Unsolved JonBenet Ramsey

[Cataholic]

I've been RDI in some way shape or form for as long as I've been reading about this case, but I'm still open to the fact that it may very well be IDI. I'm not wedded to a side like some here...................

For me, the logical rationale based on the things that we do know is that Patsy is involved somehow, but I struggle to reconcile this with the way in which JBR was killed and sexually assaulted. It boggles my mind to think that a mother could do that to her daughter. It's a massive leap to include this in a theory without any real evidence of that level of psychopathy in either Patsy or John.

This.

I don't believe Patsy was involved in the murder of JB, but I feel she became involved after the fact.

I remain open to the IDI theory, but for mine the evidence suggests that lies have been told within the family circle.

 

[Cataholic]

Maybe she genuinely didn't. Patsy was quite ill for lengthy periods undergoing chemo and fighting cancer, I don't see why she'd need to bother herself with the finances and she trusted John to take care of it all.

Patsy also had a housekeeper, so maybe she didn't go in John's office.

Possibly.

Just an interesting dynamic for me.

 

[GreyCrow]

Maybe she genuinely didn't. Patsy was quite ill for lengthy periods undergoing chemo and fighting cancer, I don't see why she'd need to bother herself with the finances and she trusted John to take care of it all.

Patsy also had a housekeeper, so maybe she didn't go in John's office.

This is fair

But given the US pay as you use medical system I would have thought Patsy would want to know if there was enough apart from ' Johns rich '

She may have not known how much the bonus was but I do think she would have known there was a bonus - again picking over small things

 

[OnTheRocks]

It would take rat cunning and a laser focus, so why the uncertainty of mind in addressing the ransom note, and the sudden disorganisation in pivoting from abduction and extortion to brutal murder?

It would take a laser focus or an unhealthy obsession. I doubt abduction or torture of JBR was the motive but through her they could deliver the ultimate pain.

The ransom note is a deliberate distraction imo.

Yeah but I think it could be for other reasons. To the parents it is shocking an 'abduction' then it gives hope to get her back alive but we know this isn't so. The note could be designed for a mental torture long after JBR is found.
To most anyone to read it would be confused by its content & could conclude that it is a hoax but to the parents their daughter is missing & it's all they have to go by. Then after they find her, the note raises more questions to torment their minds long, long after that fateful Christmas day.

 

[Cataholic]

It would take a laser focus or an unhealthy obsession. I doubt abduction or torture of JBR was the motive but through her they could deliver the ultimate pain.

Yeah but I think it could be for other reasons. To the parents it is shocking an 'abduction' then it gives hope to get her back alive but we know this isn't so. The note could be designed for a mental torture long after JBR is found.
To most anyone to read it would be confused by its content & could conclude that it is a hoax but to the parents their daughter is missing & it's all they have to go by. Then after they find her, the note raises more questions to torment their minds long, long after that fateful Christmas day.

I can see that.

What 'foreign faction' would have beef with John such that they travel overseas and execute a 6yo girl ?

 

[OnTheRocks]

It's bloody disgusting.

Was it ever determined whether or not it was post mortem?

I believe so. It's why I doubt the motive was to 'hurt' JBR in the sense that it really wasn't about her. She was the object & the damage that had to be done to get to the parents.

Occam's Razor.

Hickam's dictum

If he was very familiar with the place that's possible. I think it's more likely he did it in one visit. It really doesn't take that long to write a note.

He? Very well could be a she or a him & her.
The note was said to take approximately 21 mins to write. Combine that with the other writtings & that's a bit of time.

 

[OnTheRocks]

For me it’s just to many things, although small in detail on there own they paint a bigger picture that it’s just hard to believe.

And yet the case remains unsolved.

I believe when tested, the word and letter structures more closely aligned with those of Patty than anyone else.

Did she write it or not?

disappeared into the night forgoing the money they did all that for.

C'mon.

You're so stuck on the monies.

 

[Cataholic]

I believe so. It's why I doubt the motive was to 'hurt' JBR in the sense that it really wasn't about her. She was the object & the damage that had to be done to get to the parents.

Hickam's dictum

He? Very well could be a she or a him & her.
The note was said to take approximately 21 mins to write. Combine that with the other writtings & that's a bit of time.

