Jared Petrenko

[NTRabbit]

OMG, Leon Davis an unfullfilled talent! In your humble opinion! Lets not bring up that most of these players are Aboriginal and are easy targets for white bastards and white press and white commentators. Pets has played the position you are comparing for what- 10 games in his entire career?! Always back to stats, its your only arguement.
BTW You can always bet on black. BPP.

So wait... am I the racist? Or are these indigenous players only failing because whitey in the media is getting them down? I'm confused

Davis had what, 6 seasons playing beneath his capacity as a small forward, finally got his shit together and played like the genuine midfielder he had the talent to be for a whole season, then slid back into mediocrity and the VFL before being punted back to the HBF where he dined on the work of the superior Pies midfield. He got one AA, but could have been so much more.

If you want, compare first or second seasons between the players, the readout is not a whole lot different.

 

[Wood_Duck]

I am actually giving this thread the same credibility I gave Team DJ's thread (Is it too early to say I told you so?).

It is a very desperate person that after 1 game thinks they can be vindicated for months of being wrong.

 

[beartoo]

I think Petrenko could make way for Wright this week.
I think Pets has some good attributes and is a handy player to have at the AFC. He will play far more than the less than 50 Vader has him slotted in for IMO.

 

[whitey_1975]

So wait... am I the racist? Or are these indigenous players only failing because whitey in the media is getting them down? I'm confused

Davis had what, 6 seasons playing beneath his capacity as a small forward, finally got his shit together and played like the genuine midfielder he had the talent to be for a whole season, then slid back into mediocrity and the VFL before being punted back to the HBF where he dined on the work of the superior Pies midfield. He got one AA, but could have been so much more.

If you want, compare first or second seasons between the players, the readout is not a whole lot different.

Clueless. And yes I am calling you and many media people as underlyingly racist . I am going now before I threaten to kick someones head in. Do not pretend to understand the complexities I am talking about until you have walked a mile in our shoes.

 

[spenze]

Is "chasing hard" not the same as "being 2nd to the ball"? Surely he wouldn't have to "chase hard" if he'd actually worked harder in the first place to win the ball himself?

Chasing hard is when the oppoosition has the ball and is trying to work it out of their own 50. That is his job, he is not the focal point, he is not the main crumber but his job is to put pressure on and tackle when the opposition is trying to move the ball out of the 50.

I'm sure you'd agree that last year the ball rebounded out of our 50 way to easily, so far this year, not so easily...Petrenko is part of that reason

 

[Cap]

I guess the question needs to be asked.

does every player on field (regardless of how long) really need to be racking up possessions?

The efficiency issue is worth highlight however.

 

[cmndstab]

Vader - the majority of Petrenko's "chasing hard" tackles come when Petrenko leaves his man to chase after another opponent. He has lightning pace and has shown he can use it effectively for either a tackle or a smother. He is the best in our side at both of these skills.

His lack of possessions was a concern on the weekend - however, I suspect it's partially the Gold Coast factor. That is, our primary ball carriers had no problem getting the ball and our primary forwards had no problems marking it, so he wasn't really needed. I'd be really cautious about ranking our list based on the Gold Coast match.

Petrenko can indeed hurt the opposition going the other way, and some of his kicks are fantastic - it's just that he has a tendency to absolutely shank it miserably when he miskicks. It's feast or famine with Petrenko. Actually, that's true of several of our forwards

Petrenko is hardly alone in terms of doing the hard things right but struggling with the easier stuff. Dangerfield comes to mind. However, he's well worth persisting with. As a small defender he's shown the ability to win a decent amount of ball. As a small forward he's shown the ability to create a huge amount of pressure.

I'd say you're absolutely wrong about him being lazy, far from it - it's his workrate that's enabled him to play AFL footy at all. His fitness was a drawcard when he was selected all the way back in 2007 if my memory serves. He's one of those players, like Sloane, like Dangerfield, like Thompson, who keeps buttering up time and time again despite giving it absolutely everything in the previous contest. Of all the things you could say about Petrenko, lazy is probably right at the very bottom of the list. As for him "trying to be flashy", that's part of his role as a small forward, which is not where I'd play him personally.

