Just not footy!

[morell]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Yes. You have no idea of relevant histories, so therefore, your comments are akin to waving a red rag at a bull.
It says a lot about the personality of people who feel so inadequate in their lives that their only way to bolster their sense of self worth is to beat up on someone continually on an internet forum. Bears no small resemblance to primary school really, where the kid with freckles, glasses, from a poverty affected family and couldnt afford new clothes, the smallest kid in the class, or anyone else who had a weakness that could be exploited - was ostracised and / or bullied.
It's time some people round here grew up and started to behave like mature adults.

Alright, fair enough, I'll stay out of it.

It’s just annoying when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

In other words, what you want me to say is that because we won a game, the sun shines out his arse?

Didn't I write that I was not asking you to call him the messiah!

Criticism of a coach and his coaching style is not vitriol.
Personal abuse, and unwarranted remarks aimed at an individual, and / or their persona, is vitriol.
Show me where I have levelled any personal remarks about the man himself as opposed to his lack of ability to coach the side and lack of people skills.
Unless of course, you want to point to my reference to him as a ' goose ' . In which case, I think you'd be a little bit hypersensitive.

Vitriol:- "Something highly caustic, or severe in it's effects, as criticism"

And no I'm not referring to you calling him a goose but, just sticking to "personal abuse and unwarranted remarks", I would include calling him a megalomaniac and a bully.

 

[shaz63]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Alright, fair enough, I'll stay out of it.

It’s just annoying for when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments

Please tell that to the ones that continually decide to attack us and get away with it whilst we will receive pms telling us to stop the crap.

We are all here to discuss our team but some posters feel the need to pick the living crap out of them no matter what is said.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

It’s just annoying for when good football threads get hijacked by personal arguments

I totally agree with you.
This club is in the middle of a period where healthy debate is needed, and where discussion should be strident and ree flowing on both sides.
But as we see with the coach stay or go debate - sadly, the majority of those on the side of keeping Williams have some crazy idea that any ideas to the contraty are akin to an act of treason against the club. Why? Because he's Fos' son? So what?

As for the question of personal arguments on the threads, well, unfortunately it is a mandate not too dissimilar to the AFL tribunal, or the general everyday legal system that rules BF.
The perpetrator of an incident gets off scot free, whilst the retaliator wears the brunt of the ruling body's wrath.
Whilever this ridiculous mandate exists, the current state of affairs will remain, I'm afraid.

 

[shaz63]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

I think you've misunderstood me Shaz. I saw the post, so did others, I didn't like it and I made my feelings known in a post of my of my own. The mods in the meantime removed the post and, as I just said they should have done so too. I'm exactly in agreement with you on this one and you did the right thing reporting the post.

Cheers for that Toots. Northbouy should be warned for posting that sort of stuff on any board but unfortunatly, seems to only have them deleted as he will find where FSC is and post the same comments everytime.

 

[morell]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Please tell that to the ones that continually decide to attack us and get away with it whilst we will receive pms telling us to stop the crap.

We are all here to discuss our team but some posters feel the need to pick the living crap out of them no matter what is said.

As a completely neutral observer, this personal vendetta that the two sides have is most definitely a two way street. It seems like one side puts a little bait out, then the other comes in waaay over the top, then the other side cry's foul. I blame both the baiter and the responder. If it didn’t keep ruining good football threads it would be quite humorous.

This is the last post I will make on this matter.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

But as we see with the coach stay or go debate - sadly, the majority of those on the side of keeping Williams have some crazy idea that any ideas to the contraty are akin to an act of treason against the club. Why? Because he's Fos' son? So what?

You don't think you're mildly exaggerating here? I would estimate that about as many would hold this opinion as the other exteme, i.e. sack Choco regardless of what happens. I hold neither opinion, as both are ridiculous.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Didn't I write that I was not asking you to call him the messiah!
Vitriol:- "Something highly caustic, or severe in it's effects, as criticism"

And no I'm not referring to you calling him a goose but, just sticking to "personal abuse and unwarranted remarks", I would include calling him a megalomaniac and a bully.

In the legal profession, there is a term ' qualified privilege ' which, although I am not qualified in the field of law, I have enough knowledge to understand that this term covers an opinion reasonably formed on the basis of observation of factual physical evidence.
To wit - my reference to Mark Williams as a ' megalomaniac ' and a ' bully' is quite legitimate. I have observed the nervousness and gunshy body language of several of our players over a lengthy period and assessed , from other evidence and observations, that this is largely caused by Williams' treatment of them.
Also, the way in which WIlliams ascended to the coaching role and the way he seems to have the entire board under his thumb, allows the term ' megalomaniac ' to fall under qualified privilege.
The key point here is that this is all factual physical evidence

Against that, your snide ' supercoach ' remark, the consensus held by you and a few others that I am an ' arrogant pr ick ' and remarks made about other such lovely things as evidenced with Northbhoy et all, are nothing but personal abuse, as none of you know me in person.

