January 26th 2025

[geoffjennings79]

The people who would now defend ‘advance australia fair’ would have fought tooth and nail to defend god save the queen from being replaced by it

Need a new poll for national anthem.

I'd start the list with:

Hoodoo Gurus - In the middle of the land
INXS - Never tear us apart (just for the melts by almost everyone!)
Gangajang - Sounds of then
Warumpi Band - Blackfella, Whitefella (includes the reference "it doesn't matter what your colour", so even pasty potatoes are covered)

And for international sporting events like the Olympics, one option could be track 4 on side B of Skyhooks' "Guilty Until Proven Insane" LP?

 

[Gough]

Need a new poll for national anthem.

I'd start the list with:

Hoodoo Gurus - In the middle of the land
INXS - Never tear us apart (just for the melts by almost everyone!)
Gangajang - Sounds of then
Warumpi Band - Blackfella, Whitefella (includes the reference "it doesn't matter what your colour", so even pasty potatoes are covered)

And for international sporting events like the Olympics, one option could be track 4 on side B of Skyhooks "Guilty Until Proven Insane" LP?

Nobody talks about Skyhooks anymore which is a shame. Living in the 70s was such a good album, they talked about places in Melbourne not LA or New York, the pondered on the post Vietnam malaise, and the realism of the six o'clock news, more than half of it was banned ffs yet it turned fifty last year almost unmarked.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Nobody talks about Skyhooks anymore which is a shame. Living in the 70s was such a good album, they talked about places in Melbourne not LA or New York, the pondered on the post Vietnam malaise, and the realism of the six o'clock news, more than half of it was banned ffs yet it turned fifty last year almost unmarked.

Yep, one of the first Aussie bands to reference Australian places and culture explicitly in most/all of their songs.
("Smiley" an earlier notable exception, written by Johnny Young about Normie Rowe being conscripted, and leaving his family to go fight in "the Asian war", sung by Normie's close friend Ronnie Burns.)

 

[Gough]

Yep, one of the first Aussie bands to reference Australian places and culture explicitly in most/all of their songs.
("Smiley" an earlier notable exception, written by Johnny Young about Normie Rowe being conscripted, and leaving his family to go fight in "the Asian war", sung by Normie's close friend Ronnie Burns.)

I was playing the best of Skyhooks one afternoon doing a bar shift when I had my pub, an Australian couple came in and were gobsmacked to walk into a pub in Berkshire and find Women in Uniform playing.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Barely a peep about Keating and Rudd's busts in Ballarat being decapitated. The Redfern Speech and National Apology have really riled someone up this Australia Day. If this was Cook it would be front page of every paper and leading the national nightly news.

 

[Cmarsh]

I thought Labor were the major party most friendly towards Aboriginal people?

Here Jason Clare comes out to say the date is not changing and calls discussions a "fake fight".

Clare says Dutton’s push to legislate 26 January as Australia Day ‘same fake fight we have every year’​

Circling back to the education minister, Jason Clare, who had been speaking on Sunrise earlier.

He was asked about Peter Dutton’s key proposal to keep Australia Day on 26 January, and if Labor would follow suit. But Clare said “the date’s not changing” and “we have the same fake fight every year”.

This is just another distraction from Dutton to conceal this stinker of a policy. There is a smelly flower in Sydney today, [but] the real stinker here is this idea that taxpayers should pay for their boss’s lunch, and [he] still won’t tell us how much it’s going to cost.

The host said that Dutton wanted to put 26 January as Australia Day into law – would Labor? Clare said it was already in employment law:

That’s what I’m saying. It is a fake fight to distract from the mess of Peter Dutton’s crazy policies.

 

[aCunningPlan]

I thought Labor were the major party most friendly towards Aboriginal people?

Here Jason Clare comes out to say the date is not changing and calls discussions a "fake fight".

Clare says Dutton’s push to legislate 26 January as Australia Day ‘same fake fight we have every year’​

Circling back to the education minister, Jason Clare, who had been speaking on Sunrise earlier.

He was asked about Peter Dutton’s key proposal to keep Australia Day on 26 January, and if Labor would follow suit. But Clare said “the date’s not changing” and “we have the same fake fight every year”.


