Coach Justin Longmuir

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WilloTree said:
I agree. Stats never tell a full story. I use it to illustrate that Switkowsi isn't someone fans would consider dropping, yet his numbers are similar. It further illustrates the disproportionate vitriol towards Banfield.

To your other point, Banfield just turned 25. He could absolutely be part of our long-term plans at that age, if he's good enough and if others we draft in the future don't go past him. For now though, the list is the list.

Who are these players we should be bringing in that people keep referring to? Corbett is 27, Sturt has been tried, Henry's a wing now (and most likely a bust) and Emmett's a mature-age state league player. The only option I can see is if Fyfe comes in as a forward Banfield could end up at Peel - but that doesn't really help long term.

I would totally agree with the 'dump Banfield' default setting if it was at all grounded in reality, but it's not. There isn't anyone better who can play hs role. It really is that simple.

We have to remember - Banfield isn't Sheezel. He's a Rookie List pick-up who will probably always be our 22-25th player. He has worked his butt off to make an AFL career for himself. Personally, I'd take 10 Banfields if I could. Imagine how quickly our culture would change.
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So in the 2 games Sturt was tried what did Banfield & Shultz do that makes them automatic selections & Sturt bounced back to the WAFL.
Shultz, Switta & Banfield have all been terrible for extended periods of time with no consequences. Why is just Sturt that gets 2 games, one in which he kicked 2 goals, the other he had 2 shots.
It’s the inconsistency of it that bothers me, not that I think Sturt is a star but he has some potentially elite attributes, great pace, very reliable set shot from anywhere up to 50.
Hopefully he’ll get more opportunities particularly as he seems to be bossing WAFL again. Ditto Henry.
 
E Shed said:
So in the 2 games Sturt was tried what did Banfield & Shultz do that makes them automatic selections & Sturt bounced back to the WAFL.
Shultz, Switta & Banfield have all been terrible for extended periods of time with no consequences. Why is just Sturt that gets 2 games, one in which he kicked 2 goals, the other he had 2 shots.
It’s the inconsistency of it that bothers me, not that I think Sturt is a star but he has some potentially elite attributes, great pace, very reliable set shot from anywhere up to 50.
Hopefully he’ll get more opportunities particularly as he seems to be bossing WAFL again. Ditto Henry.
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No way you're comparing schultz and switta to Sturt???
 
s_wd6 said:
No way you're comparing schultz and switta to Sturt???
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The over rating of Sturt on this board is meme worthy.

E Shed said:
So in the 2 games Sturt was tried what did Banfield & Shultz do that makes them automatic selections & Sturt bounced back to the WAFL.
Shultz, Switta & Banfield have all been terrible for extended periods of time with no consequences. Why is just Sturt that gets 2 games, one in which he kicked 2 goals, the other he had 2 shots.
It’s the inconsistency of it that bothers me, not that I think Sturt is a star but he has some potentially elite attributes, great pace, very reliable set shot from anywhere up to 50.
Hopefully he’ll get more opportunities particularly as he seems to be bossing WAFL again. Ditto Henry.
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Banfield is not an automatic selection, he was sub round 1 and dropped round 3. He has just been better than Sturt, it's as simple as that.

Comparing Schultz and Switta to Sturt is laughable. Schultz kicked 30 goals for us last season, did Sturt even kick 30 in the wafl?
 

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Boomer93 said:
The over rating of Sturt on this board is meme worthy.


Banfield is not an automatic selection, he was sub round 1 and dropped round 3. He has just been better than Sturt, it's as simple as that.

Comparing Schultz and Switta to Sturt is laughable. Schultz kicked 30 goals for us last season, did Sturt even kick 30 in the wafl?
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Sturt has played what, 7 games? How can you say he’s been worse than Banfield, he’s barely played!
Came in for 2 or 3 games. Was our best forward in the loss to the bulldogs. Banfield was utterly anonymous that night as well as the following week in Brisbane. Two of the worst games of his career even by his fringe player standards.
Yeah he looked ok last weekend but everyone looked good last weekend. I’m sure Sturt would have kicked a bag too if he played against a soft kill like Hawthorn.
If Banfield kicks 2 or 3 Goals a game and has 16 or 18 disposals a game against Sydney, Geelong and Melbourne in successive weekends I’ll change my mind.
 
WilloTree said:
I agree. Stats never tell a full story. I use it to illustrate that Switkowsi isn't someone fans would consider dropping, yet his numbers are similar. It further illustrates the disproportionate vitriol towards Banfield.
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The vitriol isn't disproportionate at all. The key that I think you're missing is that many supporters cringe every time Banfield goes near the ball because the odds that he'll **** up the chain are much higher than most other players on the list. He over-runs, fumbles, missed handballs and misses kicks far more regularly than anyone else who has been a regular part of our B22. I would take 11 touches from Switta over 30 from Banfield because Switta is clean and makes good decisions while Banfield, typically, has poor disposal. I will caveat this with BB did have a couple of really nice disposals against the Hawks but even then I would argue he's a downhill skier who only seems to play well when we're stomping the opposition.

