Toast Jarrod Witts

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Can't believe people are lamenting his around the ground work when he out-dueled the 2015 AA ruckman in the hitouts, an area that has been our greatest weakness for a decade. F' me. We should be celebrating the amazing clearances he gave our mids through great tap work against the best ruckman in the competition. Yes, he had a poor day around the ground even by his standards but I'll take that hit if he gives us that output aerially each week.

People also forget that Sandi couldn't take mark, let alone a contested mark, for the first 6 or 7 years of his career. It was a constant bagging point for commentators. Yet now, history will laud him as one of the great ruckman of our game. Sandi has also never laid more than an average of 2, yes 2, tackles per game over his career. In fact his average is only 1.2 across his whole career - what is Witts'? Yep, go have a look and tell me that's not going to get even better as we go... What about the fact that Mumford only takes an average of 2.3 marks per game? Why aren't commentators crunching him for that? Witts' avg is 2.2 in limited time on the ball, in the ruck....

My point is, we have a real gem on our hands with Witts and he has the capability of becoming Mumford mk II with better HO potential. It will be up to him as to whether he realises this potential but he is certainly tracking in the right direction. Be very happy with his game on the weekend and look forward to better yet...
 
The Sherriff said:
Yeah he was feeding Swannie like a mumma bird with a worm in Q3. Witta's always been a lumbering type, I can't see him getting to be more mobile for another 2-3 years with a body like his. Happy for him to take throw-ins and run defensively, or just to park his arse in goalsquare until then. Let Grundy be the wildebeest.
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He just needs to clunk a few marks. Overall though he is developing very well.
 
Trojan Pies said:
Can't believe people are lamenting his around the ground work when he out-dueled the 2015 AA ruckman in the hitouts, an area that has been our greatest weakness for a decade. F' me. We should be celebrating the amazing clearances he gave our mids through great tap work against the best ruckman in the competition. Yes, he had a poor day around the ground even by his standards but I'll take that hit if he gives us that output aerially each week.

People also forget that Sandi couldn't take mark, let alone a contested mark, for the first 6 or 7 years of his career. It was a constant bagging point for commentators. Yet now, history will laud him as one of the great ruckman of our game. Sandi has also never laid more than an average of 2, yes 2, tackles per game over his career. In fact his average is only 1.2 across his whole career - what is Witts'? Yep, go have a look and tell me that's not going to get even better as we go... What about the fact that Mumford only takes an average of 2.3 marks per game? Why aren't commentators crunching him for that? Witts' avg is 2.2 in limited time on the ball, in the ruck....

My point is, we have a real gem on our hands with Witts and he has the capability of becoming Mumford mk II with better HO potential. It will be up to him as to whether he realises this potential but he is certainly tracking in the right direction. Be very happy with his game on the weekend and look forward to better yet...
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Witts was Fantastic in the Ruck but his around the Ground work is a Real Weakness
 

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My biggest fault on his game is that he goes to ground too easily.
It doesn't look like lack of strength either.... It honestly just looks like it's cognitive behavior.
 
Trojan Pies said:
Can't believe people are lamenting his around the ground work when he out-dueled the 2015 AA ruckman in the hitouts, an area that has been our greatest weakness for a decade. F' me. We should be celebrating the amazing clearances he gave our mids through great tap work against the best ruckman in the competition. Yes, he had a poor day around the ground even by his standards but I'll take that hit if he gives us that output aerially each week.

People also forget that Sandi couldn't take mark, let alone a contested mark, for the first 6 or 7 years of his career. It was a constant bagging point for commentators. Yet now, history will laud him as one of the great ruckman of our game. Sandi has also never laid more than an average of 2, yes 2, tackles per game over his career. In fact his average is only 1.2 across his whole career - what is Witts'? Yep, go have a look and tell me that's not going to get even better as we go... What about the fact that Mumford only takes an average of 2.3 marks per game? Why aren't commentators crunching him for that? Witts' avg is 2.2 in limited time on the ball, in the ruck....