The rage of the alleged intruder seemed to be directed at John (title on ransom note, defaced photo) and the SA would cause on-going anguish to any father....or mother.

It could also be staging.

Hickam's Dictum..... it's possible, but the suspicion of lying by the Ramsey's bothers me.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

And yet the case remains unsolved.

Did she write it or not?

You're so stuck on the monies.

No, not stuck on the monies at all.

Just dont see the point in going to the extent of all the snooping around to discover the bonus and multiple attempts to write what would become a lengthy ransom note if the sole intention was to inflict pain.
Might aswell have walked in, killed the child where she lay and left, the end result would be the same with a lot less risk of discovery.

And another thing that strikes me as strange, John searches the house for his missing Daughter but doesnt find her, he then searches again and finds her.
If my car keys go missing I, and im sure most people, would turn my house upside down looking for them, yet it took 2 attempts to find his missing child in his own home.

 

[jason_recliner]

So if they were thinking 'he has millions of cash in the bank' why were they happy to settle for $118k, even if that sum was a lot of money to them?

Wouldn't you ask for at least one of those millions, especially given you were about to abduct a child?

Typo, now corrected.

 

[Lady O]

And another thing that strikes me as strange, John searches the house for his missing Daughter but doesnt find her, he then searches again and finds her.
If my car keys go missing I, and im sure most people, would turn my house upside down looking for them, yet it took 2 attempts to find his missing child in his own home.

Don't you find it strange that the homeowner and father of the missing child was the one sent by the Police woman (the only one there) to search the house, rather the search being undertaken by the Police? He decided to search systematically and begins by looking in the remotest room in the house first. Then he finds her dead and the Police use this against him, because he went straight there and then he moved the body. Really, the Police stuffed this up so badly, and then blamed the parents.

 

[OnTheRocks]

I can see that.

What 'foreign faction' would have beef with John such that they travel overseas and execute a 6yo girl ?

Exactly.
The note is said to have some similarities with ransoms or demands made in some movies.

 

[Cataholic]

Don't you find it strange that the homeowner and father of the missing child was the one sent by the Police woman (the only one there) to search the house, rather the search being undertaken by the Police? He decided to search systematically and begins by looking in the remotest room in the house first. Then he finds her dead and the Police use this against him, because he went straight there and then he moved the body. Really, the Police stuffed this up so badly, and then blamed the parents.

Fair point.

But why didn't he include that room in his initial search?

As a frantic father you'd tear the house apart in the search for your daughter wouldn't you?

He had a military background and was a high flyer in the business world, so you'd be forgiven for thinking he was methodical and thorough by nature.

I find it odd.

But yes, the cops screwed it up magnificently.

 

[Cataholic]

Exactly.
The note is said to have some similarities with ransoms or demands made in some movies.

Money wasn't the objective with that note.

Imo.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Don't you find it strange that the homeowner and father of the missing child was the one sent by the Police woman (the only one there) to search the house, rather the search being undertaken by the Police? He decided to search systematically and begins by looking in the remotest room in the house first. Then he finds her dead and the Police use this against him, because he went straight there and then he moved the body. Really, the Police stuffed this up so badly, and then blamed the parents.

What I find strange is that, with your child missing, you wouldnt go to every access point straight away to secure the premisis and remaining Family before Police arrived.
And why wouldnt you go looking in the most remote place first, or atleast during, the initial search as he did in the subsequent search.
.
I'd suggest the Police weighed it up pretty quickly and wanted to see how quickly he'd lead them to her in such a big house, he didnt disappoint.
They probably didnt expect he'd mess with the scene though, that was an oversight.

 

[Lady O]

And why wouldnt you go looking in the most remote place first, or atleast during, the initial search as he did in the subsequent search.
.

I hadn't heard of John Ramsey searching the house twice.

Do you mean a search by the first Police who arrived there?

"Two police officers responded to the 911 call and arrived at the Ramsey home within three minutes. They conducted a cursory search of the house but did not find any sign of forced entry.

