JLT 2018

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Game reinforced my greatest fears going into this season. We STILL (11 years after Judd walked) have a shit midfield lacking grunt, class and general footballing skills. Our promising forward line can't yet overcome hail-Mary entries without the best FF in the league on the end of them. Footy played primarily on our halfbackline.
 
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I had another look at the first half, our clearances didn't seem to be the major problem, especially considering Sandilands was always going to be all over Lycett and they were watching for Fyfe. The big problem was the marking and the link up ball through the corridor. We lost the marks 121 to 80, and they had 98 more uncontested possessions, so once they were out, they were off and it was too late. So it's not unfixable I think and it makes me think it was more of an off-day thing, to some degree anyway.

Points I'd make - Kick to targets across half forward. Too much bombing, not enough just taking simple options. I don't know if I'm oversimplifying it, but I swear they don't kick to Darling enough, especially with JK out of the side. We know he drops the odd one, but he's a good lead-out target. Once the ball's there, we've got Jetta, Ryan, Shuey, Venables, etc to run through. For this point, maybe Brander will be a better bet than Waterman for round 1.

Mids need to contest marking more - guys like Sheed, Hutch need to really push and contest around-the-ground marking contests against their opposition mids, at least put them under pressure, otherwise it rebounds out from the opposition's half back, and then it's straight into their forward line. For reference, Lachie Neale had more marks than all but 3 of our players. Wtf.

Apart from that, our skills were exceptionally rubbish, I think it was just one of those days/getting back into it for some of the players. Shuey won't/shouldn't have a game like that again this year. Add into that their work ethic was probably a bit off, it was hot plus and it was just a pre-season game, so all that has a bit of a snowball effect that you don't have the players providing the extra option/ coverage. So after all that, I don't think it's as doomsday as it felt after the game, but obviously will want to keep an eye on it. At the very least, it gives Simmo a good videotape to yell at them with at the Monday meeting.
 
Pretty much all my fears concerning our midfield were realised in 1 quarter of football.

The bright side is that everyone was horrible, so hopefully it's not a structural thing. Better to play this game now, than in 2 weeks.
 
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Turky said:
Key word here, "JLT"
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One question that needs to be answered is, did they show up to win? If not then I can understand it. If they used this match to just muck around and try some things then sure, but I don't think thats the case. They went into the game as if it was a regular season match and they failed miserably (we went in with our strongest available team). That should be cause for concern. The question now is can Simmo get the boys up for round one? I'm not sure, I think our midfield is second rate and will be under the pump the whole year. And with an in-experienced forward line for the first few round expect limited supply and low scores.
 
I went to my first game in about 6 years I'd guess. Will probably be the last one I see before going back to Korea in July so urgh, it had to be that one.

Only positive were the seats. Amazing seats right next to the race and behind the interchange. Oh and I was back home by 7pm.
 
ChampRevesby said:
One question that needs to be answered is, did they show up to win? If not then I can understand it. If they used this match to just muck around and try some things then sure, but I don't think thats the case. They went into the game as if it was a regular season match and they failed miserably (we went in with our strongest available team). That should be cause for concern. The question now is can Simmo get the boys up for round one? I'm not sure, I think our midfield is second rate and will be under the pump the whole year. And with an in-experienced forward line for the first few round expect limited supply and low scores.
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If the pre-game attitude was anything other than "let's get a few km's in the legs and not get hurt" we failed miserably. We played a paper strong team but the positions players spent a lot of time in were sub-optimal. You would have thought individual pride would have inspired more fight than what we showed...so it is a big worry.

Sandi is a troublesome match-up but other than him and Gawn we should get a lot more opportunity from the taps. Our mids definitely need the ruck to break even at worst or it will result in some very long days at the office. We just seem to be incapable of congesting things when the play is running against us. The better sides are really good at just turning the game into a bit of a shit mixer when the opposition get going and breaking up the momentum. We just spiral into a massive hole.
 
Yep pre season game only, but aren't they used for trying new game plans.

