Coach Justin Longmuir

[freo1]

If you concede the age of the list is the problem, but that's partially JL's fault do you also agree then that Walls should go? He's owns a much bigger slice of that pie.

Yep 100%. The club made a big statement about future success and is far from it. I like walls and some of talent he’s brought in, but watching talent, depth and experience walk out the door speaks for itself. JL, walls and bell should all be answerable to the lack of success.

 

[Freomaniac]

Who rated him? He was terrible

Again... he worked under Ron Barrassi in 1994-5. So that in itself would be good to learn off a bloke with Under Ron Barrassi and his wealth of experience. Not to mention this bloke coached Carlton and North melbourne to flags.

Exactly , as this clip from Wickie shows.
Drum was approached by Fremantle, which had not renewed the contract of their first senior coach, Gerard Neesham, who was sacked at the end of the 1998 season, where Fremantle under Neesham finished fifteenth (second-last) position on the ladder . Drum had been one of the most highly anticipated coaching recruits of the season, and some were surprised that he signed with the struggling Dockers. He had been expected to sign with the Collingwood Football Club the previous year, but the deal had fallen through. Drum then became the senior coach of Fremantle Football Club, when he replaced Neesham.[8]

Apparently at the time, Damian Drum was our 2nd prefered coach.

Leigh Matthews was heavily chased by the dockers at the end of 1998, he chose Brisbane instead.

Did I read somewhere once that Eddie McGuire absolutely lost it when he heard Drum had turned down the pies for the dockers?

i wouldnt of been suprised.

 

[King Huskii]

Again... he worked under Ron Barrassi in 1994-5. So that in itself would be good to learn off a bloke with Under Ron Barrassi and his wealth of experience. Not to mention this bloke coached Carlton and North melbourne to flags.



Apparently at the time, Damian Drum was our 2nd prefered coach.

Leigh Matthews was heavily chased by the dockers at the end of 1998, he chose Brisbane instead.

i wouldnt of been suprised.

Barassi was our number one preference. He interviewed and said exactly that recently.

Re Drum. Who cares who he was under. Drum was beyond terrible.

 

[Freomaniac]

Big difference is they all have had sustained success ( Eagles until recently)

If Lyon got us into finals every year after 2015…he would of 100% been kept on after 2019.

Connolly and Lyon are the only two coaches of ours who have coached into their 6th years. One made 2 finals series and the other 4 including a GF. Longmuir to join them has to at least play finals, doesn’t even have to win one.

that would of been likely. Even if we made 5th to 8th in each year from 2016-19, he would of been kept.

Again.... Had freo made finals in 2004-2005 in that that 2002-7 Chris Connolly era, it would of made a difference. Finals in 2003-6 would be more memorable and looked back fondly.

Just like this current situation with justin longmuir. I wished dockers made finals in 2021. that would of meant back to back finals in 2021-22.

If Justin Longmuir is gone at the end of 2024, No doubt we know where the high point is, that 2022 elim finals win.

 

[DocT]

I already said it was a terrible decision. How is that a free pass? The combination of the plan and the stripping back of the list is just garbage. That's not a JL thing though and it's ludicrous to lay it solely at his feet.

Not sure what 'terrible decision' you're referring to. The 'free pass' I was referring to was your reference to the club not realising that they would have an experience drain. I am simply pointing out that the club and in particular the coach bear some significant reponsibility for that loss of experience. I didn't lay it solely at JL's feet.

 

[FD2646]

For those with the axe poised over JL, who do you want to replace him with?

Aim high and see if we can rattle blokes like Longmire or Chris Scott free.

 

[MakeshiftMartyr]

Aim high and see if we can rattle blokes like Longmire or Chris Scott free.

What logical reason would two established premiership coaches have to leave stable clubs like Geelong and Sydney for us? Even if they wanted a change of scenery, there'd be half a dozen clubs lining up for them who would likely be more attractive options.

It takes more than just asking them.

 

[Joao]

Yep 100%. The club made a big statement about future success and is far from it. I like walls and some of talent he’s brought in, but watching talent, depth and experience walk out the door speaks for itself. JL, walls and bell should all be answerable to the lack of success.

At least you're consistent. I think you're absolutely bonkers but it is interesting to see where the rest of the fanbase here thinks the blame lies. Might put up a poll.

Not sure what 'terrible decision' you're referring to. The 'free pass' I was referring to was your reference to the club not realising that they would have an experience drain. I am simply pointing out that the club and in particular the coach bear some significant reponsibility for that loss of experience. I didn't lay it solely at JL's feet.

You quoted me and extracted the "not sure if they realised..." part. The literally next sentence was me saying that was a terrible decision - how could you possibly interpret that any other way than someone/s at the clubs made a mistake?