And the one person of your little group who does - or more accurately has briefly met me once or twice - can't be taken seriously anyway.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Cheers for that Toots. Northbouy should be warned for posting that sort of stuff on any board but unfortunatly, seems to only have them deleted as he will find where FSC is and post the same comments everytime.

No, Northbhoy should have been banned. Immediately. No questions asked.
The same goes for anyone who attacks an individual in such a gutless and insensitive manner on such a subject.

 

[shaz63]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

No, Northbhoy should have been banned. Immediately. No questions asked.
The same goes for anyone who attacks an individual in such a gutless and insensitive manner on such a subject.

Sorry, thats what I meant.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

You don't think you're mildly exaggerating here? I would estimate that about as many would hold this opinion as the other exteme, i.e. sack Choco regardless of what happens. I hold neither opinion, as both are ridiculous.

read any post by Portentous, or wharfie19870, or Magpiespower, then come back and tell me if I'm exaggerating.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

read any post by Portentous, or wharfie19870, or Magpiespower, then come back and tell me if I'm exaggerating.

So that makes three people. The same amount of people in the "sack Choco regardless" brigade. What is your point?

Also for the purpose of giving your argument some fabric, please point me to some posts where they liken anti-Choco speak as akin to "treason".

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

So that makes three people. The same amount of people in the "sack Choco" brigade. What is your point?

Also for the purpose of giving your argument some fabric, please point me to some posts where they liken anti-Choco speak as akin to "treason".

The point is quite simple.
Those in the ' sack Choco ' corner don't dish out personal abuse to those who question their opinion, despite being constantly accused of disloyalty to the club and having no football savvy.
As opposed to the constant stream of venomous twaddle emanating from the Williams arse lickers whenever His Lordship is brought to account for his glaringly obvious shortcomings as an AFL coach.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

You made the assertion, the onus is on you to drum up some proof. Not gloss over your claim with some more and more hyperbole.

Further, you complain about receiving personal abuse and then call people 'Williams arse lickers' in the very same post. I don't think there is much point continuing this discussion with you.

Obviously, regardless of the merits of your opinion, it would be preferable if you weren't subject to personal abuse. But you have reapt what you've sown to some degree (see: "Williams arse lickers").

 

[shaz63]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

And before any of you start on us again, questions are being asked so we are replying.

If we were not constantly hassled by the same posters on here time and time again, the hijacking wouldnt continue.

So before you start blaming the same ones for responding, take a good hard look at the ones that are starting by posting smart arse comments and questions to begin with.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

In the legal profession, there is a term ' qualified privilege ' which, although I am not qualified in the field of law, I have enough knowledge to understand that this term covers an opinion reasonably formed on the basis of observation of factual physical evidence.
To wit - my reference to Mark Williams as a ' megalomaniac ' and a ' bully' is quite legitimate. I have observed the nervousness and gunshy body language of several of our players over a lengthy period and assessed , from other evidence and observations, that this is largely caused by Williams' treatment of them.
Also, the way in which WIlliams ascended to the coaching role and the way he seems to have the entire board under his thumb, allows the term ' megalomaniac ' to fall under qualified privilege.
The key point here is that this is all factual physical evidence

You asked me for instances of personal abuse. I've given you a couple of quick ones. Now you're seeking to justify them.

Getting back to my initial query I was asking how last night's performance could come about in light of your previous criticism. I wouldn't call Danyle Pearce's play "gunshy". He has a crack and makes mistakes. You don't see him get dragged. We saw a torpedo last night which sides would go for an entire year without doing because coaches don't like it. Williams is responsible when White and Thurstans play poorly but when they have a good game he gets no credit. The young guys last night played with freedom and initiative which you wouldn't expect from newbies coached by a bullying, megalomaniacal coach who is likely to humiliate them by sending them back to the SANFL which has been amongst your accusations.

I'm happy to acknowledge that Choco can do things better, I'm happy to consider a different coach but attacking the guy in every possible way and to the extent that he gets no credit for a flag is not tenable. Particularly when in the process our first AFL flag gets counted as lucky.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

But you have reapt what you've sown to some degree (see: "Williams arse lickers").

Garbage.
Please point out to me where my comment about ' Williams arse lickers ' contains any reference to an individual poster or any inkling that it was aimed at one particular identity.
Methinks you're a bit ignorant as to the meaning of ' personal abuse ' .

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

You asked me for instances of personal abuse. I've given you a couple of quick ones. Now you're seeking to justify them.

Not at all. What I set out to do was, in fact, expose the difference between personal abuse for the sake of it, and valid criticisms which can be confused with personal abuse. The gulf between the two terms is quite wide.

