Current Julie Cutler - Murder - 1988 - Cottesloe WA *To the Coroner

[BFew]

Inquest into the Suspected death of Julie CUTLER

https://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Inquest_2023/CUTLER, Julie Leanne.pdf (49 pages)
'[2023] WACOR 19
JURISDICTION : CORONER'S COURT OF WESTERN AUSTRALIA
ACT : CORONERS ACT 1996
CORONER : SARAH HELEN LINTON, DEPUTY STATE CORONER HEARD :
3 - 4 NOVEMBER 2022 DELIVERED : 6 APRIL 2023
FILE NO/S : CORC 830 of 2019
DECEASED : CUTLER, JULIE LEANNE'

 

[mrskafoops]

Refused the interview according to the ABC.

Detective Inspector Hamilton said police had also considered whether Claremont killer Bradley Edwards, who murdered Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon in 1996 and 1997 and is suspected of killing Sarah Spiers around the same time, could have been involved in Ms Cutler's disappearance.

Edwards also attended the same university as Ms Cutler at the same time – the WA institute of Technology (now Curtin University) – and they took some of the same units, including psychology.

Edwards had declined to be interviewed about the case, but Det Insp Hamilton said while he could not be ruled out, he was not considered more likely than other suspects to have been involved.

Claremont killer declined to be interviewed about 1988 disappearance of Perth woman

Claremont killer Bradley Edwards refused to be interviewed by detectives reinvestigating the mysterious disappearance of a Perth woman in 1988, as a coroner concludes she is dead.

www.abc.net.au

I think what was said was they asked him if he knows who Julie is and he said no and they showed him a photo I think but then he wouldn’t answer any further questions… they then analysed his actions at that time and dismissed him as a suspect.
I wish I could have recorded it all!

 

[BFew]

OK, i was of the understanding that BRE did not attend WAIT or university

'Edwards also attended the same university as Ms Cutler at the same time – the WA institute of Technology (now Curtin University) – and they took some of the same units, including psychology.'

BRE might have once worked at WAIT (now Curtin Uni).
Or possibly done a CCNA course there (technical telco stuff, with no Psych component ...lol)
BRE study at WAIT? That was the original fake suspect. Lance Williams.
Bad reporting I'd say.

 

[GreyCrow]

OK, i was of the understanding that BRE did not attend WAIT or university

'Edwards also attended the same university as Ms Cutler at the same time – the WA institute of Technology (now Curtin University) – and they took some of the same units, including psychology.'

Claremont killer declined to be interviewed about 1988 disappearance of Perth woman

Claremont killer Bradley Edwards refused to be interviewed by detectives reinvestigating the mysterious disappearance of a Perth woman in 1988, as a coroner concludes she is dead.

www.abc.net.au

Not sure the timeline fits

Julie was born 1966 - above stating age as 22

BRE born 1968 - aged 20

Not sure different age groups did the same subjects - ie one would be in more advanced classes

Given BRE was working solo as a technician in 1990 (date of HH attack) I would need to be more convinced

 

[BFew]

Seems murky water and seaweed hid it until a swimmer found it Wednesday 22nd June 88.

MISSING (SUSPICIOUS) - JULIE LEANNE CUTLER - PERTH WA - $250,000 Reward - Crime Stoppers Western Australia

DESCRIPTION: 22 years of age at time of disappearance. Light skinned. Dark brown shoulder length hair. 160cm (5 feet 3 inches) tall. Medium build. Green eyes. Last seen wearing a black evening dress with a high collar and gold buttons on the shoulder and black patent leather shoes. Carrying a...

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

'VEHICLE LOCATED:
About 11.45am on Wednesday 22 June 1988, Miss Cutler’s car was located several metres off the shore-line at Cottesloe Beach by a swimmer.'

A winter body-surfer when their feet touched it according to the Post newspaper today.

The crimestoppers info was incomplete.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/05112022.pdf

'Her Fiat car was found when the feet of a winter body-surfer touched it two days later.'