 

[Dockeroo]

It’s unfortunate for JL but in reality he needs to be better than every other coach in the comp to win a flag at freo.
That’s not the case at big vic clubs like the pies or Richmond.
You can jag a premiership at those clubs if you are in the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league. They have other inherent advantages that we just don’t have. So if there is an odd poor decision by their coach - they can get away with that.

Fremantle can’t. More things need to go right for FFC to compete with Carlton and Collingwood and the likes.
That’s even if our list is equally talented.
So it’s possible JL is a “good” coach. Unfortunately that’s probably not good enough given the other disadvantages he has to navigate. Sucks for JL and yeah it’s not fair - but life isn’t fair.
We will find out next season if JL is up to the task or not.

 

[blue shark]

It’s unfortunate for JL but in reality he needs to be better than every other coach in the comp to win a flag at freo.
That’s not the case at big vic clubs like the pies or Richmond.
You can jag a premiership at those clubs if you are in the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league. They have other inherent advantages that we just don’t have. So if there is an odd poor decision by their coach - they can get away with that.

Fremantle can’t. More things need to go right for FFC to compete with Carlton and Collingwood and the likes.
That’s even if our list is equally talented.
So it’s possible JL is a “good” coach. Unfortunately that’s probably not good enough given the other disadvantages he has to navigate. Sucks for JL and yeah it’s not fair - but life isn’t fair.
We will find out next season if JL is up to the task or not.

Simon Goodwin, Beverage, Simpson all had luck on their side.
Wont be surprised to see all 3 gone sooner rather than later.
Something about Goodwin doesn’t add up, One hit wonders?

 

[CapitalA]

It’s unfortunate for JL but in reality he needs to be better than every other coach in the comp to win a flag at freo.
That’s not the case at big vic clubs like the pies or Richmond.
You can jag a premiership at those clubs if you are in the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league. They have other inherent advantages that we just don’t have. So if there is an odd poor decision by their coach - they can get away with that.

Fremantle can’t. More things need to go right for FFC to compete with Carlton and Collingwood and the likes.
That’s even if our list is equally talented.
So it’s possible JL is a “good” coach. Unfortunately that’s probably not good enough given the other disadvantages he has to navigate. Sucks for JL and yeah it’s not fair - but life isn’t fair.
We will find out next season if JL is up to the task or not.

So if JL is a good coach then there is a much higher chance we get a worse coach than a better coach after him. In fact if what you say were true it would be almost impossible for a WA team to win a premiership because they would have to be the best coach in the comp, which I don't think is correct.

 

[Dockeroo]

So if JL is a good coach then there is a much higher chance we get a worse coach than a better coach after him. In fact if what you say were true it would be almost impossible for a WA team to win a premiership because they would have to be the best coach in the comp, which I don't think is correct.

I think there is a very strong possibility that it’s almost impossible for freo to win the flag. Even the way the talent is divided across the teams does not favour us.
West coast are not much different to be honest. As Snuffaluphagus has pointed out on here, an almost freak draft choice in 2001 when they selected Chris Judd with pick 3 was responsible for the two flags they won this century. What happened in the early 90s when they were a one state monopoly is almost irrelevant.

They got the best 6 years of judds career out of him and a flag, then flicked him off for 15 years for a generational key forward in JK in 2007, without whom there would be no 2018 flag.
That pick 3 in 2001 was a priority pick - now that is something that will never ever be given to a WA club ever again.
Like I said, everything has to go right for freo. We don’t have the margin for error that other clubs have.
It’s not impossible to win the flag but it is incredibly hard. Right now we are miles off the pace. We have a talented young core yes, but there’s 4 or 5 competitors with similarly talented cores and more advantages from the AFL, including Gold Coast, the 2 Sydney clubs, north, and even Adelaide.
We are also up again at the heavy hand of history having been a historically unsuccessful club, something that sides like Adelaide and the hawks and the eagles don’t have to deal with.
I’ll never stop supporting and dreaming we can win the flag but it’s going to take some extraordinary luck and a long list of good decisions to be made at all
Levels of the club. Starting with next months draft. Once again we require Walls to be much much better than the AFL average success rate at this draft, just to keep pace with the concessions and advantages some of our competitors have.

 

[blue shark]

I think there is a very strong possibility that it’s almost impossible for freo to win the flag. Even the way the talent is divided across the teams does not favour us.
West coast are not much different to be honest. As Snuffaluphagus has pointed out on here, an almost freak draft choice in 2001 when they selected Chris Judd with pick 3 was responsible for the two flags they won this century. What happened in the early 90s when they were a one state monopoly is almost irrelevant.

