Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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One other thing I'll say in Horses defence is that he often gets criticized for being stubborn in his tactics or not having a plan B. I completely disagree. The game plan we had when he started couldn't be more different to the one we have today.

And the whole no plan b or C thing is just a lazy argument that every single supporter in the league levels against their coach. It basically translates to "he can't come up with a way to win every single game of football we play".

Horse frequently changes things up on game day and is often criticised by the very same people for doing so. Heaven forbid should he put an extra in defence after we've been belted at the stoppages for 20 minutes straight and conceded numerous inside 50s.
 
Punts said:
Not sure 14 and last year had anything to do with umps

We literally shat the bed across the club

No excuses
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That's fair, and the club and horse deserve a bit of flack for the performances on those days. But they also deserve a bit of credit for 2012 and consistently being in a position to get into grand finals almost every year. It's not all black and white both ways.
 
MF said:
One other thing I'll say in Horses defence is that he often gets criticized for being stubborn in his tactics or not having a plan B. I completely disagree. The game plan we had when he started couldn't be more different to the one we have today.

And the whole no plan b or C thing is just a lazy argument that every single supporter in the league levels against their coach. It basically translates to "he can't come up with a way to win every single game of football we play".

Horse frequently changes things up on game day and is often criticised by the very same people for doing so. Heaven forbid should he put an extra in defence after we've been belted at the stoppages for 20 minutes straight and conceded numerous inside 50s.
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It is seriously impressive how many times he has reinvented his teams to play to the strengths of his players. It's not like he's got a set style that he's trying to apply to different generations and then giving in as soon as those generations don't adjust to that style.
 

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Caj said:
I don’t get that

You say he’s an unbelievable coach who you wouldn’t replace with anyone, yet it’s the players who have to take 💯 of the heat for the multiple grand final losses

If he has no impact on the game on Grand Final day then why is he such a good coach?
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Where did I say he is an unbelievable coach ? Get some context to your argument Toss.
 
Punts said:
Not sure 14 and last year had anything to do with umps

We literally shat the bed across the club

No excuses
Click to expand...
14 and 16 were absolutely collective bed-shittings, but 16 can abso****inglutely be put on the umpiring. I've repeated myself on that often enough, but find a team that copped that level of reaming and would still be down 1 point with half a quarter to play.

I also don't think 2012 gets enough credit. As MF said, it's incredibly difficult for a non-Victorian team to win there against a victorian team.
 
MF said:
That's fair, and the club and horse deserve a bit of flack for the performances on those days. But they also deserve a bit of credit for 2012 and consistently being in a position to get into grand finals almost every year. It's not all black and white both ways.
Click to expand...

2022 at least for me was worse than 2014 at least that Hawthorn side was a generational 3 peat.

The 2022 Geelong side was its last hurrah with a team full of players at the end yet they outworked and outran us all day.

2016 was a mix of bad luck and ridiculous decisions.
 
2022 was easily the least bothersome of the GF thrashings for me. Only one full-time mid under the age of 24 has won a premiership in the last decade (Bontempelli in 2016). We had two of them. That's not an excuse, it's a fact. Says a lot about where our team was at and we looked done by the second half of the week before. Was a monumental effort to even be in the GF, whereas 2014 and 2016 we should've been there for where our teams were at and we simply blew both opportunities.
 
MF said:
That's fair, and the club and horse deserve a bit of flack for the performances on those days. But they also deserve a bit of credit for 2012 and consistently being in a position to get into grand finals almost every year. It's not all black and white both ways.
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buck stops with the coach thats my point.

He deserves the credit for 2012, for making finals etc, he just deserves to wear the failure too. If he quit today he has been very good, plus exceptional off field.

He has a massive Opportunity now in 2023/24/25

if he cant get a flag he should pack it in, as the failed finals will be stacking up imo with the talent he has had and has now
 
The King! said:
buck stops with the coach thats my point.

He deserves the credit for 2012, for making finals etc, he just deserves to wear the failure too. If he quit today he has been very good, plus exceptional off field.

He has a massive Opportunity now in 2023/24/25

if he cant get a flag he should pack it in, as the failed finals will be stacking up imo with the talent he has had and has now
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I reckon its underestimated just how good Horse and the Swans have been at developing the talent they have had and have now.
I remember counting a few years ago over 20 (I think 27?) first round picks on GWS list.. Thats their entire b22 + sub + emergencies. The Suns have an exceptional amount of talent.. Freo the same.. Even North has truckloads of top end talent. Carlton hasn't played finals in over a decade and have a stacked list.
If..
Horse and the Swans are making finals, making grand finals and even winning the whole thing with a list made up of rookies and players who are prepared to live in Sydney
Then...
Horse and the Swans deserve a truck load of credit
And...
Just imagine what Horse and the Swans could achieve with the lists of some of the afore mentioned clubs
 
The King! said:
buck stops with the coach thats my point.

