death of Fred Phillips. Twomey retired from playing after the 1933 season and coached Hawthorn in 1934 (he played one game for Hawthorn in 1934, as a fill-in)
Ivan McAlpine1935-1937
Len Thomas1939
Jack Carmody1942
Bob Williams1943
Jim Bohan1944, 1946Named in Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Keith Shea1945
Alec Albiston1947-1949First Hawthorn player to kick 10 goals in a match and was four times Hawthorn's leading goalkicker in a season (1939, 1941, 1942, 1945). Was appointed captain-coach in 1947. Named to Hawthorn's Hall of Fame
Kevin Curran1950-1951
Peter O'Donohue1952
Ted Fletcher1953-1954
John Kennedy Sr1955-1959Acted as stand-in coach for one game in 1957 when regular coach Jack Hale was involved in a vehicular accident on the way to the game and missed the match.

After retiring at the end of the 1959 season from playing, Kanga became Hawthorn's permanent coach and coached Hawthorn to a grand final loss (to Geelong) in 1963. He was forced to resign as coach in order to take over as school principal in Stawell. On returning to the club in 1967, he coached Hawthorn in 221 further games, including premierships in 1971 and 1976, and a second grand final loss in 1975.

Kennedy was named a Legend of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and of Hawthorn, and is named as Hawthorn's Team of the Century coach
Graham Arthur1960-1968Was Hawthorn's inaugural premiership captain in 1961. Arthur was named a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and is named as Captain of Hawthorn's Team of the Century. Arthur is also in the Australian Football Hall of Fame
John Peck1965Was named co-captain of Hawthorn in 1965 with Graham Arthur. It is the last time Hawthorn has had co-captains.
David Parkin1969-1973Was Hawthorn's captain for the 1971 premiership under John Kennedy Sr. Parkin later coached Hawthorn from 1977 to 1980, including the 1978 premiership, before coaching at Carlton and Fitzroy. Parkin is a Legend of the Hawthorn Football Club Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame.
Peter Crimmins1974-1975
Don Scott1976-1980Won two premierships as captain of the club (1976, 1978)
Leigh Matthews1981-1985Matthews is the greatest footballer ever to play the game. During his captaincy, he led Hawthorn's goalkicking on four separate occasions (1981, 1982, 1983 and 1984). He was captain in Hawthorn's premiership year of 1983 (and he also played in the 1971, 1976 and 1978 premierships). He won eight best and fairests at Hawthorn (including the 1982 best and fairest as captain). He won the Coleman Medal in 1975. Matthews is named to the AFL Team of the Century and the Hawthorn Team of the Century. He has Legend status in the Australian Football Hall of Fame, and is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Michael Tuck1986-1991Tuck is a four-time premiership captain of the club (seven premierships overall) - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991. Tuck was named the VFLPA best captain in 1986.

Tuck is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame. He is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Gary Ayres1992-1993Ayres was the first player to win two Norm Smith Medals (1986 and 1988) and is a five-time premiership player (1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). Ayres also captained Victoria in a State of Origin match against Tasmania in 1989. Ayres is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Chris Langford1994Langford is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). He is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Jason Dunstall1995-1998Dunstall is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991) and is a three-time Coleman Medalist (1988, 1989, 1992). Dunstall led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 12 seasons (1986-1996). Dunstall is a Australian Football Hall of Fame member, and has Legend status in Hawthorn's Hall of Fame. Dunstall is a member of Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Shane Crawford1999-2004Crawford is Hawthorn's only captain to win a Brownlow medal (while captain), having won the award in 1999. He was named two-times All-Australian as captain of Hawthorn (1999, 2002) and was three times Hawthorn's best and fairest as captain (1999, 2002 and 2003). Crawford, of course, was part of the 2008 premiership in his last AFL game.
Richie Vandenberg2005-2007
Sam Mitchell2008-2010Sam is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn, including captain of the 2008 premiership. Sam won the 2012 Brownlow Medal jointly with Trent Cotchin, and is a five-time Hawthorn best and fairest (2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016). Sam also won a VFL premiership (2001), the J.J. Liston Trophy (2002) and the Col Austen Trophy (2002)
Luke Hodge2011-2016Hodge is a four-time premiership player and was captain for three of those premierships (2013-2015). Hodge won the 2008 and 2014 Norm Smith Medals (the second as captain), and he was voted the AFLPA best captain in 2014.
Jarryd Roughead2017-2018Roughead is a four-time premiership player (2008, 2013-2015). Roughead won the Coleman Medal in 2013 and led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 2013, 2014 and 2017.
Ben Stratton2019-2020Stratton is a three-time premiership player (2013-2015).
Ben McEvoy2021-2022McEvoy is a two-time premiership player (2014, 2015).
James Sicily2023-onwards
Click to expand...
Vandenberg the only captain since John Kennedy Snr to not win a premiership. Sicily will NOT be joining him on that list.
 
