Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[Docker82]

Brent Montgomery.

Graham doesn’t want it.

Know that but he's the only one that hasn't had a valid excuse for pulling out of the race (family, future gig etc).

Pretty sure if West Coast were a gun squad they'd be some more interest from those that pulled out but the strength of their squad isn't the only factor.

 

[nurries]

Know that but he's the only one that hasn't had a valid excuse for pulling out of the race (family, future gig etc).

Pretty sure if West Coast were a gun squad they'd be some more interest from those that pulled out but the strength of their squad isn't the only factor.

The Coaches also know what the Perth media is like. They already have had 4 years out of the finals so they wont get much of a honeymoon period for the press.

 

[Geoff]

A new coach is not the answer.


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[wakojako]

I predicted on BigFooty we would finish 9/10th this season based on the experience of the list. Honestly though, our form surprised me this year and we should have locked in a finals spot. No one saw the emergence of Treacy which really rocketed us forward.

I don't think it's all doom and gloom but there are warning signs for JLo. I don't think it's a coincidence that JLo's contract and Scott's contract both end in 2025. I would speculate that the club is waiting to see how the 2025 season turns out.

 

[Outshined]

The end to the season has been disastrous bar a last minute miracle on Sunday. Even then, ending up 7th or 8th with the prospect of facing a team like Brisbane away in an EF is pretty far removed from where it looked like we were heading 3 weeks ago.

In saying that and pushing the disillusionment to the side for a sec...he's not going anywhere and tbh I wouldn't be sacking him just yet either. The list profile is still pretty green (2nd least experienced side of the round I think), the team's spine has been missing for a month and it's been a season of incredibly fine margins excluding two shocking performances. Every team has injuries and the consistent inability to close out a game is a black mark against the coaching staff, but there have been certain important steps forward (e.g., forward line efficiency) which are being somewhat masked by this string of close losses.

For me, trying to make sense of everything to this point results in a pretty similar sentiment to a fair few others on here. I'm ok with retaining Longmuir for 2025 but it has to be a do or die season for him. Comparisons between him and Hardwick are occasionally floated around here but even though Hardwick was still a couple of years away from his first flag when he coached his 6th season, the Tigers managed to finish 5th. That pressure on JL is magnified further if Brierty and Walls add Bolton to the squad too. There's going to be natural growth and development for many players but that doesn't mean it'll automatically translate to better performances. He can't afford to continue exhibiting this rigidity with selection, or so consistently have us starting and finishing games poorly.

 

[Joao]

The end to the season has been disastrous bar a last minute miracle on Sunday. Even then, ending up 7th or 8th with the prospect of facing a team like Brisbane away in an EF is pretty far removed from where it looked like we were heading 3 weeks ago.

In saying that and pushing the disillusionment to the side for a sec...he's not going anywhere and tbh I wouldn't be sacking him just yet either. The list profile is still pretty green (2nd least experienced side of the round I think), the team's spine has been missing for a month and it's been a season of incredibly fine margins excluding two shocking performances. Every team has injuries and the consistent inability to close out a game is a black mark against the coaching staff, but there have been certain important steps forward (e.g., forward line efficiency) which are being somewhat masked by this string of close losses.
For me, trying to make sense of everything to this point results in a pretty similar sentiment to a fair few others on here. I'm ok with retaining Longmuir for 2025 but it has to be a do or die season for him. Comparisons between him and Hardwick are occasionally floated around here but even though Hardwick was still a couple of years away from his first flag when he coached his 6th season, the Tigers still managed to finish 5th.

That pressure on JL is magnified further if Brierty and Walls add Bolton to the squad too. There's going to be natural growth and development in the squad but that doesn't mean it'll automatically translate to better performances. He can't afford to continue exhibiting this rigidity with selection, or so consistently have us starting and finishing games poorly.

I think a big issue we have is that so many of our most experienced are beige at best, or shouldn't be in the team at worst. Headed by the fact Sonny and Fyfe are half the players they used to be. It's no good having the experience to know what to do in a close game if your body won't physically let you do it.

Our most experienced players:

Walters 33
Fyfe 32
Tabs 31
O'Meara 30
AP 29
Aish 28

Who's season are you giving a tick to? AP prior to injury was great. Walters looks done. Fyfe has given what he has, which isn't much beyond a big body at stoppage. JoM and Aish had patches in the year where they were good but ordinary outside that with Aish not even in the team anymore. Tabs is done.

