January 26th 2025

[Carringbush2010]

The point is to have an Australia Day which represents the good things about Australia. And the invasion/First Fleet was not a good thing.

People have proposed all sorts of other dates.

Perhaps until a treaty is signed, there can't really be enough to celebrate for everyone. It's still an occupation. ATSI people have never ceded their territory under any treaty or agreement.

Apparently there isn't anything good about Australia though according to some on here and in the real world and ATSI will never cede nor should they their territory.

So we're at an impasse and always will be, as I said at the start, this thread isn't about the date at all, it's an opportunity for the perpetually miserable to grind their axe and yell at the world.

I find it rather abhorrent of those that claim moral high ground yet use this topic as a political football to express their various outrage claims (like monarchy, bogans, murdoch etc.) at the country they likely live in without grace, with faux regards to ATSI. All they do is rile up the racist and bigoted.

Perhaps we should just ignore those two minority groups and let them have at it themselves and the rest of us can reach a compromise on not just the date but about all the current inequalities and injustices that indigenous people face.

 

[Goroyals22]

[emoji6]" data-quote="Saint" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

No, it was the start of a penal colony and dispossession. Very very few countries celebrate the date a specific race landed as their national day.

Even the other colonial ones.

Sorry Didums… there are options for you , you know…

Either way it was the commencement of the nation which became Australia… and what a good thing it is…


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[Rob R]

There's a crisis in recruitment for the ADF. What's needed are not people looking to build a career, but people who are willing to make sacrifices in service of their country. But if they are constantly told their country is something to be ashamed of, why should they want to defend it? That's why Australia Day is important as a symbol, because it does spark a sense of belonging to something bigger than themselves.

Crap housing, crap medical, far too many resources soaked up by the ever bloating Canberra hierarchy, no time to recover and train after being sent to cover up the underfunding of civilian agencies during crisis, more jobs sent to crappier areas with no job support for spouses, desperately needed new equipment delayed or bought to lower specifications because a pollie listened to a lobbyist or cared more about an announcement for a marginal seat

They are probably bigger issues.

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[South of the Yarra]

As stated 100 times on this thread any acknowledgement of becoming this country will be clouded with “invasion” . There will never ever be a date that will suffice. Hence the reason the “change the date” brigade can’t come up with an alternative

You could not be further from the truth.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Apparently there isn't anything good about Australia though according to some on here and in the real world and ATSI will never cede nor should they their territory.

So we're at an impasse and always will be, as I said at the start, this thread isn't about the date at all, it's an opportunity for the perpetually miserable to grind their axe and yell at the world.

I find it rather abhorrent of those that claim moral high ground yet use this topic as a political football to express their various outrage claims (like monarchy, bogans, murdoch etc.) at the country they likely live in without grace, with faux regards to ATSI. All they do is rile up the racist and bigoted.

Perhaps we should just ignore those two minority groups and let them have at it themselves and the rest of us can reach a compromise on not just the date but about all the current inequalities and injustices that indigenous people face.

Sounds like a cop out, honestly. I'd say 80% of the change the date crowd literally just want to change the date to something less divisive. If anything, moving the date would save Australia Day in the longterm. Kids don't know the sense of community the day used to have surrounding it and only know the yearly argument. Changing the date actually benefits the patriotic Aussie more than Indigenous people.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Sounds like a cop out, honestly. I'd say 80% of the change the date crowd literally just want to change the date to something less divisive. If anything, moving the date would save Australia Day in the longterm.

A cop out? Really? Please explain how my post is a 'cop out'

I did say some do not want to unify, not all. Of course the change the date advocates want a less divisive day, the majority of and probably more than 80%, but that's not the point though is it.

There's been continuous concession from some of the change the date crowd, that even if the date is changed, there'll still be wallowing on the negatives of past history, there'll be intent to bring up the negatives. This sort of attitude is counterproductive.

It's like saying 'Hey, let's unify, but we'll still express rage and anger at you non indigeous, coz we're angry but still give us everything we want'

Again, there's only a few that have this wish to hold lament, yet gets all the attention, coz media like to make noise and the angry exacerbate it social media, like here, and like our resident axe grinding op.

So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should'

Ok a bit of mayo there, but let's not pretend there isn't some indigenous people and non indigenous advocates that feel this way. Counterproductive, which ever way you boil it down and dissect it.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

A cop out? Really? Please explain how my post is a 'cop out'

I did say some do not want to unify, not all. Of course the change the date advocates want a less divisive day, the majority of and probably more than 80%, but that's not the point though is it.

There's been continuous concession from some of the change the date crowd, that even if the date is changed, there'll still be wallowing on the negatives of past history, there'll be intent to bring up the negatives. This sort of attitude is counterproductive.

It's like saying 'Hey, let's unify, but we'll still express rage and anger at you non indigeous, coz we're angry but still give us everything we want'

Again, there's only a few that have this wish to hold lament, yet gets all the attention, coz media like to make noise and the angry exacerbate it social media, like here, and like our resident axe grinding op.

So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should'

Ok a bit of mayo there, but let's not pretend there isn't some indigenous people and non indigenous advocates that feel this way. Counterproductive, which ever way you boil it down and dissect it.

my commisserations. I wasn’t aware you were the victim here.