 

[Kurve]

Not sure the timeline fits

Julie was born 1966 - above stating age as 22

BRE born 1968 - aged 20

Not sure different age groups did the same subjects - ie one would be in more advanced classes

Given BRE was working solo as a technician in 1990 (date of HH attack) I would need to be more convinced

If it was BRE, connections don't need to be made to consider it more or less likely a woman became one of his victims. imo.

Cottesloe was where he did a lot of socialising and drinking.

It won't go anywhere but I still think it's possible it was him given that more than a few serial killers get such a fright after the first time they kill someone and which is often in their teens, they pause for a while then they pick up again. BRE suddenly stopped around the time Julie disappeared and Cottesloe was where his drinking pub was.

There's other things as well but I won't bang on about it. If Julie was murdered, there seems to be no shortage of POI.

 

[GreyCrow]

If it was BRE, connections don't need to be made to consider it more or less likely a woman became one of his victims. imo.

No issue with any of this - it was a response to the timeline of WAIT

 

[BFew]

BRE suddenly stopped around the time Julie disappeared and Cottesloe was where his drinking pub was.

Not to forget that by 1990 he was impulsively, assaulting and nearly sexually assaulting a social worker in Nedlands at Hollywood Hospital whilst doing his Telstra work in broad daylight. Goes to show that he was not just confined to near where he lived in his teens.

He might have killed the Social Worker if things went a different way that day.

 

[mrskafoops]

My notes from today
Day 2



Ron Carey

Bonnet of car was missing, battery was missing from car.

Tea towel in glove box with 2 champagne flutes.

Written on paper in glove box name Mike 114 walpole street - this was investigated.

Gear stick in neutral.

Seat in forward position locked forward

Drivers window down, door open

Key in ignition in on position

Very stormy tide was high waves coming over retaining wall

That’s where car went in

Search from Hilary’s to North Mole.

Polish men lived in Glendalough were interview by senior police and car searched, flat searched - they were cleared.

Mr Mokter manager of Merlin group hotel - in a relationship possibly with julie. He was married. He was at the parmelia function. Not clear on whether this relationship was after she broke up with Idris…

Personal opinion of Ron:

Went in water before sun up.

Julie’s favourite beach.

Back seat found washed up Monday morning.

Battery washed up later.

There’s always someone at that beach and no one saw anything.

If back seat washed up she would have too and her things would have.

Oceanographers say that she and her things could have been washed out to sea

Water movement uncertain.

Drivers door was ajar.

-

Car in neutral … went down hill with no one in it? Investigators thought this possible.



Could this have just been an accident?



Mr Gary Jess

Marine safety officer

Northerly prevailing current.

Groynes make diffused sea state?

5 metre swell.

Storm surge.

Objects taken offshore then taken in a circular current.

The items found in the dunes could have originated from the ocean. They were inside a plastic bag.



Since 2004 13 people went missing off the coast who haven’t been found.

Bodies sink then when decomposing they float … also predation to consider.

She could have been in car and dislodged or gotten out of car and carried out sea.



Detective Hamilton

The polish guys were reinvestigated.

Phone calls to family could have been made by one of the polish guys who’s mental health began to decline, the calls stopped when he left the country.

They couldn’t get DNA off the blouse found at kebab shop.

It hasn’t been confirmed that it was a parmelia blouse.

Evidence taken from the vehicle went missing. They have nothing.

They haven’t established whether items found in the dunes belonged to Julie.

They think either murder or suicide.

Spoke to around 300 witnesses.



Coroner summary - Mr Tiller counsel assisting.

Made finding that Julie is deceased.

She will probably have an open finding on cause of death.

 

[BFew]

Mr Mokter manager of Merlin group hotel - in a relationship possibly with julie

The 5 star 400 bed atrium style Merlin Hotel at the Causeway end of St Georges Terrace opened 1984ish
by a Malaysian Groupon. It was sold to Stan Perron in 1986 then ended up in the Hyatt chain.