Dixie Flatline said:
Congratulations to Sic on being appointed captain. Follows in the footsteps of some tremendous servants of the club:

Player NameSeason(s)Awards and Notes
Alf Gough1914
Joe Larkin1915
Len Gibb1919
Ted Alley1920
Frank Rigaldi1920Replaced Ted Alley after Alley left the club
Jim Jackson1921, 1925Jackson was Hawthorn's inaugural captain when Hawthorn joined the VFL
Arthur Rademacher1922Later coached Hawthorn for four games (as a stand-in coach) in 1933
Bill Walton1923-1924
Paddy Burke1926
Dan Minogue1926
Clarrie Lethlean1927
Bert Sutton1928
Albert Chadwick1929Chadwick was Mentioned in Dispatches for his service in WWI and was awarded the Meritorious Service Medal in 1919
John Harris1930-1931
Bert Mills1932, 1934, 1938, 1940-1941Mills was Hawthorn's captain-coach in 1940 and 1941. Mills is a member of Hawthorn's Hall of Fame and Team of the Century
Fred Phillips1933Phillips was appointed captain-coach of Hawthorn in March 1933, but died of blood poisoning caused by a cut elbow before playing a game. It was suspected that the dye in the club jumper was toxic.
Bill Twomey Sr1933Appointed as captain-coach following the death of Fred Phillips. Twomey retired from playing after the 1933 season and coached Hawthorn in 1934 (he played one game for Hawthorn in 1934, as a fill-in)
Ivan McAlpine1935-1937
Len Thomas1939
Jack Carmody1942
Bob Williams1943
Jim Bohan1944, 1946Named in Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Keith Shea1945
Alec Albiston1947-1949First Hawthorn player to kick 10 goals in a match and was four times Hawthorn's leading goalkicker in a season (1939, 1941, 1942, 1945). Was appointed captain-coach in 1947. Named to Hawthorn's Hall of Fame
Kevin Curran1950-1951
Peter O'Donohue1952
Ted Fletcher1953-1954
John Kennedy Sr1955-1959Acted as stand-in coach for one game in 1957 when regular coach Jack Hale was involved in a vehicular accident on the way to the game and missed the match.

After retiring at the end of the 1959 season from playing, Kanga became Hawthorn's permanent coach and coached Hawthorn to a grand final loss (to Geelong) in 1963. He was forced to resign as coach in order to take over as school principal in Stawell. On returning to the club in 1967, he coached Hawthorn in 221 further games, including premierships in 1971 and 1976, and a second grand final loss in 1975.

Kennedy was named a Legend of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and of Hawthorn, and is named as Hawthorn's Team of the Century coach
Graham Arthur1960-1968Was Hawthorn's inaugural premiership captain in 1961. Arthur was named a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and is named as Captain of Hawthorn's Team of the Century. Arthur is also in the Australian Football Hall of Fame
John Peck1965Was named co-captain of Hawthorn in 1965 with Graham Arthur. It is the last time Hawthorn has had co-captains.
David Parkin1969-1973Was Hawthorn's captain for the 1971 premiership under John Kennedy Sr. Parkin later coached Hawthorn from 1977 to 1980, including the 1978 premiership, before coaching at Carlton and Fitzroy. Parkin is a Legend of the Hawthorn Football Club Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame.
Peter Crimmins1974-1975
Don Scott1976-1980Won two premierships as captain of the club (1976, 1978)
Leigh Matthews1981-1985Matthews is the greatest footballer ever to play the game. During his captaincy, he led Hawthorn's goalkicking on four separate occasions (1981, 1982, 1983 and 1984). He was captain in Hawthorn's premiership year of 1983 (and he also played in the 1971, 1976 and 1978 premierships). He won eight best and fairests at Hawthorn (including the 1982 best and fairest as captain). He won the Coleman Medal in 1975. Matthews is named to the AFL Team of the Century and the Hawthorn Team of the Century. He has Legend status in the Australian Football Hall of Fame, and is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Michael Tuck1986-1991Tuck is a four-time premiership captain of the club (seven premierships overall) - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991. Tuck was named the VFLPA best captain in 1986.