So of the 6, if you give JoM and Fyfe half marks, we have 2/6 of our oldest players contributing.

Then you have our other two most experienced KPPs:

Cox
Darcy

Who have barely played and when they have played, they're both clearly unfit and going at 70%.



We're doing everything off the back of blokes 25 and under, because outside of AP, we're getting so little out of blokes older than that. Compare that to literally ever top 8 side (even the Hawks), who all get plenty out of players 28+.

It really shouldn't be a surprise we're getting shown up for experience.

 

[nurries]

Thats why we need to spend some draft capital to get in Bolton and Baker. 26 & 27 next season, right in the sweet spot of age/experience. I think we can do it with still pick 10 in the bank for the best available youngster.

 

[Joao]

Thats why we need to spend some draft capital to get in Bolton and Baker. 26 & 27 next season, right in the sweet spot of age/experience. I think we can do it with still pick 10 in the bank for the best available youngster.

The only reason I'm cool on Baker is the fact I'd rather save the cap space for Chad next year.

 

[nurries]

The only reason I'm cool on Baker is the fact I' rather save the cap space for Chad next year.

If Warner is a goer, i agree 100%. He is the midfielder we need

 

[Duz97]

Laughable 3 weeks ago JL was a genius and the best coach now he needs to be sacked. We lost our 3 most important players at the wrong time. JL gets next year and if he fails then sack him but I believe we finish top 2-3 next year. He’s the right man for the job

 

[Outshined]

I think a big issue we have is that so many of our most experienced are beige at best, or shouldn't be in the team at worst. Headed by the fact Sonny and Fyfe are half the players they used to be. It's no good having the experience to know what to do in a close game if your body won't physically let you do it.

Our most experienced players:

Walters 33
Fyfe 32
Tabs 31
O'Meara 30
AP 29
Aish 28

Who's season are you giving a tick to? AP prior to injury was great. Walters looks done. Fyfe has given what he has, which isn't much beyond a big body at stoppage. JoM and Aish had patches in the year where they were good but ordinary outside that with Aish not even in the team anymore. Tabs is done.

So of the 6, if you give JoM and Fyfe half marks, we have 2/6 of our oldest players contributing.

Then you have our other two most experienced KPPs:

Cox
Darcy

Who have barely played and when they have played, they're both clearly unfit and going at 70%.



We're doing everything off the back of blokes 25 and under, because outside of AP, we're getting so little out of blokes older than that. Compare that to literally ever top 8 side (even the Hawks), who all get plenty out of players 28+.

It really shouldn't be a surprise we're getting shown up for experience.

Yeah this is a good point and just emphasises the list imbalance which has lead to us consistently fielding young, inexperienced sides. I was really keen on O'Meara because I thought he'd add some depth to the 26-30 bracket but he's been hit and miss at best. Aish has admittedly struggled but IMO he's still a good player who's lacking a clearly defined best position atm.

If you go by the loose rule that 100-150 games is where a player starts to hit their prime, we have Darcy, Cox, Serong, Brayshaw, Ryan, Clark and Pearce all roughly in that zone. Young, Jackson, Switkowski, Frederick and Banfield aren't far off either.
That still leaves a significant chunk of our best 25 next season who are well in the development phase. Whether you think it's fair or not, he's going to have to continue to improve as a coach to get us into the top 6 at a minimum.

 

[Joao]

Yeah this is a good point and just emphasises the list imbalance which has lead to us consistently fielding young, inexperienced sides. I was really keen on O'Meara because I thought he'd add some depth to the 26-30 bracket but he's been hit and miss at best. Aish has admittedly struggled but IMO he's still a good player who's lacking a clearly defined best position atm.

If you go by the loose rule that 100-150 games is where a player starts to hit their prime, we have Darcy, Cox, Serong, Brayshaw, Ryan, Clark and Pearce all roughly in that zone. Young, Switkowski, Frederick and Banfield aren't far off either.
That still leaves a significant chunk of our best 25 next season who are well in the development phase. Whether you think it's fair or not, he's going to have to continue to improve as a coach to get us into the top 6 at a minimum.

I think all we need to do is keep the experienced players out there next year. They are so important to us because we have so few good ones. Bottling 50/50s (close games) is all that separates us from "he can't coach" and "the lid is off".

I'm not even joking, if we were just 3-1-4 instead of 1-1-6 in games under 13 points, we're outright 4th and people are booking flights.