What i saw yesterday was the same old crap we saw last year, kicking long to a contest and hoping someone would take a grab out of the back line. The so called web was again burnt, Freo had numerous players behind our defense and as has become the norm, teams streamed through the middle with zero pressure, making it near on impossible for our defenders to stop the tide. And the delivery forward has not changed at all.

Losing pre season is fine if you can see them working on something new and different, from what i saw that was not the case, i saw the exact same game plan from last year that was exposed by the good sides. I never had us in for the 8 this year, we got lucky last year with Melbourne choking, didn't see anything yesterday or any of the pre season that has changed my mind, i'm happy for everyone to say i told you so at the end of the year if we make the 8, i just don't see it.
 
I went to the game and these were my thoughts:

- Players looked cooked before they went on to play. During the warm up they looked like they couldn't be bothered. They had a main training session not long after the EP game so not surprised.

- I noticed players like Shuey, Darling, Gaff, Yeo, Sheed, Lecra, Darling, Redden & Hurn were just cruising and not trying to get injured.

- I was impressed with Ryan who could have had three goals if a few of his marks stuck. What impressed me was him pressing up the ground to apply pressure and not just cruise in the forward line. Then there was his crunching tackle. He plays round 1 for me.

- Waterman i thought played well even if it was 11 disposals and 1 goal. The supply was almost non existent and he worked well for his possessions. Plays round 1 for me too.

- Venables: Showed his skills and wares but looks way to unfit for me. Do we play him round 1? Long term we need a player of his ilk in ASAP but not sure having him waste away in the forward line is the answer. I think i would play him round 1-2 in the WAFL as a mid and let him rack up some ball and get some confidence.

- Lycett: Looks fit and was one of the players out there trying. Did well considering sandi is dominant through is height. But like how he worked well around the ground. Primed for a big year IF he stays fit.

- Cole: Tough little bugger and looks good out there considering how much of the ball was coming int o the backline.

If those players i mentioned that were cruising around were playing to way we know they can i bet we would have won. We still have some issues for the forward line but once JK is back we will be better off.
 
Magnum27 said:
Yep pre season game only, but aren't they used for trying new game plans.

What i saw yesterday was the same old crap we saw last year, kicking long to a contest and hoping someone would take a grab out of the back line. The so called web was again burnt, Freo had numerous players behind our defense and as has become the norm, teams streamed through the middle with zero pressure, making it near on impossible for our defenders to stop the tide. And the delivery forward has not changed at all.

Losing pre season is fine if you can see them working on something new and different, from what i saw that was not the case, i saw the exact same game plan from last year that was exposed by the good sides. I never had us in for the 8 this year, we got lucky last year with Melbourne choking, didn't see anything yesterday or any of the pre season that has changed my mind, i'm happy for everyone to say i told you so at the end of the year if we make the 8, i just don't see it.
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I said the exact same thing yesterday. I don't care if we win or lose as long as there's an effort. There was nothing. Looked like the exact same team from 2016 and parts of 2017. Yet people are still defending it saying it's only a pre season game. The opening five or so minutes of the second quarter WE DIDN'T EVEN TOUCH THE BALL. How is this type of crap even defendable?
 

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Chris_6678 said:
I went to the game and these were my thoughts:

- Players looked cooked before they went on to play. During the warm up they looked like they couldn't be bothered. They had a main training session not long after the EP game so not surprised.

- I noticed players like Shuey, Darling, Gaff, Yeo, Sheed, Lecra, Darling, Redden & Hurn were just cruising and not trying to get injured.

- I was impressed with Ryan who could have had three goals if a few of his marks stuck. What impressed me was him pressing up the ground to apply pressure and not just cruise in the forward line. Then there was his crunching tackle. He plays round 1 for me.

- Waterman i thought played well even if it was 11 disposals and 1 goal. The supply was almost non existent and he worked well for his possessions. Plays round 1 for me too.

- Venables: Showed his skills and wares but looks way to unfit for me. Do we play him round 1? Long term we need a player of his ilk in ASAP but not sure having him waste away in the forward line is the answer. I think i would play him round 1-2 in the WAFL as a mid and let him rack up some ball and get some confidence.

- Lycett: Looks fit and was one of the players out there trying. Did well considering sandi is dominant through is height. But like how he worked well around the ground. Primed for a big year IF he stays fit.