Tuck is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame. He is a Legend of the Hawthorn Hall of Fame and a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Gary Ayres1992-1993Ayres was the first player to win two Norm Smith Medals (1986 and 1988) and is a five-time premiership player (1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). Ayres also captained Victoria in a State of Origin match against Tasmania in 1989. Ayres is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame.
Chris Langford1994Langford is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991). He is a member of the Australian Football Hall of Fame and the Hawthorn Hall of Fame, and is a member of the Hawthorn Team of the Century
Jason Dunstall1995-1998Dunstall is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn (1986, 1988, 1989, 1991) and is a three-time Coleman Medalist (1988, 1989, 1992). Dunstall led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 12 seasons (1986-1996). Dunstall is a Australian Football Hall of Fame member, and has Legend status in Hawthorn's Hall of Fame. Dunstall is a member of Hawthorn's Team of the Century
Shane Crawford1999-2004Crawford is Hawthorn's only captain to win a Brownlow medal (while captain), having won the award in 1999. He was named two-times All-Australian as captain of Hawthorn (1999, 2002) and was three times Hawthorn's best and fairest as captain (1999, 2002 and 2003). Crawford, of course, was part of the 2008 premiership in his last AFL game.
Richie Vandenberg2005-2007
Sam Mitchell2008-2010Sam is a four-time premiership player with Hawthorn, including captain of the 2008 premiership. Sam won the 2012 Brownlow Medal jointly with Trent Cotchin, and is a five-time Hawthorn best and fairest (2006, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2016). Sam also won a VFL premiership (2001), the J.J. Liston Trophy (2002) and the Col Austen Trophy (2002)
Luke Hodge2011-2016Hodge is a four-time premiership player and was captain for three of those premierships (2013-2015). Hodge won the 2008 and 2014 Norm Smith Medals (the second as captain), and he was voted the AFLPA best captain in 2014.
Jarryd Roughead2017-2018Roughead is a four-time premiership player (2008, 2013-2015). Roughead won the Coleman Medal in 2013 and led Hawthorn's goalkicking in 2013, 2014 and 2017.
Ben Stratton2019-2020Stratton is a three-time premiership player (2013-2015).
Ben McEvoy2021-2022McEvoy is a two-time premiership player (2014, 2015).
James Sicily2023-onwards
Click to expand...
Well you can see why we’ve never lost a knockout final to Geelong since 1963 given our tradition of punishing the losing captain by making him resign and forcing him to become a school principal in regional Victoria.

Just imagine the Hawthorn hierarchy laying it out to Kanga at the end of 63. “Lose to the Cats. Well it’s off to Stawell for you son. This ain’t no gift, all we asked was that you and the team did! But you thought instead! Bloody Hell! So Stawell it is!

Apparently Kanga was deeply affected by this painful formative experience. But his subsequent career as a coach would be all the better for it.
 
I'm torn on this one.
Wish him the best.
It will be an interesting watch. He has character traits, on field, that don't lend themselves to the more convential ideal of a captain. He can be petulant and ill disciplined at times. Hopefully he continues to mature.

If the playing group respect him and he can grow into the role he could be an exceptional captain. I'm just not 100 per cent sold at this point. Prove me wrong Sis.
 
burger09 said:
I'm torn on this one.
Wish him the best.
It will be an interesting watch. He has character traits, on field, that don't lend themselves to the more convential ideal of a captain. He can be petulant and ill disciplined at times. Hopefully he continues to mature.

If the playing group respect him and he can grow into the role he could be an exceptional captain. I'm just not 100 per cent sold at this point. Prove me wrong Sis.
Click to expand...
Bit lost here mate, you're looking for the Luke Hodge - Hawthorn Captain 2011 thread.
 
Well at least we have a skipper with plenty of fire in the belly who's young enough to stay in the job for longer than his predecessors.

Never know, this could end up being a smart choice.
 
TDS7 said:
Bit lost here mate, you're looking for the Luke Hodge - Hawthorn Captain 2011 thread.
Click to expand...
Hodge was different.

He didn’t lose his focus and do some of the stupid things that Sic has done in the past.

He was firm and physical, but didn’t back chat umpires or drop his bottom lip.

Hopefully we don’t see that from James anymore either, because he is clearly our best player, and can lead by example in that regard.

If the immature stuff is out of his game for good, then we have nothing to worry about. 👍
 
This shows what a club we are. The people involved helping transitioning boys into men. Obviously all the trolls on socials from other clubs commenting on the appointment havnt watched football or James Sicily over the last 4-5 years, not only has he become a premier defender in the AFL but has now matured into a captain of the most successful club in the last 50 years. Absolutely rapt for the kid, 100 percent the right bloke to take us forward. Congrats Sis, go Hawks
Love this club
 
HedgeFund said:
Hodge was different.

He didn’t lose his focus and do some of the stupid things that Sic has done in the past.

He was firm and physical, but didn’t back chat umpires or drop his bottom lip.

Hopefully we don’t see that from James anymore either, because he is clearly our best player, and can lead by example in that regard.

If the immature stuff is out of his game for good, then we have nothing to worry about. 👍
Click to expand...
I love Hodgey as much as the next guy, he's my second favourite Hawk of all time, but let's not kid ourselves here. Hodgey was firey, brash, and gave away a few frees for playing reckless and chatting back. What's Sicily done that's so bad you question his leadership? He's had a few cheeky jabs at players before, but apart from that one free kick out of the bounce against the Bulldogs that cost us the game, which was horseradish levels of bullshit, he's never cost us a game from my memory. Not saying Hodgey has either, but if people are still spouting rubbish about Sis' immaturity and fiery nature costing us games and not making him fit for the Captaincy then more people still listen to Kane Cornes than I thought. If you want a club with soft, boring, uninspiring leaders go barrack for North.
 

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