They got the best 6 years of judds career out of him and a flag, then flicked him off for 15 years for a generational key forward in JK in 2007, without whom there would be no 2018 flag.
That pick 3 in 2001 was a priority pick - now that is something that will never ever be given to a WA club ever again.
Like I said, everything has to go right for freo. We don’t have the margin for error that other clubs have.
It’s not impossible to win the flag but it is incredibly hard. Right now we are miles off the pace. We have a talented young core yes, but there’s 4 or 5 competitors with similarly talented cores and more advantages from the AFL, including Gold Coast, the 2 Sydney clubs, north, and even Adelaide.
We are also up again at the heavy hand of history having been a historically unsuccessful club, something that sides like Adelaide and the hawks and the eagles don’t have to deal with.
I’ll never stop supporting and dreaming we can win the flag but it’s going to take some extraordinary luck and a long list of good decisions to be made at all
Levels of the club. Starting with next months draft. Once again we require Walls to be much much better than the AFL average success rate at this draft, just to keep pace with the concessions and advantages some of our competitors have.

WC got P Matera on concession too. But the biggest advantage was it was stacked
with WA talent who wanted to be here.
The players they moved or didn’t want had careers elsewhere, the us vs them
Mentality served them well.
Worsfold was an inspired Captain, and they refused to be bullied anymore.
Not surprising that after the nineties, the 2 flags afterwards were won by a kick.
The players were well drilled, trained, and hard nosed just like Malthouse.
Who at Freo is going to be hell bent on winning everything?
Fighting for some sort of concession would be a start, but not a peep from
anyone running the game in this state.

 

[FD2646]

What logical reason would two established premiership coaches have to leave stable clubs like Geelong and Sydney for us? Even if they wanted a change of scenery, there'd be half a dozen clubs lining up for them who would likely be more attractive options.

It takes more than just asking them.

Asking isn't just about asking it's pitching a vision - to create history as the 1st premiership coach of Fremantle and being paid 1 million per year for 5 years. Geelong are in for a rebuild of sorts, whereas our rebuild is complete or nearing completion. Both horse and Scott have been in the same environment for an extended period and maybe a change suits, plus Scott has some understanding of the club and Perth - albeit dated.

There are likely many other considerations but it's time to be bold, just like when we poached Ross.

 

[Freomaniac]

It’s unfortunate for JL but in reality he needs to be better than every other coach in the comp to win a flag at freo.
That’s not the case at big vic clubs like the pies or Richmond.
You can jag a premiership at those clubs if you are in the top 3 or 4 coaches in the league. They have other inherent advantages that we just don’t have. So if there is an odd poor decision by their coach - they can get away with that.

Fremantle can’t. More things need to go right for FFC to compete with Carlton and Collingwood and the likes.
That’s even if our list is equally talented.
So it’s possible JL is a “good” coach. Unfortunately that’s probably not good enough given the other disadvantages he has to navigate. Sucks for JL and yeah it’s not fair - but life isn’t fair.
We will find out next season if JL is up to the task or not.

Yep... Sounds about right.

Again... I brought this up. Look at our 30 year history. Only Ross Lyon has given freo consistent finals success.

That was 2012-15 when we made finals back to back or at least 2 years in a row. Compare Ross Lyon to other dockers coaches we have had before Ross Lyon in 1995-2011 and after ross lyon from 2020 onwards. Lyon was easily the most experienced person to be a head coach at Freo.


Saying that, I agree Justin Longmuir isnt a bad coach. But he is fighting against the tide with experienced players leaving.

I look back at this time last season. Had we kept all of Darcy tucker, Griffin Logue, Blake Acres, Rory Lobb and Lloyd meek for one more season in 2023. Would freo of been a better side? maybe.


I think For this club to be mildly success full and make finals for 3 or 4 years in a row again, We might need an experienced coach like a Hinkley or a Hardwick or a Don Pyke or even A brett Ratten at the club as a head coach

 

[Purpletown]

Again... he worked under Ron Barrassi in 1994-5. So that in itself would be good to learn off a bloke with Under Ron Barrassi and his wealth of experience. Not to mention this bloke coached Carlton and North melbourne to flags.



Apparently at the time, Damian Drum was our 2nd prefered coach.

Leigh Matthews was heavily chased by the dockers at the end of 1998, he chose Brisbane instead.

i wouldnt of been suprised.

I recall Leigh Mathews saying in an interview that he found the same time zone of Brisbane to Melbourne as a strong reason for him to coach in Qld.

Other coaches would in all probability also regard being in the Melbourne time zone as desirable too. All in all it's just a little more difficult for us to recruit coaches and players but we just have to deal with it as best we can.

 

[DocT]

At least you're consistent. I think you're absolutely bonkers but it is interesting to see where the rest of the fanbase here thinks the blame lies. Might put up a poll.



You quoted me and extracted the "not sure if they realised..." part. The literally next sentence was me saying that was a terrible decision - how could you possibly interpret that any other way than someone/s at the clubs made a mistake?

Got that, but were you meaning the decision to publicly state a goal of a premiership by 2025 (or whatever dumb thing it was)?