 

[E Shed]

How about thinking outside the square & playing Aish forward? At least he has a functioning football brain unlike Banfield currently. Or play O’Meara as a forward & give NOD his wing back waxing with Johnson inside at center clearance.

 

[Joao]

How about thinking outside the square & playing Aish forward? At least he has a functioning football brain unlike Banfield currently. Or play O’Meara as a forward & give NOD his wing back waxing with Johnson inside at center clearance.

I definitely want NoD on the wing.

I think JoM and Aish are too slow to be permanently forward. Although, it might work ok (1 of them) with Bolton in the team.

I think in spite of my bitching and moaning about experience, I hope that Simpson smashes his 2nd pre-season and stakes his claim. His lack of experience can be made up for a little bit with speed and ability to execute basic skills.

 

[dont bowl there]

Laughable 3 weeks ago JL was a genius and the best coach now he needs to be sacked. We lost our 3 most important players at the wrong time. JL gets next year and if he fails then sack him but I believe we finish top 2-3 next year. He’s the right man for the job

I think it's fair for people to have concerns if we miss finals again this year. 90% of people agree that he should get 2025 but if we don't at least finish in the top 6 he should be packing his bags. My worry is that the talent at the club is so high that simply making finals isn't good enough but it will be for the club.

 

[Outshined]

I think all we need to do is keep the experienced players out there next year. They are so important to us because we have so few good ones. Bottling 50/50s (close games) is all that separates us from "he can't coach" and "the lid is off".

I'm not even joking, if we were just 3-4-1 instead of 1-1-6 in games under 13 points, we're outright 4th and people are booking flights.

Which is also why I'm careful not to suggest he needs to "fix everything" or that he's flat out not good enough. His messaging clearly resonates with the players for the most part and we've also played far more offensively-minded football for prolonged stretches this season. Sides will always have their flaws and idiosyncrasies. Sydney are terrible starters too but they typically manage to do enough else right that it isn't as big of a hit to the W column. The Bulldogs are just as likely as us to fumble an apparently easy game.

It may be a bit of a false comparison given how insane this season has been but if he manages to clean up just one or two of the perennial issues we've had this season, I'm pretty confident we'll be sitting comfortably this time next year. Unfortunately though, 1 finals series from 5 attempts means the onus really is on him to find a way to win more often than not.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

I think it's fair for people to have concerns if we miss finals again this year. 90% of people agree that he should get 2025 but if we don't at least finish in the top 6 he should be packing his bags. My worry is that the talent at the club is so high that simply making finals isn't good enough but it will be for the club.

There is talent at this club but there are a few holes to plug & further development needed.

We need a classy small forward, that’s glaring.

We need at least 2 more mids. Sharp has done ok on one wing but the other wing is not settled yet.
Hopefully NOD settles into that role.

We are 1 break the lines mid short, Young, Brayshaw & Serong are carrying too much of the workload. We don’t have one coming through, our best 2nd tier mids are workhorses in Johnson, Erasmus & Brodie. Switta gives us run when in there but he doesn’t have the tank & is intermittent in his output.

Warner is the obvious one to compliment our mid group.

Our key forwards are only just getting started with Treacy just showing what he can do this year, Jye is still well below his best & Jackson is inconsistent but showed glimpses.

They will be amazing the more games they play & train together & gain further experience.

Our back up key forwards are handy but also young & inexperienced.

Our key backs have been tested but largely effective. The back ups are young & still learning the game.

Having McDonald & Cox out for most of the year was difficult & then to lose Pearce was a disaster because of that. Draper will be a very good player, but has a long way to go in regards to belief & consistency.

We have talent, our consistency this year was awesome with just quarters letting us down & 2 games to note. The rest we were pretty good & playing good footy.

Coaching wise, the coaching group made errors on & off the field. But as a whole had a pretty good year with a definite improvement in tactics & general demeanour. They have to learn like everyone else but with Graham knocking back WC interest shows they are committed.

 

[dockerfemme]

Which is also why I'm careful not to suggest he needs to "fix everything" or that he's flat out not good enough. His messaging clearly resonates with the players for the most part and we've also played far more offensively-minded football for prolonged stretches this season. Sides will always have their flaws and idiosyncrasies. Sydney are terrible starters too but they typically manage to do enough else right that it isn't as big of a hit to the W column. The Bulldogs are just as likely as us to fumble an apparently easy game.

It may be a bit of a false comparison given how insane this season has been but if he manages to clean up just one or two of the perennial issues we've had this season, I'm pretty confident we'll be sitting comfortably this time next year. Unfortunately though, 1 finals series from 5 attempts means the onus really is on him to find a way to win more often than not.