- Cole: Tough little bugger and looks good out there considering how much of the ball was coming int o the backline.

If those players i mentioned that were cruising around were playing to way we know they can i bet we would have won. We still have some issues for the forward line but once JK is back we will be better off.
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For experienced players JLT can = training run
 
Godfather32 said:
It's not surprising that none of these guys are really ball-magnets now, none of them were really accumulators in juniors either. We seem to have an aversion to drafting pure midfielders who can find the ball.
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Bingo.

We recruit players that we “THINK” we can develop into full time midfielders.
I call them the hybrid midfielders.
It’s a flawed and unbalanced implementation of how we should have gone about recruiting our midfield.

Duggan and Venables were never pure mids in the TAC cup competition.
Duggan played off a HBF and DV was a HFF , sure there both were given runs through the midfield but it was part of the rotations and neither players primary role was midfield duties. ( Side note both are very talented players .... just not pure mids )

Case in point in the recent draft we passed on a pure midfielder in Charlie Constable his last two JTL games for Gellong have seen him rack up 22 and 18 possessions. He is now honing his midfield craft NOT learning how to play it.
We for some #%*^ reason don’t draft natural ballhawkes .... cue my weekly Bailey Banfield reminder.

It’s part of why I don’t rate or have any confidence in our recruiting team as far as midfielders go.
They go players with potentially positional versatility over players who are capable of playing pure midfield roles. ( Yet most weeks we are beaten at stoppages, in clearances and in contested possessions.
Hard to get forward supply and entry if you don’t have the ball.)

These decisions are exasperated by the fact we just don’t develop player well period. Therefore the recruiting teams choices are not supported by adequate player development. The frustrating thing is that the pattern just keeps being repeated in successive years.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difffernt result.”

Yet we keep doing it . :shrug:
 
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Monocle said:
Bingo.

We recruit players that we “THINK” we can develop into full time midfielders.
I call them the hybrid midfielders.
It’s a flawed and unbalanced implementation of how we should have gone about recruiting our midfield.

Duggan and Venables were never pure mids in the TAC cup competition.
Duggan played off a HBF and DV was a HFF , sure there both were given runs through the midfield but it was part of the rotations and neither players primary role was midfield duties. ( Side note both are very talented players .... just not pure mids )

Case in point in the recent draft we passed on a pure midfielder in Charlie Constable his last two JTL games for Gellong have seen him rack up 22 and 18 possessions. He is now honing his midfield craft NOT learning how to play it.
We for some #%*^ reason don’t draft natural ballhawkes .... cue my weekly Bailey Banfield reminder.

It’s part of why I don’t rate or have any confidence in our recruiting team as far as midfielders go.
They go players with potentially positional versatility over players who are capable of playing pure midfield roles. ( Yet most weeks we are beaten at stoppages, in clearances and in contested possessions.
Hard to get forward supply and entry if you don’t have the ball.)

These decisions are exasperated by the fact we just don’t develop player well period. Therefore the recruiting teams choices are not supported by adequate player development. The frustrating thing is that the pattern just keeps being repeated in successive years.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difffernt result.”

Yet we keep doing it . :shrug:
Click to expand...
Agreed we havent drafted a genuine mid for more than a decade. As someone mentioned before since Judd left it should have been a priority.
 
Monocle said:
Bingo.

We recruit players that we “THINK” we can develop into full time midfielders.
I call them the hybrid midfielders.
It’s a flawed and unbalanced implementation of how we should have gone about recruiting our midfield.

Duggan and Venables were never pure mids in the TAC cup competition.
Duggan played off a HBF and DV was a HFF , sure there both were given runs through the midfield but it was part of the rotations and neither players primary role was midfield duties. ( Side note both are very talented players .... just not pure mids )

Case in point in the recent draft we passed on a pure midfielder in Charlie Constable his last two JTL games for Gellong have seen him rack up 22 and 18 possessions. He is now honing his midfield craft NOT learning how to play it.
We for some #%*^ reason don’t draft natural ballhawkes .... cue my weekly Bailey Banfield reminder.