 

[DocT]

I think there is a very strong possibility that it’s almost impossible for freo to win the flag. Even the way the talent is divided across the teams does not favour us.
West coast are not much different to be honest. As Snuffaluphagus has pointed out on here, an almost freak draft choice in 2001 when they selected Chris Judd with pick 3 was responsible for the two flags they won this century. What happened in the early 90s when they were a one state monopoly is almost irrelevant.

They got the best 6 years of judds career out of him and a flag, then flicked him off for 15 years for a generational key forward in JK in 2007, without whom there would be no 2018 flag.
That pick 3 in 2001 was a priority pick - now that is something that will never ever be given to a WA club ever again.
Like I said, everything has to go right for freo. We don’t have the margin for error that other clubs have.
It’s not impossible to win the flag but it is incredibly hard. Right now we are miles off the pace. We have a talented young core yes, but there’s 4 or 5 competitors with similarly talented cores and more advantages from the AFL, including Gold Coast, the 2 Sydney clubs, north, and even Adelaide.
We are also up again at the heavy hand of history having been a historically unsuccessful club, something that sides like Adelaide and the hawks and the eagles don’t have to deal with.
I’ll never stop supporting and dreaming we can win the flag but it’s going to take some extraordinary luck and a long list of good decisions to be made at all
Levels of the club. Starting with next months draft. Once again we require Walls to be much much better than the AFL average success rate at this draft, just to keep pace with the concessions and advantages some of our competitors have.

2006 was chemically assisted too. I don't know about the other premierships.

 

[Joao]

Got that, but were you meaning the decision to publicly state a goal of a premiership by 2025 (or whatever dumb thing it was)?

I don't know which part is dumb because I don't know what they knew, but without question, somebody got something very wrong.

 

[pK75]

Got that, but were you meaning the decision to publicly state a goal of a premiership by 2025 (or whatever dumb thing it was)?

Does everyone realise the women’s team played a preliminary final in 2022 S6? So we have ticked off one of the 3 already. We have two more seasons for both the men’s and women’s teams to notch up the other 2 preliminary finals and a premiership.
Whilst it doesn’t seem likely now, if we make a prelim in 2024 and win the premiership in 2025 (making another prelim along the way) we have met the targets set out by the club.

 

[King Tenz]

Does everyone realise the women’s team played a preliminary final in 2022 S6? So we have ticked off one of the 3 already. We have two more seasons for both the men’s and women’s teams to notch up the other 2 preliminary finals and a premiership.
Whilst it doesn’t seem likely now, if we make a prelim in 2024 and win the premiership in 2025 (making another prelim along the way) we have met the targets set out by the club.

Call me a doomer but I just don't see a flag or 2 prelims happening by 2025 for either the Mens team or the Womens team.

 

[stax on the mull]

How many vacant spaces do you have in your current best starting line-up when you write it down where you think there is no-one in the current squad that will be good enough to play.

I think that we're set up for the long-term with the current age of our squad, where we're still uncertain about maybe 6-8 positions in the team of 23 players that are currently taken up by players who can do a good job on their day. By that I mean in those up for grab spots that are currently held by roleplayer types, aging players and high draft picks who have yet to reach their potential, where we'd like to see replacements or evolution strengthen the overall team. We have a very good draft hand next year. The core of a good side that can get better is already contracted and it's those players that will make it easier to find and put the missing pieces of the puzzle(the last 6-8 players) into place.

If the fears of Justin failing in 2024 become a reality, It's an attractive list to coach in 2025.

 

[DocT]

Does everyone realise the women’s team played a preliminary final in 2022 S6? So we have ticked off one of the 3 already. We have two more seasons for both the men’s and women’s teams to notch up the other 2 preliminary finals and a premiership.
Whilst it doesn’t seem likely now, if we make a prelim in 2024 and win the premiership in 2025 (making another prelim along the way) we have met the targets set out by the club.

Whatever happens it is still a dumb prediction. Even in simple scenarios the future is hard to predict. When you have 17 other clubs that you have zero control over all doing their darndest to best you and imagining that you are somehow setting yourself a meaningful goal to strive for, wildly optimistic predictions are just silly. Odds on you will end up looking like a fool. And FFC do not need to conjure more reasons to appear foolish.

 

[purplearmy]

I want a statement from management ahead of the next season saying what a pass mark is. If that mark isn’t met, Longmuir needs to go.

 

[The Lobbster]

I want a statement from management ahead of the need season saying what a pass mark is. If that mark isn’t met, Longmuir needs to go.

Guarantee this will not happen nor IMO should it happen. The club should make its standards clear to JL and hold him to them as should every workplace. But I can’t remember any AFL club every publicly releasing a black and white pass mark statement because it would put a massive amount of avoidable public and media scrutiny.

Being held to account is good. Supplying ammo to a media baying for blood isn’t.