Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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Dubsforsam1 said:
I think there are a multitude of reasons:

1 - Last season we had both McCartin brothers available with Paddy being the No1 Intercept marker and winning Intercept possessions with great footskills which meant we could attack defences that weren't set. It also meant Blakey for example wasn't playing as a KPD and could rebound far easier.

2 - Hickey's form has fallen off dramatically which means we are getting beaten more at the contest and don't have him as a marking option.

3 - Reid is injured which has had negative impacts on our forward pressure, our 2nd ruck option and ability to clear out of defence.

4 - Buddy's form has fallen away which impacts our ability to kick a score.

5 - Heeney/Papleys goal scoring touch has disappeared.
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The other part of it is psychological. Last two years we were a young team who found themself gelling and really getting on a roll, playing with confidence and flair etc. We cop a pantsing in the grand final and now, not only so we have the new weight of expectation, we also have a huge knock to our belief of how good we are. Our ball movement and attack has just been so much worse this year and I think we just don't back ourselves or the our teammates in the way we did before. Interested to see how we go the next couple of years.
 

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Longmire's first game as head coach was against Melbourne in Round 1 2011 where he selected a former West Coast ruckman as the sub. I wonder if there's a chance he'll select a former West Coast ruckman as the sub in game 300.
 
grimlock said:
Longmire's first game as head coach was against Melbourne in Round 1 2011 where he selected a former West Coast ruckman as the sub. I wonder if there's a chance he'll select a former West Coast ruckman as the sub in game 300.
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I hope he does it and when asked in the presser he just says "for the melts"
 
grimlock said:
Longmire's first game as head coach was against Melbourne in Round 1 2011 where he selected a former West Coast ruckman as the sub. I wonder if there's a chance he'll select a former West Coast ruckman as the sub in game 300.
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Was that the draw? Think I was there for that actually.
 

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The King! said:
We literally had no 19 year olds play in the grand final last year .

Agree can't pile on the coach completely , but then you do the usual and give him all the credit for the good stuff, shaping the team etc etc.

He can't have the credit but no blame, that's bull.
Sydney aren't playing exciting footy under Longmire right now that's a myth


But 300 games and a flag is a fair effort well done
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C'mon King. I never once claimed we had 19 year olds in our GF team last year. My point was around our lack of depth, and I noted that we've been forced to play several 19 year olds in our seniors this year, ie, Sheldrick, (Corey) Warner, Roberts, digging so deep into our reserves have they've often battled to scrape together a competitive team.

More of our players were fit last year and we made it to the GF despite our list being still relatively young and inexperienced. As I also noted, we lost the key role of Reid, which formed the basis of much of our late resurgence in 2022. We had no replacement, no depth to cover him, causing us to lose control in the PF and then get buried under the sheer mountain of finals experience Geelong had, compared to most of our young guys playing a handful of finals at best. Experience is everything in big finals. We had no chance of winning that GF, especially after Geelong had the luxury of resting their best senior players, ready to have them peak for the finals.

Exciting footy under Horse is no myth. Did you miss where we got to the GF final last year on scintillating, high pressure, high risk, highly skilled footy, burning opposition teams through the corridor on rebound. We've kept that up enough that we've been ahead at 3/4 time in all but a handful of games this year. But our last quarter fade-outs reflect a lack of experience, mental toughness and especially fitness, among other things - as injuries have left players struggling to get a solid block of training behind them but, rather, being shoved back into the seniors ASAP. Once we have enough players back and fit to put our boys in their best positions, and with a solid preseason behind them, I fully expect we'll see a much better 2024 season, maybe even another GF appearance, though we may have to play a bunch more finals before we're ready to win the big one.

There's no BS in saying a coach should only get credit or blame for what they can control. Horse can only work with the players he has at his disposal. Most of our issues this year have been down to injuries and fitness. Horse deserves credit for what he does when he has a full list to shape, and yeah, he shouldn't have to carry the can when we're struggling with a lack of fitness, depth and with injury concerns. Because those things are outside his remit and outside of his control.

Horse acknowledges the challenges we've had as a team this year, but he doesn't use them as excuses. Horse plays the hand he's dealt the best way he can. I doubt very much that any other coach could have us doing better, but we could certainly be doing a lot worse. Anyway, it was great to see the boys rally and hold on for the win against the dogs, playing a four quarter effort. They seem to have a huge respect for Horse and wanted to get it done for him.

You should do what I do and enjoy re-watching the first halves of our losing games this year. I won't be surprised when we blow teams away for four quarters in 2024.
 
Swan4Life said:
Perfect summary.