 

[FTY1]

MISSING (SUSPICIOUS) - JULIE LEANNE CUTLER - PERTH WA - $250,000 Reward - Crime Stoppers Western Australia

DESCRIPTION: 22 years of age at time of disappearance. Light skinned. Dark brown shoulder length hair. 160cm (5 feet 3 inches) tall. Medium build. Green eyes. Last seen wearing a black evening dress with a high collar and gold buttons on the shoulder and black patent leather shoes. Carrying a...

www.crimestopperswa.com.au

'VEHICLE LOCATED:
About 11.45am on Wednesday 22 June 1988, Miss Cutler’s car was located several metres off the shore-line at Cottesloe Beach by a swimmer.'

A winter body-surfer when their feet touched it according to the Post newspaper today.

The crimestoppers info was incomplete.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/05112022.pdf

'Her Fiat car was found when the feet of a winter body-surfer touched it two days later.'

The person that found Julie was a man by the name of John Douglas Mickel. He has since passed away.

 

[skygem]

what coincidence regarding a small student film('Nocturnes') has some sort of relevance

She said police had also investigated any possible links with Ms Cutler and a film that was made by students at the WA Institute of Technology in May 1986 titled Nocturnes, about a suicidal man who drives his car off the Cottesloe groyne.

and another coincidence that IONA collage was of significance for these particular women

Ms Cutler attended Iona Presentation College, the same prestigious western suburbs private school as Ms Glennon and Ms Spiers, and where Ms Rimmer's mother had worked as a receptionist.

Claremont killer declined to be interviewed about 1988 disappearance of Perth woman

Claremont killer Bradley Edwards refused to be interviewed by detectives reinvestigating the mysterious disappearance of a Perth woman in 1988, as a coroner concludes she is dead.

www.abc.net.au

 

[skygem]

interesting to know if these Polish guys actually knew J.C before they commenced work @ the Parmelia Hilton, as in she helped them gain employment after perhaps meeting them first on her european holiday.

 

[zedx]

I was not aware of Julie's (mental health issues/depression). Sadly, when some one decides to take their life the people around them often have no idea. Some keep their intentions well hidden. There are some usual telling signs, but as with my friend, at the time we didnt recognize them as they were quite valid actions - spending less time with us as this was her second attempt at UNI and she really needed to study and pass this time etc. In hind sight would we have recognized these signs? Sadly no.
In past posts it has been suggested Julie left her car unattended in the car park (for what ever reason) and the youths from the party may have pushed it into the water for 'kicks'. If this was the case she may have left her bag etc in the car and walked into the water, with the young people stealing her belongings. IMO this scenario would tie up all the loose ends?

 

[Redacted]

That Polish bloke's name seems familiar for some reason.
Very familiar.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

 

[GreyCrow]

That Polish bloke's name seems familiar for some reason.
Very familiar.

Sent from my SM-G990E using Tapatalk

The one still in Perth? With his face on many signs in front of houses?

 

[GreyCrow]

I was not aware of Julie's (mental health issues/depression). Sadly, when some one decides to take their life the people around them often have no idea. Some keep their intentions well hidden. There are some usual telling signs, but as with my friend, at the time we didnt recognize them as they were quite valid actions - spending less time with us as this was her second attempt at UNI and she really needed to study and pass this time etc. In hind sight would we have recognized these signs? Sadly no.
In past posts it has been suggested Julie left her car unattended in the car park (for what ever reason) and the youths from the party may have pushed it into the water for 'kicks'. If this was the case she may have left her bag etc in the car and walked into the water, with the young people stealing her belongings. IMO this scenario would tie up all the loose ends?

Was there much discussion about the work party ? ie did something happen , did someone misread signals given , were their arguments/breakups etc

The 2 champagne flutes wrapped in a towel suggest a 2 person rendezvous or planned meeting - that may infer state of mind

 

[BFew]

The 2 champagne flutes wrapped in a towel suggest a 2 person rendezvous or planned meeting

They may also have fuelled the possibility that whoever Julie Cutler was going to meet that night, might have organised for someone to kill her, and have organised for the car to have been put into the Ocean at Cottesloe beach to make it look like suicide. Someone that knew of Julie's connections to the film about Cottesloe Beach. Possibly someone married, that Julie was the mistress of, and/or someone that had disclosed something to Julie that they now wanted to make sure was never revealed.