My point is, we have a real gem on our hands with Witts and he has the capability of becoming Mumford mk II with better HO potential. It will be up to him as to whether he realises this potential but he is certainly tracking in the right direction. Be very happy with his game on the weekend and look forward to better yet...
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If we trade him out, as some are proposing, we may find it comes to bite us on the bum, like Mummy leaving Geelong. They certainly let the wrong ruck go.
 
TradeDraft said:
Witts was Fantastic in the Ruck but his around the Ground work is a Real Weakness
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Well it wasn't his best game around the ground Dave and it's an area both he and Grundy need to improve. They're both showing they can do it, just need to keep building consistency while they develop through the core and learn all the old ruckman tricks.
 
When looking at Witts' potential down the track 3 rucks worth considering are Warnock, Mumford and Sandilands. Worst case if Witts doesn't develop much further he's capable of a Warnock like output, with work on his current weaknesses, the main ones I see are a lack of core strength and confidence he could end up somewhere between Mumford and Sandilands.
 
1892 said:
When looking at Witts' potential down the track 3 rucks worth considering are Warnock, Mumford and Sandilands. Worst case if Witts doesn't develop much further he's capable of a Warnock like output, with work on his current weaknesses, the main ones I see are a lack of core strength and confidence he could end up somewhere between Mumford and Sandilands.
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He's already way beyond Warnock. I did a comparison last year when some lolton supporter was bagging Witts, and the outcome did not favour Warnock in the slightest...
 
May sound like I am making excuses, but Witts had a pretty good year marking last year and I was wondering whether if he hasn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery or doesn't have confidence in going for marks because of surgery?
Took 57 marks from 20 games, this year 11 from 5 games.
 
Maggie5 said:
May sound like I am making excuses, but Witts had a pretty good year marking last year and I was wondering whether if he hasn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery or doesn't have confidence in going for marks because of surgery?
Took 57 marks from 20 games, this year 11 from 5 games.
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That was Last Year.

Shoulder Surgery might not help but it would not be the Entire Reason
 
TradeDraft said:
Witts was Fantastic in the Ruck but his around the Ground work is a Real Weakness
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I was ecstatic with Witts performance, pre game he was expected to get a hiding from Mumford. He didn't have a influence around he ground but neither did mummy compared to his output so far this year. All I was hoping was a break even at best and he did that as a minimum.
Give it another 30-40 games from Witts and we will see a big improvement on his around the ground influence!!
 
Maggie5 said:
May sound like I am making excuses, but Witts had a pretty good year marking last year and I was wondering whether if he hasn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery or doesn't have confidence in going for marks because of surgery?
Took 57 marks from 20 games, this year 11 from 5 games.
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That's a very, very good point.
No matter the surgery, it does take time to recover. And making sure the scar tissue doesn't hamper your movement is the greatest hurdle.
 

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Soaring Magpie said:
I was ecstatic with Witts performance, pre game he was expected to get a hiding from Mumford. He didn't have a influence around he ground but neither did mummy compared to his output so far this year. All I was hoping was a break even at best and he did that as a minimum.
Give it another 30-40 games from Witts and we will see a big improvement on his around the ground influence!!
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Could you Imagine both Witts and Grundy out there in there Prime:D
 
Maggie5 said:
May sound like I am making excuses, but Witts had a pretty good year marking last year and I was wondering whether if he hasn't fully recovered from shoulder surgery or doesn't have confidence in going for marks because of surgery?
Took 57 marks from 20 games, this year 11 from 5 games.
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I think the main reason is he is still weak in the core and legs, relative to his huge size and high centre of gravity. Meaning it's easy to bump him off his axis in a marking contest, and he loses balance which makes marking extremely hard.

He does need to add contested marking to his game if he wants to become a high quality ruckmen because he doesn't have the ground level ability of a Mumford or Natanui
 
Apex36 said:
He's already way beyond Warnock. I did a comparison last year when some lolton supporter was bagging Witts, and the outcome did not favour Warnock in the slightest...
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Didn't check the stats before posting, they just seem comparable in their current output especially marking under a high ball with neither overly great when put under pressure or bodied. On a career comparison they should be a world apart, but on checking there's not a lot in it, which says more about Warnock than Witts. Witts averages 1 more mark and tackle per game, Warnock 7 more hit outs per game.
 