I would just tack on an addendum to point 2:

2a - Contested ball has regressed from what was already one of the weakest aspects of our game - particularly around stoppages, where our clearance numbers are well below average.
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We lack a bid bodied inside mid and a ruck that can, effectively, add another mid to the mix. Mitchell, Hewett, Dawson....imagine if we'd been able to hang onto them all, but Melbourne dollars buy more than Sydney dollars, plus the potential of a well-paid life after footy is greater.
 
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RubbaDuck said:
C'mon King. I never once claimed we had 19 year olds in our GF team last year. My point was around our lack of depth, and I noted that we've been forced to play several 19 year olds in our seniors this year, ie, Sheldrick, (Corey) Warner, Roberts, digging so deep into our reserves have they've often battled to scrape together a competitive team.

More of our players were fit last year and we made it to the GF despite our list being still relatively young and inexperienced. As I also noted, we lost the key role of Reid, which formed the basis of much of our late resurgence in 2022. We had no replacement, no depth to cover him, causing us to lose control in the PF and then get buried under the sheer mountain of finals experience Geelong had, compared to most of our young guys playing a handful of finals at best. Experience is everything in big finals. We had no chance of winning that GF, especially after Geelong had the luxury of resting their best senior players, ready to have them peak for the finals.

Exciting footy under Horse is no myth. Did you miss where we got to the GF final last year on scintillating, high pressure, high risk, highly skilled footy, burning opposition teams through the corridor on rebound. We've kept that up enough that we've been ahead at 3/4 time in all but a handful of games this year. But our last quarter fade-outs reflect a lack of experience, mental toughness and especially fitness, among other things - as injuries have left players struggling to get a solid block of training behind them but, rather, being shoved back into the seniors ASAP. Once we have enough players back and fit to put our boys in their best positions, and with a solid preseason behind them, I fully expect we'll see a much better 2024 season, maybe even another GF appearance, though we may have to play a bunch more finals before we're ready to win the big one.

There's no BS in saying a coach should only get credit or blame for what they can control. Horse can only work with the players he has at his disposal. Most of our issues this year have been down to injuries and fitness. Horse deserves credit for what he does when he has a full list to shape, and yeah, he shouldn't have to carry the can when we're struggling with a lack of fitness, depth and with injury concerns. Because those things are outside his remit and outside of his control.

Horse acknowledges the challenges we've had as a team this year, but he doesn't use them as excuses. Horse plays the hand he's dealt the best way he can. I doubt very much that any other coach could have us doing better, but we could certainly be doing a lot worse. Anyway, it was great to see the boys rally and hold on for the win against the dogs, playing a four quarter effort. They seem to have a huge respect for Horse and wanted to get it done for him.

You should do what I do and enjoy re-watching the first halves of our losing games this year. I won't be surprised when we blow teams away for four quarters in 2024.
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Good post , I disagree on parts but don't want to sit here picking back and forth, well I do , but I should work.

I agree we were exciting last year this year no. Been in close games, but even last night the skills and play were a bit of a slog at times.

I can only go on what we see, don't see behind the scenes etc. To me It seems Horse is an A grade man manager. If perhaps you get offside , then it could stink , as the players would back the coach.

I think he can develop and change styles in the summer , but match day he is so bloody rigid .

End of the day I think he should be marked on wins and losses , not what ifs.

I still think this year is the first time I have heard him make excuses he never used to make.

Either way he won a flag and has coached 300 games , a stellar achievement . Yep glad we won last night , but we aren't winning another flag with him as coach imo. Let's be honest if you did an all time Swans side half the squad would be players he coaches and the kids he has coached are super talented , a lot of top picks recently .

He has had the cattle and underachieved
 
The King! said:
Good post , I disagree on parts but don't want to sit here picking back and forth, well I do , but I should work.

I agree we were exciting last year this year no. Been in close games, but even last night the skills and play were a bit of a slog at times.

I can only go on what we see, don't see behind the scenes etc. To me It seems Horse is an A grade man manager. If perhaps you get offside , then it could stink , as the players would back the coach.

I think he can develop and change styles in the summer , but match day he is so bloody rigid .

End of the day I think he should be marked on wins and losses , not what ifs.

I still think this year is the first time I have heard him make excuses he never used to make.

Either way he won a flag and has coached 300 games , a stellar achievement . Yep glad we won last night , but we aren't winning another flag with him as coach imo. Let's be honest if you did an all time Swans side half the squad would be players he coaches and the kids he has coached are super talented , a lot of top picks recently .

He has had the cattle and underachieved
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Is 11 lines a record for you
 

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Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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