There's a fair chance that this friend she was going to meet, was 20 or more years older than her, and is now deceased.

For those of you who went to the inquest, and/or have access behind the West's paywall to read the 2 November, 2022 article titled

'Julie Cutler inquest to begin Thursday as friends reveal mystery person meeting and foul play fears'​

what else did the West's article, and the inquest reveal about this mystery person?

In the scenario that one of those two champagne flutes was destined to be used for a drink with this mystery person on the night Julies disappearance, and this mystery person was the same one that Julie told her work colleague about (Ms Harper) as they were walking back to their cars after they left the Parmelia Hotel party on the night Julie disappeared.

https://postnewspapers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/05112022.pdf

'In a strange twist, Deputy State Coroner Sarah Linton revealed in court that a friend of Ms Cutler’s had starred in a short film that depicted a car being driven into the ocean at Cottesloe Beach in an act of suicide. Ms Cutler and the friend were both involved in university theatre at the WA Institute of Technology – now Curtin University – at the time. Ms Marr said she was shocked when she learned of the film. “That really gave me pause to think,” she said.'

'“As they walked to their cars, Julie told Ms Harper she was going to see a friend. “She wouldn’t reveal the person’s identity and said it was a secret.”'

 

[BFew]

Just for the record though, I don't think there was ever any suggestions made in this thread of an inside job, or criticisms of the police around this case.

Wouldn't be surprised if I or others, posted (in here) criticism of WA Police for reportedly losing/destroying evidence/artefacts for this case.

So if I didn't, I'm happy to do it now.

****ing idiots for losing or carelessly destroying crime evidence/artefacts in this or any other historical crime cases.

 

[Kurve]

Wouldn't be surprised if I or others, posted (in here) criticism of WA Police for reportedly losing/destroying evidence/artefacts for this case.

So if I didn't, I'm happy to do it now.

******* idiots for losing or carelessly destroying crime evidence/artefacts in this or any other historical crime cases.

Oh yeah now I remember. There was some discussion about the handbag found in the sand being destroyed but that was as it wasn't believed to be Julie's.

 

[BFew]

From the ABC this morning on the destroyed or lost evidence and relating this to the importance of retaining historical evidence for forensic/DNA testing in the Claremont Serial Killer case.

How police let key pieces of evidence slip through their fingers after Julie Cutler vanished without a trace

A police investigation into the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler was hampered by lost evidence that could have yielded crucial clues into the suspected death of the bubbly 22-year-old.

www.abc.net.au

'Julie Cutler inquest hears how destroyed and lost evidence hampered investigation into her baffling disappearance​

By Andrea Mayes
Posted 5h ago5 hours ago, updated 5m ago'
...
'The items police destroyed
Then, in 1996, a number of items were found in a sand dune, about one kilometre south of where Ms Cutler’s Fiat was found at Cottesloe.

Those items included a 1988 diary — and Ms Cutler was known to be an avid diary writer — as well as a Westpac cheque book holder, the same bank Ms Cutler used.

However, police ruled out the items as being relevant to the case and they were subsequently destroyed.

So too was much of the other physical evidence linked to the case, including Ms Cutler’s car and the items it contained.

Other items were also missing by the time police reopened the case in 2017, including all of the original witness statements taken by police in 1988, meaning Detective Inspector Gailene Hamilton — who spearheaded the new inquiry — was forced to rely largely on photos of exhibits, rather than the physical items themselves.'

Bradley Edwards and the importance of DNA​

The benefit of 34 years’ of hindsight notwithstanding, it is hard to understand how police could let such evidence slip away.

The trial of Claremont killer Bradley Edwards in 2020 showed only too clearly the value of keeping even the tiniest scraps of potential evidence.

In the late 1980s, the science of DNA was only beginning to be understood in relation to evidence in criminal matters, but some detectives were ahead of the curve.

If investigators hadn’t carefully stored a silk kimono obtained from a crime scene in 1988, from which Edwards’s DNA would ultimately be extracted almost three decades later, it is likely that he would still be a free man.