WilloTree said:
I would totally agree with the 'dump Banfield' default setting if it was at all grounded in reality, but it's not. There isn't anyone better who can play hs role. It really is that simple.
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And what role is that exactly? Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads and often blasts for goal instead of lowering his eyes? Most of us who are frustrated by Banfield's constant selection are frustrated because Sturt is sitting in the wings, fit and ready to show what he can do at AFL level. We know exactly what Banfield's ceiling looks like and it's not great. Sturt could be one of the genuine forwards with silky skills and footy nous that we've been crying out for this past 20 years but we don't know because JL won't flipping play him for more than a game or two at a time. If Sturt ever plays as many games as Banfield this season and we can legitimately say that Banfield impacted those games better than Sturt then I'll stop spitting the dummy whenever he's selected over Sam.
 
Joao said:
Sturt is definitely suffering from the fact that he wasn't give his 20 games when 18-20 regardless of output that many others enjoyed because we weren't total **** in the first year he wasn't injured for (2022).
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That's the problem though, we are total shit now and he still isn't getting those games
 
SupermanCapes said:
The vitriol isn't disproportionate at all. The key that I think you're missing is that many supporters cringe every time Banfield goes near the ball because the odds that he'll utensil up the chain are much higher than most other players on the list. He over-runs, fumbles, missed handballs and misses kicks far more regularly than anyone else who has been a regular part of our B22. I would take 11 touches from Switta over 30 from Banfield because Switta is clean and makes good decisions while Banfield, typically, has poor disposal. I will caveat this with BB did have a couple of really nice disposals against the Hawks but even then I would argue he's a downhill skier who only seems to play well when we're stomping the opposition.


And what role is that exactly? Fake pressure forward who constantly gets in the way of other leads and often blasts for goal instead of lowering his eyes? Most of us who are frustrated by Banfield's constant selection are frustrated because Sturt is sitting in the wings, fit and ready to show what he can do at AFL level. We know exactly what Banfield's ceiling looks like and it's not great. Sturt could be one of the genuine forwards with silky skills and footy nous that we've been crying out for this past 20 years but we don't know because JL won't *ing play him for more than a game or two at a time. If Sturt ever plays as many games as Banfield this season and we can legitimately say that Banfield impacted those games better than Sturt then I'll stop spitting the dummy whenever he's selected over Sam.
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You're correct about Banfield being at his ceiling and Sturt isn't. That's one of the reasons why Sturt gets dropped sooner, he's being developed. He played poorly against Bris was dropped and played his best game in a long, long time as a result. It shows that he's being managed well and he's responding to the management. It's all going well. If he keeps improving he'll be back in the side and will stay there and be in his prime for when we really need him, in 2025. The coaches know better than Bigfooty opinions.
 
Dockeroo said:
Sturt has played what, 7 games? How can you say he’s been worse than Banfield, he’s barely played!
Came in for 2 or 3 games. Was our best forward in the loss to the bulldogs. Banfield was utterly anonymous that night as well as the following week in Brisbane. Two of the worst games of his career even by his fringe player standards.
Yeah he looked ok last weekend but everyone looked good last weekend. I’m sure Sturt would have kicked a bag too if he played against a soft kill like Hawthorn.
If Banfield kicks 2 or 3 Goals a game and has 16 or 18 disposals a game against Sydney, Geelong and Melbourne in successive weekends I’ll change my mind.
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With all due respect, if Banfield has to have a 60 goal season for a pass mark, I think you're in for some disappointment.

An fact, if anyone at Freo has a 60 goal season I'll I'll put a statue of him up next to Bon Scott in Freo.
 
freo_leo29 said:
That's the problem though, we are total s**t now and he still isn't getting those games
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He's going to get more opportunities, especially if our form doesn't significantly improve.

He just needs to make sure he tears the WAFL a new one each week so he can't be ignored.
 
Joao said:
He's going to get more opportunities, especially if our form doesn't significantly improve.

He just needs to make sure he tears the WAFL a new one each week so he can't be ignored.
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I'd just love to see Banfield at wafl level

Would be a great measuring stick, the bloke hasnt properly played wafl in 2 years

I think from memory he has only played 1 wafl game after being an unused sub? Maybe the north friday nighter in 2022
 

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Joao said:
Sturt is definitely suffering from the fact that he wasn't give his 20 games when 18-20 regardless of output that many others enjoyed because we weren't total **** in the first year he wasn't injured for (2022).
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I think this is a really good point. He missed a lot of footy through injury early. He also didn't play much in his draft year. They're pretty crucial development years.
 
Boomer93 said:
The over rating of Sturt on this board is meme worthy.
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I don't think people are over rating Sturt. I think people want to see Freo win games and with the current line up we're not winning. One of the main reasons is our forwards are not doing a very good job. So for the team to improve, something needs to change. One of those obvious changes is to see if players who aren't in the team can do a better job than those that are in it. Personally, if Sturt got a run of 10 games and his output was less than that of Bailey's last 10, I would be more than happy for Bailey to stay and Sturt dropped. I don't care whose in the team if we're winning, but we're not. So why not try and do something about it rather than do the same thing which unsurprisingly gets the same results.
 