He deserves the credit for 2012, for making finals etc, he just deserves to wear the failure too. If he quit today he has been very good, plus exceptional off field.

He has a massive Opportunity now in 2023/24/25

if he cant get a flag he should pack it in, as the failed finals will be stacking up imo with the talent he has had and has now
Click to expand...
If you consider the aggregate opinion of this board as somewhere near right that cannot be correct as we don't have:
a winning ruck
a winning KPF
a clearance winning midfield
are probably short a KPD
a GF winning team
We are too young AND too old
don't have depth
have too many skinny flankers and list blockers.
So whatever Horse does is doomed from the get-go.
 
SGBeach said:
I reckon its underestimated just how good Horse and the Swans have been at developing the talent they have had and have now.
I remember counting a few years ago over 20 (I think 27?) first round picks on GWS list.. Thats their entire b22 + sub + emergencies. The Suns have an exceptional amount of talent.. Freo the same.. Even North has truckloads of top end talent. Carlton hasn't played finals in over a decade and have a stacked list.
If..
Horse and the Swans are making finals, making grand finals and even winning the whole thing with a list made up of rookies and players who are prepared to live in Sydney
Then...
Horse and the Swans deserve a truck load of credit
And...
Just imagine what Horse and the Swans could achieve with the lists of some of the afore mentioned clubs
Click to expand...

The idea this is some super talented generation going to waste is not true

We've done it the hard way and cobbled an exciting list together that runs on buy in and internal development in a hostile market

Easy to overrate your own
 

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bedford said:
Unbelievable to make finals .
His plan b is to try and protect a lead and it's cost us at times.
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Nobody has mentioned the word. Once again someone not reading a post properly, taking it out of context and then talking off the top of their head saying the first thing that comes into their head to run their agenda. He did do what you say Saturday night but call it as it was. Players in that last qtr were deplorable. People will say we were out on our feet ? Adelaide played in the same conditions. If the word UNBELIEVABLE has to be used then yes It is an Unbelievable effort to make finals considering the decimating injuries we have and continue to have getting 2 back and then losing 2 most weeks of the year. Defensive coaches need to take a bow tbh. Outside the Geelong debacle they have defended to the death considering the structure being severely affected.
 
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Wolfgang West said:
Nobody has mentioned the word. Once again someone not reading a post properly, taking it out of context and then talking off the top of their head saying the first thing that comes into their head to run their agenda. He did do what you say Saturday night but call it as it was. Players in that last qtr were deplorable. People will say we were out on our feet ? Adelaide played in the same conditions. If the word UNBELIEVABLE has to be used then yes It is an Unbelievable effort to make finals considering the decimating injuries we have and continue to have getting 2 back and then losing 2 most weeks of the year. Defensive coached need to take a bow tbh. Outside the Geelong debacle they have defended to the death considering the structure being severely affected.
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My unbelievable was nothing to do with earlier posts , it is unbelievable from where we were after the loss to the Tigers in round 17.
By the way i had a lazy $10 on us for the flag back then , happy to collect if sober enough on October 1
 
bedford said:
My unbelievable was nothing to do with earlier posts , it is unbelievable from where we were after the loss to the Tigers in round 17.
By the way i had a lazy $10 on us for the flag back then , happy to collect if sober enough on October 1
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Think our finals series will be over first week tbh but great effort to make it and with a few list adjustments and a bit of luck 2024 we could be right amongst it.
 
Wolfgang West said:
Think our finals series will be over first week tbh but great effort to make it and with a few list adjustments and a bit of luck 2024 we could be right amongst it.
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Luck is it really if you have a list good enough .
Horse isn't going anywhere , but we will still need a freshen up with the assistants , wouldn't mind Michael Barlow , what he's done with Werribee is outstanding , just a thought
 
bedford said:
Luck is it really if you have a list good enough .
Horse isn't going anywhere , but we will still need a freshen up with the assistants , wouldn't mind Michael Barlow , what he's done with Werribee is outstanding , just a thought
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I heard WCE are sniffing around Dean Cox and Don Pyke to add to their coaching staff. Will be an interesting off-season if they both leave as very experienced assistants. Although Mark McVeigh and Leon Cameron are both at the club already without being part of the senior side, so maybe they'd come straight in.
 

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Coach John Longmire - Part IV

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