It’s part of why I don’t rate or have any confidence in our recruiting team as far as midfielders go.
They go players with potentially positional versatility over players who are capable of playing pure midfield roles. ( Yet most weeks we are beaten at stoppages, in clearances and in contested possessions.
Hard to get forward supply and entry if you don’t have the ball.)

These decisions are exasperated by the fact we just don’t develop player well period. Therefore the recruiting teams choices are not supported by adequate player development. The frustrating thing is that the pattern just keeps being repeated in successive years.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difffernt result.”

Yet we keep doing it . :shrug:
Click to expand...

Can't agree more with this,it would be nice to see us land a really good midfielder through FA in the next year or two as otherwise with our recruitment/development it doesn't seem it will happen.
 
Monocle said:
Bingo.

We recruit players that we “THINK” we can develop into full time midfielders.
I call them the hybrid midfielders.
It’s a flawed and unbalanced implementation of how we should have gone about recruiting our midfield.

Duggan and Venables were never pure mids in the TAC cup competition.
Duggan played off a HBF and DV was a HFF , sure there both were given runs through the midfield but it was part of the rotations and neither players primary role was midfield duties. ( Side note both are very talented players .... just not pure mids )

Case in point in the recent draft we passed on a pure midfielder in Charlie Constable his last two JTL games for Gellong have seen him rack up 22 and 18 possessions. He is now honing his midfield craft NOT learning how to play it.
We for some #%*^ reason don’t draft natural ballhawkes .... cue my weekly Bailey Banfield reminder.

It’s part of why I don’t rate or have any confidence in our recruiting team as far as midfielders go.
They go players with potentially positional versatility over players who are capable of playing pure midfield roles. ( Yet most weeks we are beaten at stoppages, in clearances and in contested possessions.
Hard to get forward supply and entry if you don’t have the ball.)

These decisions are exasperated by the fact we just don’t develop player well period. Therefore the recruiting teams choices are not supported by adequate player development. The frustrating thing is that the pattern just keeps being repeated in successive years.

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a difffernt result.”

Yet we keep doing it . :shrug:
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Great post mate and agree we keep doing the same thing over and over again. The AFL system itself is a little bit of the problem as the want for youth has taken over the want for good footballers. Potential is the most overused word in the AFL and at the Eagles we thrive on the word.
Still not seen a premiership side without a good midfield but seen plenty of premiership sides with average forwards and backs but good midfields.
Even our supporters get carried away with how good Mcgovern and Kennedy are and don't get me wrong they are great players but they don't win you premierships unfortunately and midfielders do. Kennedy, Darling lecras etc would all be even better players with a decent midfield.
The club just does not get it. If I could get Dylan Shiel and Rory Sloane to the club and had to give up Mcgovern, Darling and some picks or other players I would do it in a heartbeat. But our club wouldn't as they believe it is a better look to pay overs for a player and him to stay than to take a risk to make the club better.
Anyway another year coming and more of the same will take place, our midfield will get smashed all year again, our supporters will blame the forwards and backs all year. Rinse and repeat again next year.
 
Not too concerned , we might have overachieved the past few seasons , we are not a team that bottoms out .
Can see what Oscar Allen and Brander will offer in a few years time .

Masten and Watson were very good at EP , Watson just plays his own game and it is very refreshing might frustrate the coaching group though .
 
boondy said:
Agreed we havent drafted a genuine mid for more than a decade. As someone mentioned before since Judd left it should have been a priority.
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Ebert, Shuey, Gaff, Stevens, Masten, Swift, Maginnes, Hutchings, Cavka, Waterman, Sheed, Partington, Ainsworth, Brayshaw

Although I agree with the overall observation. In recent times, we have valued versatility and it hasn’t paid off.
 
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What we need is a solid midfielder who requests a trade to us randomly because he's homesick or something and we can get them cheap.

D.Swallow, J.Martin, off the top of my head.

Brad Hill cost Fremantle practically Chris Mayne or something. Can you believe that? Highway robbery! Even won their B&F. They've traded a speedy flanker and cashed in on a pure competitive midfielder in Brayshaw. That's on top of the talent they have in this area too. Hard not to be envious of that.
 

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