Getting back to my initial query I was asking how last night's performance could come about in light of your previous criticism. I wouldn't call Danyle Pearce's play "gunshy". He has a crack and makes mistakes. You don't see him get dragged. We saw a torpedo last night which sides would go for an entire year without doing because coaches don't like it. Williams is responsible when White and Thurstans play poorly but when they have a good game he gets no credit. The young guys last night played with freedom and initiative which you wouldn't expect from newbies coached by a bullying, megalomaniacal coach who is likely to humiliate them by sending them back to the SANFL which has been amongst your accusations.

Ever stopped to consider maybe he has been told he has 4 weeks to improve the results, or pack his bags?
Don't eveh try to take a crack at me about White and Thurstans. Those two players have been horribly mismanaged, and anyone who can't see that is a fool. End of story.
Maybe last night he did as he should have done two damn years ago and told the kids to just get out there and mix it up, and enjoy their footy, and to hell with the team rules.
Who knows. But if it gets backed up with another insipid, p iss weak effort next week, then you would have to start thinking.

I'm happy to acknowledge that Choco can do things better, I'm happy to consider a different coach but attacking the guy in every possible way and to the extent that he gets no credit for a flag is not tenable. Particularly when in the process our first AFL flag gets counted as lucky.

Jesus H Christ, you're worse than my Weimaraner puppy with a bone, and she makes short work of them.
The fact I give him minimal credit for the flag is based on several factors. The leadership group in 04 was predominantly consisted of Cahill protoges, for one thing. He undid a lot of Cahill's early good work in managing and trimming the fat off the list and elevated a lot of players who really should have been delisted early.
The dip in 2000, whilst due mainly to injuries to key players, was also due to the same sort of rubbish gameplan we see now. As was the poor finish to 1999, a year where we should have achieved a much higher finish.
As for the luck of the flag, it is my honest belief Geelong were in a better position to take us than Brisbane. Moot point, agreed.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Garbage.
Please point out to me where my comment about ' Williams arse lickers ' contains any reference to an individual poster or any inkling that it was aimed at one particular identity.

Well, you just named three of them.

Also, in regards to this:

Those in the ' sack Choco ' corner don't dish out personal abuse to those who question their opinion, despite being constantly accused of disloyalty to the club and having no football savvy.

You didn't seem gunshy about accusing people of blind loyalty and unable to make objective opinions about Choco - see: arse lickers.

And finally, if there really has been some serious personal abuse towards you, that would be unfortunate. I haven't really seen it though, which would indicate to me that the mods must be doing at least a reasonable job of cleaning that up.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Not at all. What I set out to do was, in fact, expose the difference between personal abuse for the sake of it, and valid criticisms which can be confused with personal abuse. The gulf between the two terms is quite wide.

You've failed to give Williams credit where it is due (as an aside, everyone is aware some of his shortcomings and previous failures). People don't call you out for the sake of it, when we win like we did last night, you really don't give them any options.

 

[Frank Spencer Clone]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Well, you just named three of them.

Not directly in reference to the term ' arse lickers, I didn't.

You didn't seem gunshy about accusing people of blind loyalty and unable to make objective opinions about Choco - see: arse lickers.

Fair call, but the way some people carry on, it appears as if they don't use a lot of objective thinking.

And finally, if there really has been some serious personal abuse towards you, that would be unfortunate. I haven't really seen it though, which would indicate to me that the mods must be doing at least a reasonable job of cleaning that up.

What's your definition of serious personal abuse I wonder?

 

[gbear]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

Heya Gbear. Where ya been?

Can't stop grinning right now lol.

I have been around, however my time is being significantly occupied with full time uni and part time work this year. Can't wait to complete my degree and have more time on my hands. Hopefully there will be less Sunday games and more Saturday night games next season so I can get along to the games.

 

[gbear]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

To both you and GBear. One game proves nothing. For once the team came out and played some decent football not this constant ******** game that he has been instructing them to play.

We will go back and play the chippy chippy crap game again again and be thrashed by our cross town rivals and the young guys will have the confidence knocked out of them again.

You both need a huge reality check. Choco is not the coach to take us to a premiership.

I don't think I need a reality check and that is all I am going to say on the issue. I trust that the board has the interests of the club at heart and if the youngsters continue to be developed as they are currently I will support the decisions of the board.

 

[Portmanteau]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

What's your definition of serious personal abuse I wonder?

Something that makes reference to your person completely out of context with football/internet. Obviously some of you folks know eachother, so if personal barbs are used in arguments on here, it's not really on.

Conversely, if the abuse you refer to is just a bit of back-and-forth purely in this context, for example calling someone's argument or post moronic et cetera (I think all of us have done this, here and elsewhere), I think anyone throwing a tanty over that is a bit precious.

 

[shaz63]

Re: Predictions: Port vs Bulldogs

I don't think I need a reality check and that is all I am going to say on the issue. I trust that the board has the interests of the club at heart and if the youngsters continue to be developed as they are currently I will support the decisions of the board.

So when they see the light and get rid of Choco you will agree with them??? Something tells me that is a crock of you know what!!!!!!!!