FWIW, I agree that Kerridge would likely have been at least as effective on the weekend.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

[QUOTE=NTRabbit;23744657]Not really no. He had little of the ball, and little in the way of impact on the game, the checkside into the goalsquare notwithstanding. Otten was clearly worst on deck


17 disposals, 94% efficiency... Clearly worst on ground

 

[Truck Rutten]

Walker dominated...damn,
Callinan was excellent save for some narrow misses on goal...bugger,
Henderson got stretchered off...can't abuse him,
Tambling played SANFL...not televised in Canberra,
Petrenko didn't have that much of the ball...DING DING DING we have a winner.

You forgot about Bernard

 

[Freddy Bassett]

OMG, Leon Davis an unfullfilled talent! In your humble opinion! Lets not bring up that most of these players are Aboriginal and are easy targets for white bastards and white press and white commentators. Pets has played the position you are comparing for what- 10 games in his entire career?! Always back to stats, its your only arguement.
BTW You can always bet on black. BPP.

Um, who are you calling racist? If we uttered thoses words towards an Indigenous person we would be red carded... Pull your head in..
Rendell lost his job for less than that

 

[Wood_Duck]

Um, who are you calling racist? If we uttered thoses words towards an Indigenous person we would be red carded... Pull your head in..
Rendell lost his job for less than that

This is where I get confused. If Whitey is white, then is calling us 'white bastards' racist? Does he need to be indigenous for this phrase to be deemed racist?

 

[ruscy002]

Still not gonna make it to 50 games Vader?

 

[mrmatt]

It's a good point. Vader says Petrenko got a "paltry" 13 disposals so I had a bit of a look at some players playing in similar roles.

Betts highest possession average in a season is 13.8 and he started off the season with 12.

garlett's highest possession average in a season is 12.2 (Had 11 in round 1)

Milne averaged 15.1 in 2010 but every other season he has played he has averaged 13.9 or less and he is considered by some as the best small forward of all time.

^ This.

To bring stats into the equation to justify a point of view and not make them relative to position on the field is not telling the full picture. I think the Carlton forwards are an excellent example of what the club want out of Pets up forward.

Carlton collectively put an immense amount of forward line pressure on the Tigers last week as they tried to clear defence. The Tigers fumbled, panicked and inevitably turned the ball over. It was a massive advantage for the Blues and a big part of the reason they won the game... and will win many more. Including finals.

The forward line work as a team in this regard and reap the rewards as a team... that's how they would think of it. Why is a goal assist any less valuable than a goal in a team oriented game?

Petrenko's numbers stack up to Garlett and Betts in R1 in terms of total disposals and the goals that were generated from his play (G + GA), total disposals and tackles. Betts: 13D, 0T 2G, 2GAs (also 4 Frees against), Garlett: 11D, 4T, 1G, 3GA, Petrenko: 13D, 4T, 0G, 3GAs.

Small forward is one of the hardest positions on the ground in terms of having impact and staying involved in the play. I see the NAB GF game as a very important one - blighted by those behinds. But 7 tackles, 2 1%ers (smothers, IIRC) and a goal is a long way from a disappointing game in that position. Those forward pressure acts are inspiring.

Also suggesting his tackle count is reflective of getting to the ball second I believe is a slightly naive way of viewing it. He is not the key marking target up there, his job is to come into play when the ball hits ground level (unless he finds space to mark on his own). At this point the forwards are usually out-numbered by defenders. This is why it is a tough position to play - and this is why tackles are so crucial (across those 2 games he is 3rd for tackles for the Crows behind Sloane and Thommo, by the way). I think to be a balanced observer and commentator on the game you should watch how small forwards at other clubs operate and set expectations accordingly to how the game is played in that part of the ground.

The Crows collective forward and midfield pressure was outstanding in the Gold Coast game - particularly early. The game was effectively done and dusted by quarter time. We had overwhelmed them with constant pressure. He was a contributor to that - whether it counts on the stat sheet or not. His hustle and relentless chasing and strong tackling are a massive feature of his game.

When he was played in more stat friendly roles last year he delivered but that's not what the club need from him... they want his pressure and creativity near the goals.

Citing his highest goal average in a season compared to Betts or Garlett also seems all but irrelevant to me too, given Pets hasn't played a complete season there and he is a vastly improved player for the kids that was thrown up there a couple of years back.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

This is where I get confused. If Whitey is white, then is calling us 'white bastards' racist? Does he need to be indigenous for this phrase to be deemed racist?