 

[aCunningPlan]

A cop out? Really? Please explain how my post is a 'cop out'

I did say some do not want to unify, not all. Of course the change the date advocates want a less divisive day, the majority of and probably more than 80%, but that's not the point though is it.

There's been continuous concession from some of the change the date crowd, that even if the date is changed, there'll still be wallowing on the negatives of past history, there'll be intent to bring up the negatives. This sort of attitude is counterproductive.

It's like saying 'Hey, let's unify, but we'll still express rage and anger at you non indigeous, coz we're angry but still give us everything we want'

Again, there's only a few that have this wish to hold lament, yet gets all the attention, coz media like to make noise and the angry exacerbate it social media, like here, and like our resident axe grinding op.

So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should'

Ok a bit of mayo there, but let's not pretend there isn't some indigenous people and non indigenous advocates that feel this way. Counterproductive, which ever way you boil it down and dissect it.

You accept changing the date would placate nearly everyone calling for change but focus on the eternally offended... something the eternally offended would do. Once the date is changed businesses and sport, even triple j would jump on and sing all things aussie. The tide would change.

 

[1990crow]

It sickens me the Indigenous People of this country are simply asking to feel heard and acknowledged for the ancestral history to the land, to become a real part of the country moving forward..

And conservatives of this country are spitting in their faces, as they've always done.

 

[Carringbush2010]

my commisserations. I wasn’t aware you were the victim here.

Never said I was.

 

[Carringbush2010]

You accept changing the date would placate nearly everyone calling for change but focus on the eternally offended... something the eternally offended would do. Once the date is changed businesses and sport, even triple j would jump on and sing all things aussie. The tide would change.

I do accept a date change, yet you're still not getting it.

Read both my posts that you have replied to again.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Never said I was.

This you?

"So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should’"

 

[Carringbush2010]

This you?

"So how is Jan and Joe public supposed to react to that? ' Yeah no worries, call me all the names under the sun, even though I've personally nothing to do with your disadvantaged situation, it's ok, I'll roll over and cop what you give and I'll genuinely try and feel guilty coz you said I should’"

Yeah and? That's not playing victim, it is what it is.

If you're gonna try and do a reverse victim card on me, I can see what you're doing, ain't gonna work sunshine.

Go grind your axe elsewhere.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Yeah and? That's not playing victim, it is what it is.

If you're gonna try and do a reverse victim card on me, I can see what you're doing, ain't gonna work sunshine.

Go grind your axe elsewhere.

"reverse victim card”? so you do know who the real victims are. You just choose not to give a ****. That's your right.

 

[Carringbush2010]

"reverse victim card”? so you do know who the real victims are. You just choose not to give a ****. That's your right.

Wrong again, if you read my posts you'll know I've acknowledged the wrongs.

That's not me 'not giving a ****' as much as you'd want it to be so you can grind your axe.

I'm just pointing out the uncomfortable, that if the date changes, some have conceded that the angst and lament will continue regardless. And some will want it to continue (like you) so you can continue your rage.

That's counterproductive.

Those that want that negativity to continue, I don't give a **** about, those who are genuinely willing to compromise to reach unity, I certainly do.

 

[liz]

willing to compromise to reach unity, I certainly do.

What does that mean/entail?

 

[Carringbush2010]

What does that mean/entail?

Well I don't know, would need to consult indigenous leaders to what they want, and hopefully they'd properly and genuinely represent what the majority of Aboriginal people want.

Then whatever those wishes are, the remaining public would have to cede and compromise through their elected leaders.

How all that works I don't know, I guess in short a treaty or treaties need to be reached, and to do that there'd have to be compromises. It's not my specialty.

All I'm saying is that the want for angst and lament to continue is counterproductive to that, even if the angst is definitely warranted.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

Well I don't know, would need to consult indigenous leaders to what they want, and hopefully they'd properly and genuinely represent what the majority of Aboriginal people want.

Then whatever those wishes are, the remaining public would have to cede and compromise through their elected leaders.

How all that works I don't know, I guess in short a treaty or treaties need to be reached, and to do that there'd have to be compromises. It's not my specialty.

All I'm saying is that the want for angst and lament to continue is counterproductive to that, even if the angst is definitely warranted.

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

 

[liz]

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

We could start by formalising an elected body to provide indigenous Australians with a way to communicate their ideas to the federal government…

I was actually encouraged by Carringbush’s response. I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day, we can all live happily ever after.

 

[Reg Grundy35]

We could start by formalising an elected body to provide indigenous Australians with a way to communicate their ideas to the federal government…

I was actually encouraged by Carringbush’s response. I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day, we can all live happily ever after.

not at all. Treaty is the real game

 

[Goroyals22]

[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" data-quote="Reg Grundy[emoji6]" data-source="post: 0" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

not at all. Treaty is the real game

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


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[South of the Yarra]

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


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You seem an expert in the matter

 

[adammania9]

Let me guess… hands out for more money that gets wasted


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#1 highest tax payer paid indigenous peoples in the world. They have things very cushy.

 

[Carringbush2010]

clear as mud. So should we have a treaty? Should the date change? Maybe keep it simple.

Yes and yes, but it ain't simple.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I think there are some people who think that if we would only change the date of Australia Day

Thanks Liz, and as I said, there's been allusion in here that even if the date changes the angst and lament will continue, from both ends.

How are we to unify if the few stubbornly want to grind their axe regardless and wreck it for everyone else?