The host said that Dutton wanted to put 26 January as Australia Day into law – would Labor? Clare said it was already in employment law:

Labor's position has always been, let people celebrate the way they want or don't want, giving councils the freedom to choose. Want the date to change? Join the republican movement.

 

[Cmarsh]

Canada had the red ensign (Union Jack in the corner) as the de facto flag, recognised as the flag of Canada.

Exactly the same as the Union Jack which, believe it or not, is not officially in UK law as their official national flag.

So not only do we have another nation’s flag as our national flag that flag isn’t even the official flag of that nation!

Just get rid of that crap and get an Aussie flag please

But alas, you will never get agreement on the design of a new Australian flag.

 

[Cmarsh]

Labor's position has always been, let people celebrate the way they want or don't want, giving councils the freedom to choose. Want the date to change? Join the republican movement.

Albo is a republican.

 

[aCunningPlan]

Albo is a republican.

He is.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Barely a peep about Keating and Rudd's busts in Ballarat being decapitated. The Redfern Speech and National Apology have really riled someone up this Australia Day. If this was Cook it would be front page of every paper and leading the national nightly news.

View attachment 2210496

I'm not sure what media you are consuming.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/crime/statues-of-expms-decapitated-in-ballarat-days-out-from-australia-day/news-story/613521d7c4d35d1bdd52ff7c8b56570a

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Need a new poll for national anthem.

I'd start the list with:

Hoodoo Gurus - In the middle of the land
INXS - Never tear us apart (just for the melts by almost everyone!)
Gangajang - Sounds of then
Warumpi Band - Blackfella, Whitefella (includes the reference "it doesn't matter what your colour", so even pasty potatoes are covered)

And for international sporting events like the Olympics, one option could be track 4 on side B of Skyhooks' "Guilty Until Proven Insane" LP?

Good nominations but even though the majority of national anthems are rooted in a daggy 19th century romantic sensibility, I have big issues with any attempt to modernise them.

Witness West Coast’s excruciating club song.

(I think I just have issues with people singing in public in general! Majorly cringey for me.)

 

[liz]

I thought Labor were the major party most friendly towards Aboriginal people?

Here Jason Clare comes out to say the date is not changing and calls discussions a "fake fight".

Clare says Dutton’s push to legislate 26 January as Australia Day ‘same fake fight we have every year’​

Circling back to the education minister, Jason Clare, who had been speaking on Sunrise earlier.

He was asked about Peter Dutton’s key proposal to keep Australia Day on 26 January, and if Labor would follow suit. But Clare said “the date’s not changing” and “we have the same fake fight every year”.


The host said that Dutton wanted to put 26 January as Australia Day into law – would Labor? Clare said it was already in employment law:

What in your post is inconsistent with your opening assertion?

It’s just a battle that the Labor Party has no interest in engaging in right now. With good justification.

It might take another decade or two before we’ve grown up sufficiently as a country to have a proper discussion on the topic - one where people are prepared to engage and prepared to listen.

 

[Cmarsh]

What in your post is inconsistent with your opening assertion?

It’s just a battle that the Labor Party has no interest in engaging in right now. With good justification.

It might take another decade or two before we’ve grown up sufficiently as a country to have a proper discussion on the topic - one where people are prepared to engage and prepared to listen.

Pretty sure people are engaged in discussion. Not sure what you mean by "proper" discussion. I really hope you are not confusing listening with agreeing.

 

[liz]

Pretty sure people are engaged in discussion. Not sure what you mean by "proper" discussion. I really hope you are not confusing listening with agreeing.

There is no discussion. Just shouting.

 

[Cmarsh]

There is no discussion. Just shouting.

Yeah because there is strong opinions and passion. It's just discussion but at a louder volume. Happens naturally when people disagree with one another.

 

[MPMonkeys]

Pretty sure people are engaged in discussion. Not sure what you mean by "proper" discussion. I really hope you are not confusing listening with agreeing.

I think what is meant by 'proper discussion' is that everyone agrees with her side of the argument.

 

[MPMonkeys]

There is no discussion. Just shouting.

I agree. Lets hope those protesters listen.

 

[liz]

Yeah because there is strong opinions and passion. It's just discussion but at a louder volume. Happens naturally when people disagree with one another.

