Josh Fraser!!

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There wasn't a decent ruckman on the ground today.

I know Wood hasn't been in form but I'd play him and make a call at the end of the year. He at least has the potential to be a ruckman. If you are in your 10th season and never had 1 good one as a ruckman then surely it is fantasy hoping for something to magically apppear.
 
Carlton has the worst ruck division in the league by a street and they are competitive. Rucking is a useless part of the game that doesn't effect any result of any match unless something extreme happens. It's only about what your ruckman does around the ground.
 

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Everyone's so quick to bag Fraser and it's always been the case. If Daisy had been a number 1 pick it'd be the same for him. And what's this nonsense about never having a good season? On his back we made two grand finals and in '06 he was awesome, and yes, he's a big game player. When he has decent back-up and, as such, is allowed to do what he was recruited for - to be a mobile ruckman cum forward, not a tap ruckman - he is a star. No tap-outs to advantage? Is he supposed to wrap it with a bow as well? In an even numbers contest at the bounce, surely we're a 50-50 chance to get the ball. It's not just his fault if 3 of ours get beaten by 3 of theirs. And you won't find a better big man for finding space - even in a congested forward line he's always by himself. He wasn't that bad yesterday, there were far worse. The biggest mistake I saw him make was let that sitter bounce off his chest. There are far greater problems with our team than the solitary ruckman we have.
 
Dansolo said:
Everyone's so quick to bag Fraser and it's always been the case. If Daisy had been a number 1 pick it'd be the same for him. And what's this nonsense about never having a good season? On his back we made two grand finals and in '06 he was awesome, and yes, he's a big game player. When he has decent back-up and, as such, is allowed to do what he was recruited for - to be a mobile ruckman cum forward, not a tap ruckman - he is a star. No tap-outs to advantage? Is he supposed to wrap it with a bow as well? In an even numbers contest at the bounce, surely we're a 50-50 chance to get the ball. It's not just his fault if 3 of ours get beaten by 3 of theirs. And you won't find a better big man for finding space - even in a congested forward line he's always by himself. He wasn't that bad yesterday, there were far worse. The biggest mistake I saw him make was let that sitter bounce off his chest. There are far greater problems with our team than the solitary ruckman we have.
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yeah because Daisy has been in the system 10yrs hasn't he, if Daisy is as bad and as not interested in football as Josh in 5yrs time we'll be saying the same thing.
And Josh is so far from being a star its not funny, I think you might be over rating him just a tad there, yes he is brilliant on his good days but they are to far apart in sequence. He is meant to be a leader, yet he doesn't do anything on the field regularly enough to suggest he even give a shit...
 
Fraser was given less of a chance than any of our last high picks - he was expected to be the Great White Hope from day 1 and was played as such.

You might think I overate him, I know you underrate him.

Not everyone cries on the field. Some people show it differently. I wear my heart on my sleeve when I play. Not all my team-mates do but I still know who cares and who doesn't. Sure Fraser doesn't jump up and down like everyone else, but it's a tough call to assume it means he doesn't care.
 
Looked Terrible and That dropped mark on the Lead was Disgusting.

Not Sure to do with Fraser and Also should not be Vice-Captain
 
I was in the same boat leading into Finals last year, Swanny, really wondering if he actually wanted to be there or not, and if he was actually a Collingwood man (I don't ask for alot from the players - just that they bleed black and white :) ). Particularly after he rested himself for the '07 Prelim when Ottens took us to the cleaners. But he showed alot of energy and fire in that Adelaide EF and it got me back off the fence. I'm not going to pretend to know why the club rate him as a vice-captain, maybe he's awesome with the players or development or stabling influence or whatever, but I agree, for me he isn't a game-day VC/Captain.
 
I didn't mean 'rest' as in taking a game off. From what I remember he told the team he didn't think it was in the team's best interests to play due to his injuries and took himself out of contention to give the 'Pies the best possible chance of winning.

And you're right, at the time I didn't know the extent of his back injuries and considering how close we were to winning and knowing he'd have made a difference, I was, at the time, seriously unimpressed. It wasn't until after the game the extent of the injuries were being reported I got a better understanding of it.
 
We dominated the clearances yesterday.

Our midfield was well on top, particularly after qtr time.

Thought Josh was solid without being great. He will run into some good form over the next few weeks. He at least did not get beaten by Maric.

Bryan on the other hand, when he was on the ground we lost our way through the middle.

Just goes to show we really need Wood to stand up and play second fiddle to Josh and have the same sort of impact to allow us to remain dangerous throughout the entire game at the stoppages.

Also, once Daisy, Swan, Clarke, Davis and Pendles were off the ground or not in the centre square that's when we really struggled. I agree with the too many HBFers. No need for Johnson and Toovey in the same side. In fact neither of them should be in the side.

Need to make sure our next tier of rotations can have some sort of impact as our A-grade brigade. That's where J-Mac, Rusty, Beams, Wellingham etc. need to be stand up.

Gee, Daisy and Pendles dominating those centre clearances in the 3rd accompanied by Swanny was just brilliant.
 

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Optimax said:
He didnt "rest" the 07 prelim

who ever says he was rested do not understand the extent of back injuries
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Back injuries are the worst thing on the planet. You couldn't feel anymore useless than how you do with a back injury.
 
Josh is far and away our best ruckman and should play every week, injuries permitting. Unfortunately he lacks the size to ever be a dominant ruck but he is still imo a very good one and a long way ahead of Bryan and Wood.
 
Fraser never really has been a Ruckman in my estimation, he is useful for throw in's. But he tries and compensates for his lack of centre bounce ability by jumping way way too early and as such he never gets an effective tap. Its like he knows his role is to annoy rather than ruck.