Officer Rick French went to the basement and came to a door that was secured by an additional wooden latch at the top of the door frame. He paused for a moment in front of the door, but walked away without opening it. French later explained that he was looking for an exit route used by the kidnapper; since the wooden latch was holding the door closed from inside the house, the kidnapper could not have used this door and then closed the latch from the inside, ruling this out as a possible exit. JonBenét's body was later found behind the door." Source Wikipedia

 

[Cataholic]

I hadn't heard of John Ramsey searching the house twice.

Do you mean a search by the first Police who arrived there?

"Two police officers responded to the 911 call and arrived at the Ramsey home within three minutes. They conducted a cursory search of the house but did not find any sign of forced entry.

Officer Rick French went to the basement and came to a door that was secured by an additional wooden latch at the top of the door frame. He paused for a moment in front of the door, but walked away without opening it. French later explained that he was looking for an exit route used by the kidnapper; since the wooden latch was holding the door closed from inside the house, the kidnapper could not have used this door and then closed the latch from the inside, ruling this out as a possible exit. JonBenét's body was later found behind the door." Source Wikipedia

So the killer murdered JB, or at least put her body in that room, then stepped back INTO the house and latched the door behind them?

 

[Lady O]

So the killer murdered JB, or at least put her body in that room, then stepped back INTO the house and latched the door behind them?

Obviously.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

I hadn't heard of John Ramsey searching the house twice.

Do you mean a search by the first Police who arrived there?

"Two police officers responded to the 911 call and arrived at the Ramsey home within three minutes. They conducted a cursory search of the house but did not find any sign of forced entry.

Officer Rick French went to the basement and came to a door that was secured by an additional wooden latch at the top of the door frame. He paused for a moment in front of the door, but walked away without opening it. French later explained that he was looking for an exit route used by the kidnapper; since the wooden latch was holding the door closed from inside the house, the kidnapper could not have used this door and then closed the latch from the inside, ruling this out as a possible exit. JonBenét's body was later found behind the door." Source Wikipedia

Have a think about what you've just quoted.
If the Police officer didnt look past that door because of the latch holding the door closed from inside the house, how did the abductor get through it and leave it latched inside behind them before escaping through the basement..

They couldnt have, so it leaves only 2 alternatives if the body was found behind it, either the killer left via that door and latched it behind them which doesnt fit the story, or, someone inside the house went to it and latched it between Jonbenet entering through it and the Police officer pausing infront of it.
Assuming it must have been option 2, as option 1 doesnt fit the narrative, why wasnt the room searched for the missing child at that point?

 

[Cataholic]

Obviously.

So what exit would they have used?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Obviously.

But what about the spiderweb they miraculously left intact entering and exiting the basement window as is believed to be the case.
How could they exit via the door, latch it and then get back in to exit the webbed window?

 

[PenfoldsFan]

So what exit would they have used?

Objection your Honour!
Calls for speculation..lol

 

[Cataholic]

Have a think about what you've just quoted.
If the Police officer didnt look past that door because of the latch holding the door closed from inside the house, how did the abductor get through it and leave it latched inside behind them before escaping through the basement..

They couldnt have, so it leaves only 2 alternatives if the body was found behind it, either the killer left via that door and latched it behind them which doesnt fit the story, or, someone inside the house went to it and latched it between Jonbenet entering through it and the Police officer pausing infront of it.
Assuming it must have been option 2, as option 1 doesnt fit the narrative, why wasnt the room searched for the missing child at that point?

Option 1 is almost physically impossible I'd venture, though we haven't seen the design of the door and latch mechanism.

So the killer placed JB in the basement, stepped out, latched the door and walked away.

Clearly they didn't exit through the basement window.

So where did the killer go.....out the front door, or did they stay in the house?

EDIT: was there another exit within the basement area??

 

[FR0GGY]

So in an interview with Barbara Walters John says it was HIS theory that the demand for $118k was linked to his bonus, and Patsy said she was unaware that John had received such a bonus.....

So.....Patsy didn't know about it, yet the alleged intruder somehow did, or the intruder threw a blind dart and got a bullseye??

The intruder decided not to use 119 as they knew port would make that famous years later, so settled on 118

 

[Lady O]

So what exit would they have used?

Do you know the estimated time of JB's death?