Discussion - dialogue as opposed to debate - is about asking questions of the other side, looking for the detail and nuance, working out the values underlying a position and seeking areas of overlap so that compromise can be found. It's about actually wanting a solution that all (or most) can be satisfied with.

Debate - as organised in the "sport" that can be entertaining but that isn't discussion or dialogue - is about digging in, point scoring, saying the same thing over and over, and vary rarely actually changing anyone's mind.

For me, a dialogue would comprise stripping things back and asking question like:

Who are we as a nation? What are we most proud of about our nation?
What is the purpose of a National Day? Do we need one? If so, what should it look like?
What is the purpose of public holidays more generally? Are they just a day when office-based people and tradesmen get to not work (recognising that people who work in service industries generally don't get the day off but do get paid more), ways to punctuate the calendar or should they represent something more significant?

We than have some chance of finding common ground.

If you don't like those questions, formulate some of your own. But questions that can move us forwards, not keep us stuck going round and round and getting nowhere.

 

[Cmarsh]

Discussion - dialogue as opposed to debate - is about asking questions of the other side, looking for the detail and nuance, working out the values underlying a position and seeking areas of overlap so that compromise can be found. It's about actually wanting a solution that all (or most) can be satisfied with.

Debate - as organised in the "sport" that can be entertaining but that isn't discussion or dialogue - is about digging in, point scoring, saying the same thing over and over, and vary rarely actually changing anyone's mind.

For me, a dialogue would comprise stripping things back and asking question like:

Who are we as a nation? What are we most proud of about our nation?
What is the purpose of a National Day? Do we need one? If so, what should it look like?
What is the purpose of public holidays more generally? Are they just a day when office-based people and tradesmen get to not work (recognising that people who work in service industries generally don't get the day off but do get paid more), ways to punctuate the calendar or should they represent something more significant?

We than have some chance of finding common ground.

If you don't like those questions, formulate some of your own. But questions that can move us forwards, not keep us stuck going round and round and getting nowhere.

I and others have addressed all those questions throughout this thread. There are differences of opinion and some will always disagree.

 

[liz]

I and others have addressed all those questions throughout this thread. There are differences of opinion and some will always disagree.

I haven't read any answers to those questions. Humour me. Provide some answers.

Mostly of what I have heard is either:

a) most people don't care (which is the opposite of engaging in the discussion) or
b) most people don't like being told what to do by others (which I don't take as any kind of constructive position).

But my point was more about the country needing to have those discussions, collectively. Collaboratively. That is not something that is happening right now.

 

[MPMonkeys]

I haven't read any answers to those questions. Humour me. Provide some answers.

Mostly of what I have heard is either:

a) most people don't care (which is the opposite of engaging in the discussion) or
b) most people don't like being told what to do by others (which I don't take as any kind of constructive position).

But my point was more about the country needing to have those discussions, collectively. Collaboratively. That is not something that is happening right now.

You can only collaborate if all the parties agree on the final outcome and have a common goal.

 

[liz]

You can only collaborate if all the parties agree on the final outcome and have a common goal.

It’s about exploration to start with. Finding out what others actually think a final outcome looks like and whether they have a common ground. Digging underneath the rhetoric and, dare I say it, “shouting” to uncover and make explicit the assumptions and values that lie underneath.

I take from your statement that a process cannot start unless you already know the end point. Is that what you meant?

 

[MPMonkeys]

It’s about exploration to start with. Finding out what others actually think a final outcome looks like and whether they have a common ground. Digging underneath the rhetoric and, dare I say it, “shouting” to uncover and make explicit the assumptions and values that lie underneath.

I take from your statement that a process cannot start unless you already know the end point. Is that what you meant?

The problem is the final outcome is basically settled. Its Jan 26th.
Its the policy of both the Labor and LNP parties, poll after poll shows that to be the preferred date and it is the incumbent date.
The issue is some people just will not accept the answer.

 

[peetoo]

The problem is the final outcome is basically settled. Its Jan 26th.
Its the policy of both the Labor and LNP parties, poll after poll shows that to be the preferred date and it is the incumbent date.
The issue is some people just will not accept the answer.

This thread is generalist and not specifically about ‘change the date’

I see Dutton must have been asked about it by a ‘journo’ again mate, cos he’s fired up again a couple of days ago. What an absolute phoney