If Rocca doesnt have an impact this season, as in get on the park enough, Fraser should play up forward around the CHF area, Cloke should go closer to goal and Wood should be given the number one ruck duties.

Fraser will straighten us up by providing a 'reasonable' marking option and he is a good kick for goal. It will keep Cloke closer to goal, he needs all the help he can get as his kicking for goal is poor and he roams too far from goals as it is and creates a big man vacuum closer to goal when he does.

Wood needs the chance to live or die in the position. We 'spent' a lot in getting him and we need to know this year if he is up to it. I'd say having him languishing in the ressies is not doing his confidence any good. As a tap ruck he has shown signs and it would have to be better than what we have. Fraser can always ruck up forward, Wood can drop back.

As for Bryan, he should be put into a state of hypnosis and try and convince him that its OK to have two feet off the ground at the same time. And he should only be woken up if we have a disaster.
 
The issue i have with Josh Fraser is that he seems to only ever be 'up and about' when the whole side is...

He is a senior player and we have a lot of young inexperienced kids around him and he is in our leadership group. He is supposed to be one of the players that when the side is down, put his hand up and do the extra work, be inspirational and a leader.

When the side is down or things arn't going our way he is basically the first player to put his head down. He becomes lazy. I hate it, i have always hated this about him and frankly i cannot believe that he was even considered as a captain option.

He reeks as a selfish player and possibly person who chucks tantrums when he doesn't get his way. I may be wrong but thats the feeling i get from him.

Having said that, he is our best rucking option by a mile. But that is the only reason we persist with him, because we have no choice.
 
Don't be mistaken, Fraser is our most important player and probably the greatest finals player in the clubs history (you won't be able to name me a better one). He's missed the last month, and if he gets his run going he'll be a force
 
rose jam said:
Don't be mistaken, Fraser is our most important player and probably the greatest finals player in the clubs history (you won't be able to name me a better one). He's missed the last month, and if he gets his run going he'll be a force
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I'd say the generation of the late 20's might disagree. He doesnt even come close until he actually helps win a flag. So on that basis, I can name 20 players from 1990 that I'd rate better just on the basis that they did what they were supposed to.
 
Fraser cannot put it together consistently and when he does he is injured.

Have a look at the game Saturday. His ruckwork was good, he got a fair share of hitouts and a higher than average % to advantage, but his around the ground stuff was horrible.

He is a ruckman (or extra follower if you don't rate his ruckwork), he is not a forward and is not best used there.
 
didaka said:
Back injuries are the worst thing on the planet. You couldn't feel anymore useless than how you do with a back injury.
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Yep i have a slipped disk in my back and when it "goes" you can barely walk i can only imagine trying to play football let alone ruck all day
 
In 2000 he wasn’t ready yet. Thrown to the wolves. As time went on he was developing until he was injured and now he heads into his 10th season never really having had a very good one. An acceptable one in 2002 and a fair one in 2003 is about as good as it has been.

Rather than being overly criticised for being taken at 1 he has been carried because if it. It’s not that he’s a dud, it’s just that he is no good in the ruck, not strong enough overhead for a key position, lacks aggression and strength and is injury prone.

If he has a bad back then I feel for him – like I did for Leigh Walker. The bottom line has to be performance though. When is enough enough?

I find it disturbing that the two men considered the best captaincy candidates don’t have a real position and don’t regularly win whatever positions they do occupy.
 
MarkT said:
In 2000 he wasn’t ready yet. Thrown to the wolves. As time went on he was developing until he was injured and now he heads into his 10th season never really having had a very good one. An acceptable one in 2002 and a fair one in 2003 is about as good as it has been.

Rather than being overly criticised for being taken at 1 he has been carried because if it. It’s not that he’s a dud, it’s just that he is no good in the ruck, not strong enough overhead for a key position, lacks aggression and strength and is injury prone.

If he has a bad back then I feel for him – like I did for Leigh Walker. The bottom line has to be performance though. When is enough enough?

I find it disturbing that the two men considered the best captaincy candidates don’t have a real position and don’t regularly win whatever positions they do occupy.
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but once again, is that MM's fault?

Fraser would make a difficult match up at CHF, I dont know why we havent given him a season there, see what it brings. Move Cloke deeper into the forward line.

Fraser will never be a ruckman, and to say he is the best option there is like saying that we know he cant ruck, but we will waste him there anyway.

If he cant ruck, and Wood can barely ruck, what does it matter who rucks then? We aint going to win the rucks either way. But Fraser could be more use somewhere else, somewhere less injury prone than the ruck as well!
 
To be honest I haven't seen a huge amount of him but has Dawes ever been tried in the ruck in the twos?? He's huge, extremely athletic and ANGRY, seems to tick all the boxes. Like the fraser 'tried' at chf thing as well i reckon the position will really suit him and then we'd have two tall guys in the forward 50 who can kick it (jack being the other).

Even Fraser would be a better forward than Reid, the blokes a potato. He might be talented but I reckon Frankie Raso was more ready when he started out.



.....ok...maybe not ;)
 
Swanny36 said:
What is wrong with this bloke, seriously he is the most useless ruckmen I don't think I saw him get one hit-out to advantage, and he is not injured at all so there is no bloody excuses....he is so bloody soft its beyond amusing!
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I've been saying it for years and again I'm right.

He lacks intensity for one, I also believe that he's now just keeping Cam Wood out of the team because the coaching staff don't want to say they wasted that number 1 pick on him when we should have taken Pav who has 7 top 3 B&F in 8 years plus AA after AA!
 

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