I wont answer that question from fear of being labelled a racist.

 

[hellboy1975]

Petrenko was excellent late last year I though, but sure has had a slow start to 2012. He'll be safe for this week I'd say, but with a full list available for selection he'd better perform, or I expect he'll be out for round 3...

As to whether he'll be a good long term player, my gut says yes, but the jury is definitely still out!

 

[whitey_1975]

I wont answer that question from fear of being labelled a racist.

Actually Bass, I am white (no one suspects I have Aboriginal heritage) and perhaps you should go to the main board and see what i wrote about Rendell from my own experiences. Apologies if I came across as needing to pull my head in, I find it hard to say what I mean without getting hot headed. It is amazing how much racist stuff I hear from people who do not suspect I have Aboriginal heritage, and how they appear to change towards me when they hear I am! Aboriginals are not perfect as a group of human beings, being white has taught me that from an early age, however my acceptance by my mob now (compared to my youth) and our dismay at how underlyingly racist people still are, makes me and others easily angry.(and then I came across as aggressive and lose the sense of what i am trying to say)Hope this clears that up I hate explaining this but felt it was necessary.

 

[Vader]

Chasing hard is when the oppoosition has the ball and is trying to work it out of their own 50. That is his job, he is not the focal point, he is not the main crumber but his job is to put pressure on and tackle when the opposition is trying to move the ball out of the 50.

I'm sure you'd agree that last year the ball rebounded out of our 50 way to easily, so far this year, not so easily...Petrenko is part of that reason

I do agree that they're doing a much better job of locking the ball in our F50. I'm not sure how much credit Petrenko can take for that though - our ability to pressure the ball carrier has improved across the field, with all 22 players contributing significantly.

Still not gonna make it to 50 games Vader?

He probably will. He wouldn't have played 20 if I was an AFC selector, but I'm not.. and he continues to get selected against my better judgement.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Actually Bass, I am white (no one suspects I have Aboriginal heritage) and perhaps you should go to the main board and see what i wrote about Rendell from my own experiences. Apologies if I came across as needing to pull my head in, I find it hard to say what I mean without getting hot headed. It is amazing how much racist stuff I hear from people who do not suspect I have Aboriginal heritage, and how they appear to change towards me when they hear I am! Aboriginals are not perfect as a group of human beings, being white has taught me that from an early age, however my acceptance by my mob now (compared to my youth) and our dismay at how underlyingly racist people still are, makes me and others easily angry.(and then I came across as aggressive and lose the sense of what i am trying to say)Hope this clears that up I hate explaining this but felt it was necessary.

No problems mate Nothing wrong with being hot headed or aggressive but do it without the racist remarks. And for the record, I did agree with everything else you said

 

[whitey_1975]

No problems mate Nothing wrong with being hot headed or aggressive but do it without the racist remarks. And for the record, I did agree with everything else you said

Appreciated.

 

[ruscy002]

I do agree that they're doing a much better job of locking the ball in our F50. I'm not sure how much credit Petrenko can take for that though - our ability to pressure the ball carrier has improved across the field, with all 22 players contributing significantly.

He probably will. He wouldn't have played 20 if I was an AFC selector, but I'm not.. and he continues to get selected against my better judgement.

Yes...and I see that Mick Doughty has escaped your ire after an equally (if not more) underwhelming preseason and opening game (Champion Data have Dogga a mere three points up on Petrenko).

I guess they're in the the exact same place in the pecking order huh?

 

[AdelaideFan14]

I do agree that they're doing a much better job of locking the ball in our F50. I'm not sure how much credit Petrenko can take for that though - our ability to pressure the ball carrier has improved across the field, with all 22 players contributing significantly.

He probably will. He wouldn't have played 20 if I was an AFC selector, but I'm not.. and he continues to get selected against my better judgement.

Thankfully.

Using statistics isn't the best approach if you are trying to convert people to the dark side (as in against Petrenko) as statistics can be used to prove almost anything - as shown in previous posts. If someone who's whipping boy is Doughty or Douglas (For the record, I am not against either of them being in the team-Just used for example) made a thread trying to suggest reasons why they shouldn't be in the team (seen many posts on the issue), how would you respond to them? I would get the feeling the threads on those players position in the team would get locked.