1892 said:
Didn't check the stats before posting, they just seem comparable in their current output especially marking under a high ball with neither overly great when put under pressure or bodied. On a career comparison they should be a world apart, but on checking there's not a lot in it, which says more about Warnock than Witts. Witts averages 1 more mark and tackle per game, Warnock 7 more hit outs per game.
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I stand by my assesment. Especially given their relative ages. As far as rucks in their prime go, Warnock is useless.
 
Kappa said:
I think the main reason is he is still weak in the core and legs, relative to his huge size and high centre of gravity. Meaning it's easy to bump him off his axis in a marking contest, and he loses balance which makes marking extremely hard.

He does need to add contested marking to his game if he wants to become a high quality ruckmen because he doesn't have the ground level ability of a Mumford or Natanui
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The thing is though he was marking and good below the knee last year. H\Even his tackling is a bit off.
 
Apex36 said:
I stand by my assesment. Especially given their relative ages. As far as rucks in their prime go, Warnock is useless.
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Get what you're saying and think we're comparing different things. You're looking at potential for higher output, whereas my initial post was a what if worst case assessment, what Witts' floor would be if he didn't improve.
 
So Witts vs Sandilands it is then, with Grundy almost certainly not being available once again.

In a strange way this might become a positive for both players, Wittsy was struggling in the VFL before his recall but last week was his high point so far this season.

That's what I love about both our 22 and 21 year old ruckmen though, they actually lift for the occasion.

If the sub rule gets the flick and the interchange rotations come down, 2 rucks may well become something of a norm for AFL clubs, and we'll have 2 of the best young rucks with plenty of games under their belt.
 
TradeDraft said:
Witts was Fantastic in the Ruck but his around the Ground work is a Real Weakness
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I thought he took a good step forward against GWS and really covered the ground well. Got to the right places but just didn't own it when he got there. Considering he hasn't been in the seniors for long this year he is definitely working harder and did a sensational job on Mummy.
I hope there is room for both our boys but my opinion differs from you TD. I think there is more upside to Witts. I know Grundy shows signs of brilliance but he is very slow and way undersized ATM. He reminds me a lot of Fraser. Lots of talent but not sure if his body will ever bulk up.
I would like to see Grundy jump more in the center. For some reason he always stays down and gets pushed off the ball way to easily.

Time will tell but I don't think we can trade any of these guys. Lets hope we are both correct and we end up with a superior combo to that of Cox/Natanogoals.
 
I'm really glad that Witts has responded in kind to the reality check he has been served, he has been challenged and has stepped up.

The challenge I'm referring to is the arrival of The Big Show competing for the spot of my favourite Collingwood player.

Keep it up Wittsy! Love your work.
 
Maggie5 said:
Going to make a cup of coffe and sit down calmly now that I know the result and watch the game objectively today.
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Would appreciate your updated thoughts on Witts' performance. I'm in the camp that thought he held his own on Sunday. The poor marking may have skewed the view of many, regarding his overall performance.
 
Piestration said:
I thought he took a good step forward against GWS and really covered the ground well. Got to the right places but just didn't own it when he got there. Considering he hasn't been in the seniors for long this year he is definitely working harder and did a sensational job on Mummy.
I hope there is room for both our boys but my opinion differs from you TD. I think there is more upside to Witts. I know Grundy shows signs of brilliance but he is very slow and way undersized ATM. He reminds me a lot of Fraser. Lots of talent but not sure if his body will ever bulk up.
I would like to see Grundy jump more in the center. For some reason he always stays down and gets pushed off the ball way to easily.

Time will tell but I don't think we can trade any of these guys. Lets hope we are both correct and we end up with a superior combo to that of Cox/Natanogoals.
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Grundy Slowo_O What do you mean? He Moves lot better then Witts who moves like the Titanic around the Ground.

Grundy is 21 so like most Ruckman he is bit undersized but that will get better over more Pre-Seasons.

Grundy is Already Bigger the Fraser and Lot Tougher.
 

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Toast Jarrod Witts

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