If Pathwest scientists hadn’t held onto miniscule scrapings taken from underneath the fingernails of 27-year-old Ciara Glennon — whom Edwards brutally murdered — scrapings that were so tiny as to be practically invisible to the human eye, it is almost certain Edwards would not have been found guilty of her killing.

Yet these seemingly random or useless items proved to be absolutely crucial to a case that had laid dormant for decades, until a 2016 cold case review finally connected some of the dots.'
...
'Sadly, the 2017-2018 review of Ms Cutler’s case appeared to come too late.

Too late to use modern forensic techniques to examine old evidence, too late to use advanced DNA testing to see if any biological material could be extracted from the few physical items that were, or might have been, connected to the case, because such items no longer existed.'

 

[FTY1]

Oh yeah now I remember. There was some discussion about the handbag found in the sand being destroyed but that was as it wasn't believed to be Julie's.

The evidence from inside the car was also missing, maybe not destroyed. This was only mentioned in the inquest.

 

[BFew]

Oh yeah now I remember. There was some discussion about the handbag found in the sand being destroyed but that was as it wasn't believed to be Julie's.

It wasn't just the handbag.

The below from ABC implies (rightly or wrongly) that the car and all it's belongings were all destroyed (not just missing).

were subsequently destroyed.

So too was much of the other physical evidence linked to the case, including Ms Cutler’s car and the items it contained.

Other items were also missing by the time police reopened the case in 2017, including all of the original witness statements taken by police in 1988, meaning Detective Inspector Gailene Hamilton — who spearheaded the new inquiry — was forced to rely largely on photos of exhibits, rather than the physical items themselves.'

 

[Kurve]

The evidence from inside the car was also missing, maybe not destroyed. This was only mentioned in the inquest.

The champagne flutes and the cigarette butts out of the ashtray?

 

[BFew]

The champagne flutes and the cigarette butts out of the ashtray?

The butts were reported to be cigarette filters of a brand she did not smoke.

A few hairs on the seat covers too.

Julie Cutler inquest paints picture of vivacious and bubbly young woman hurting after relationship break-up

The first day of an inquest into the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler reveals plenty of new information, but few answers about what happened to her when she vanished without a trace after leaving a work party.

www.abc.net.au

'Julie Cutler inquest throws up more questions than answers over 1988 disappearance of Perth woman​

Posted Yesterday at 8:08am, updated Yesterday at 9:57am'

'Badly damaged and floating upside down, the car was retrieved by police, who found her driver's licence and RAC papers inside, as well as two champagne flutes of the kind used at the Parmelia Hilton hotel wrapped in a tea towel.

There were cigarette butts in the ashtray, and a few hairs on one of the seat covers – but that was about it.'

A young woman vanishes after leaving a work party, her car found in the sea. 34 years on, there are no answers

Julie Cutler disappeared in mysterious circumstances in 1988 after visiting a high-end nightclub. It's one of Perth's most baffling mysteries, but it's hoped an inquest can shed light on the decades-old case.

www.abc.net.au

'Julie Cutler inquest to probe mystery disappearance of Perth woman 34 years ago​

By Andrea Mayes
Posted Mon 31 Oct 2022 at 8:05am

The only things police found inside it were four champagne flutes bearing Hilton hotel insignia, and a number of cigarette butts, which according to reports, were not the brand Ms Cutler usually smoked.'

 

[FTY1]

The champagne flutes and the cigarette butts out of the ashtray?

The champagne flutes and the cigarette butts out of the ashtray?

From BFew's article.

"However, police ruled out the items as being relevant to the case and they were subsequently destroyed.

So too was much of the other physical evidence linked to the case, including Ms Cutler’s car and the items it contained.

Other items were also missing by the time police reopened the case in 2017, including all of the original witness statements taken by police in 1988, meaning Detective Inspector Gailene Hamilton — who spearheaded the new inquiry — was forced to rely largely on photos of exhibits, rather than the physical items themselves."

How police let key pieces of evidence slip through their fingers after Julie Cutler vanished without a trace

A police investigation into the 1988 disappearance of Julie Cutler was hampered by lost evidence that could have yielded crucial clues into the suspected death of the bubbly 22-year-old.

www.abc.net.au