 

[bjn1960]

Walker was very, very good. I'd rate that as the best game of his AFL career. If he keeps up that standard then he'll have an awful lot of supporters (including me) getting off his back by the end of the season.
Callinan turned me into a convert in the MMC. It's been a while since you've seen anything negative about him from me.
Henderson was playing quite well before getting stretchered off. He still has areas of his game which need attention, but you expect that from a basketball convert who is playing a new position.
Tambling can stink up the SANFL all season long for all I care.
Thus we come to Petrenko - the board's favourite darling who seems to be contributing very little. What's wrong with questioning a player who isn't performing?

In case it missed your attention, I had Petrenko amongst the 17 "definites" all pre-season and I named him in the team I expected to play in R1. I also expect him to play in R2, despite being more than slightly underwhelming thus far this year. I'm not pretending to know better than the AFL selectors.

What I'm trying to do is challenge all the Petrenko fans on here (and there are plenty of them) to justify his abysmal start to the season. His poor MMC GF performance was partially justified by the way he blanketed Hurn. I've yet to hear of any redeeming features to his R1 performance.

If he has a 20+ disposal game, with 80%+ disposal efficiency, then he'll go a long way towards getting me off his back (at least in the short term).

Is "chasing hard" not the same as "being 2nd to the ball"? Surely he wouldn't have to "chase hard" if he'd actually worked harder in the first place to win the ball himself?

Thank-you for adding absolutely nothing to the discussion.

So far I've seen lots of people wanting to play the man, while completely ignoring the ball (srv23, whitey_1975, Wood_Duck). Abusing me, while completely avoiding the topic being discussed, is beneath contempt. If you don't actually have anything to add to the conversation, then just go away and leave it to the adults.

I'm still waiting for any of Petrenko's fans to come out and tell me what it is that he has to offer. I have no doubt that the selectors will name him this week, with Henderson the only likely omission.. but why should they do so if his form continues to stink?

Come on folks.. play the ball. Pick up the challenge. I don't rate him, but lots of you do.. so justify your position.

Is this a comment that really encourages balance public debate? No.

Your chiding of others, playing the man and not the ball, is undermined by such churlishness, especially from a moderator.

 

[mrmatt]

I do agree that they're doing a much better job of locking the ball in our F50. I'm not sure how much credit Petrenko can take for that though - our ability to pressure the ball carrier has improved across the field, with all 22 players contributing significantly.

As stated in my post above, Petrenko has the third most tackles for the team in the two games you're citing (behind Sloane and Thommo) - the most tackles for any forward. I think Pets can take some credit for that.

 

[macca23]

Yes...and I see that Mick Doughty has escaped your ire after an equally (if not more) underwhelming preseason and opening game (Champion Data have Dogga a mere three points up on Petrenko).

I guess they're in the the exact same place in the pecking order huh?

Not really.

Doughty has performed well at this level for a very long time and has credits in the bank.

Petrenko is trying to build a career, and as such is judged purely on current performances - no credits in the bank there.

Having said that, no-one is immune from poor performance. While Doughty's game was not a stand-out, it also doesn't stick out in my mind as being one that demands him being dropped. However, there probably will be times as the season progresses that he might well be replaced by a younger faster defender on the way up.

Back to Petrenko. He's nowhere near as bad as Vader suggests, nor is he as good as some have given him credit for.

However, he has been rather quiet in the last 2 weeks

His problem is that there are plenty of alternatives to him for his spot, so he does have to perform while at the same time trying to establish himself safely in the best 22.

IMO he shows that he has the assets to do so - pace, courage, athleticism, fierce tackling etc. But having them, and using them to the max are 2 different things. We rarely see them all on display at the levels we would like them to be.

IMO he won't be dropped this week, as I'm sure the club would also like to see all his promise delivered as it could and should be and to do that he has to play. I think Sando will give him a goodly chance to do just that, but it has to be at a higher level than the past 2 weeks or he will eventually be replaced by Wright, Jaensch or Kerridge.

I hope he makes it because IMO he has the tools to do so.

 

[ruscy002]

Not really.

Doughty has performed well at this level for a very long time and has credits in the bank.

Petrenko is trying to build a career, and as such is judged purely on current performances - no credits in the bank there.

I was being a tad facetious there. Having said that, credit in the bank means diddly squat when you've got a new coach and 40 fit players to choose from. Performance is king.

Agree with most of your post though.