Bicco said:
I don't think people are over rating Sturt. I think people want to see Freo win games and with the current line up we're not winning. One of the main reasons is our forwards are not doing a very good job. So for the team to improve, something needs to change. One of those obvious changes is to see if players who aren't in the team can do a better job than those that are in it. Personally, if Sturt got a run of 10 games and his output was less than that of Bailey's last 10, I would be more than happy for Bailey to stay and Sturt dropped. I don't care whose in the team if we're winning, but we're not. So why not try and do something about it rather than do the same thing which unsurprisingly gets the same results.
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Terrific post. There are some great points in here. It puts the case for Sturt really well, without the keyboard bashing.

I totally agree we desperately need quality in front of the ball. Personally, I really wanted Sturt to succeed due to his potential (also that we used our 1sr rounder in the super-draft on him?). Unfortunately, it hasn't happened yet for him. There is still time though. Just needs to work hard and keep putting his name forward.

Another thing this whole conversation illustrates is how badly we've neglected our front half in the rebuild. The fact that we only used any decent draft currency on Sturt and Amiss in the front half is pretty insane. To put that in perspective, we just let a Pick 7 best 22 defender walk out.
 
WilloTree said:
Terrific post. There are some great points in here. It puts the case for Sturt really well, without the keyboard bashing.

I totally agree we desperately need quality in front of the ball. Personally, I really wanted Sturt to succeed due to his potential (also that we used our 1sr rounder in the super-draft on him?). Unfortunately, it hasn't happened yet for him. There is still time though. Just needs to work hard and keep putting his name forward.

Another thing this whole conversation illustrates is how badly we've neglected our front half in the rebuild. The fact that we only used any decent draft currency on Sturt and Amiss in the front half is pretty insane. To put that in perspective, we just let a Pick 7 best 22 defender walk out.
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The lack of investment in the forward line is unforgivable. I get that we have traded in some forwards, but, we have been reluctant to take forwards in the first two rounds. Maddening.
 
Joao said:
He's going to get more opportunities, especially if our form doesn't significantly improve.

He just needs to make sure he tears the WAFL a new one each week so he can't be ignored.
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Whilst correct , doesn’t help the argument that Sturt gets treated differently for when has banfield ever and I mean ever torn the wafl a new one when he’s played there?

Yet mysteriously he’s inevitably picked again for AFL in the following weeks despite some only mediocre wafl form
 
Selection Obsession is normally a cricketing phenomenon. The amount of acid generated from the margins of selection. Imagine the selection doom-posting if they dropped Chapman for the Hawthorn game, yet our best performance of the year was without him.
 
fnerd said:
Whilst correct , doesn’t help the argument that Sturt gets treated differently for when has banfield ever and I mean ever torn the wafl a new one when he’s played there?

Yet mysteriously he’s inevitably picked again for AFL in the following weeks despite some only mediocre wafl form
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I beleive the difference in treatment is down to the difference in effort.

The fact there is a significant difference in intensity from Sturt this year tells you he wasn't giving you everything before. Banfield has been the same player for years.

Once Sturt learns that max effort is non-negotiable (as Banners long has known), he'll fly past Banners on talent.
 
Joao said:
I beleive the difference in treatment is down to the difference in effort.

The fact there is a significant difference in intensity from Sturt this year tells you he wasn't giving you everything before. Banfield has been the same player for years.

Once Sturt learns that max effort is non-negotiable (as Banners long has known), he'll fly past Banners on talent.
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Yea doubt even sturts most ardent supporters would say his efforts always been where it needs to be .

Again tho baileys main selection criteria seems to only be “effort” based
 
SupermanCapes said:
Hey, you can't just take my point and claim it as your own!

Seriously though, what role is Bailey Banfield playing that makes him indispensable?
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I'm not saying he's indispensable. I'm saying he's playing his role at a standard commensurate to (Rookie List) player in our best 20-25 players on the list, in an area we are desperately short in. He probably won't play 23 games, but he's doing enough atm.

Genuine question. Who comes in?

I can see if Fyfe comes in and Banfield out that makes sense. Outside of that, there's no one belting down the door. Sturts game on the weekend was pretty good (Swans were terrible after quarter time), and his set shot was good (nice lace-out pass from Brodie btw), but 1.2 isn't exactly the return you want in a game like that.

Speaking of Peel, how good was Wilson's goal from 60 out! Also, the Hamling celebration after his goal in junk time was nice to see. He's still got a bit of fire in his belly.
 
poshman said:
The lack of investment in the forward line is unforgivable. I get that we have traded in some forwards, but, we have been reluctant to take forwards in the first two rounds. Maddening.
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Yep. We assumed every trade/pick was going to work out 100%

If that was the case we'd run out with:

McCarthy, Hogan, Sturt
Walters, Lobb, Matera/Henry

Int from Kersten, Schultz, Dixon, Switkowski

It's bizarre that had no play B until Cerra left, which got us Amiss.
 
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