I agree with you about cleaning up 1 or 2 perennial issues.

One thing that needs cleaning up is the poor starts. Being 3 or 4 goals down by the 20 minute mark of the first quarter in almost every challenging game is just hard to fathom and makes our life so difficult.

The second thing that I find frustrating is the apparent conservatism in selection. Last year it was patently obvious that we needed a bigger body in the midfield and it was not until the last 5 games that we put Hayden Young there. If we had performed across the season as we did in our last 5 games we would have had a significantly better season. This year we have had either a half fit Darcy or Jackson as our number 1 ruckman in a lot of games and that has been a poor outcome in a lot of games imho. Meanwhile we had Reidy playing good footy in the WAFL. In overall terms Reidy was no better than passable on the weekend but maintaining our forward structure and allowing Jackson to ruck in small bursts looked a lot better to me than other options we have seen over the past few weeks. I don’t think it should have taken so long to try this.

The complete lack of nous in the use of the sub is also selection conservatism.

I disagree a bit about coughing up close games. The Essendon one was diabolical but I think Geelong and GWS had our measure, the Carlton one the umps took out of our hands by being unable to see a ball deviate 90 degrees off Aish and I don’t really remember the Port one too clearly. We pinched the Collingwood draw and didn’t really deserve it.

Anyway I am okay with Longmuir getting next year to address some issues but I think it is last chance.

 

[MadEyeEmmy]

I’m still on the JL train (which surprises nobody I’m sure). We’re a few injuries and a gun small forward away.

Far out though, the last few weeks have left me feeling flat. Not because we outright sucked, just from letting opportunities slip through our fingers. The Essendon and Geelong games really hurt.

I just know we are better than a lot of teams in the 8. If we by some miracle made it through and got AP and Treacy back (and maybe Darcy though he looks cooked) then I think we could at least make a semi final.

But it’s the hope that kills you.

 

[Cam Payne]

Given we're -55 tackles in the last 3 weeks, I wonder what the coach is concentrating players energies on.

 

[Raz]

Given we're -55 tackles in the last 3 weeks, I wonder what the coach is concentrating players energies on.

waving to the FANS mostly .

Meet and greet at the Clubs after the games .

 

[Duz97]

I think it's fair for people to have concerns if we miss finals again this year. 90% of people agree that he should get 2025 but if we don't at least finish in the top 6 he should be packing his bags. My worry is that the talent at the club is so high that simply making finals isn't good enough but it will be for the club.

Goal posts have changed since the start of the year tho. Everyone just wanted to compete for finals and any other year with 50-54 points we make it just been absolutely stiff to miss out

 

[MadMundy]

Had a long thought about it, still on the Longmuir train, still think he's a good coach, still think he's the man to take us to the promised land, we can discuss however we like how he has the closed off demeanour on camera, I couldn't give a shit how he acts on camera, I was listening to the most recent Purple Reign episode and they made a good point, the Longmuir you get on the camera is completely different to the one you see in the locker rooms, and considering they're usually let into the locker rooms, I'm more inclined to believe them.

Think some of the vitriol towards he and a few members of our team has been a little too harsh this week (I'm guilty of it myself)

 

[Raz]

Had a long thought about it, still on the Longmuir train, still think he's a good coach, still think he's the man to take us to the promised land, we can discuss however we like how he has the closed off demeanour on camera, I couldn't give a shit how he acts on camera, I was listening to the most recent Purple Reign episode and they made a good point, the Longmuir you get on the camera is completely different to the one you see in the locker rooms, and considering they're usually let into the locker rooms, I'm more inclined to believe them.

Think some of the vitriol towards he and a few members of our team has been a little too harsh this week (I'm guilty of it myself)

agree i care nothing for how he does PREss conferences. I only want to see us winning

Nothing esle matters.

Dont carre if we have the best ENVIRONMENTAL record (yes big news Fremantle websites how both men and ladied teams have a player handling those issues)

WE jsut need to win... and win and win

 

[MadMundy]

agree i care nothing for how he does PREss conferences. I only want to see us winning

Nothing esle matters.

Dont carre if we have the best ENVIRONMENTAL record (yes big news Fremantle websites how both men and ladied teams have a player handling those issues)

WE jsut need to win... and win and win

We have the talent and the team to do it, the team we have is very good, it just needs to be healthy and they need to take advantage of their opportunities.