So, you have completely ignored Kallis' 261 Test wickets?
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Kallis, Ponting or Tendulkar - Who is better?
- Thread starter BluesInTheSky
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No it's not.
Remove personal bias and ask neutrals and Tendulkar would be clearly preferred.
I think you need to remove your bias.
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
If you remove bias, then it would be Ponting then Kallis and Tendulkar wouldn't even be in the picture.
I wonder if most of the people in there actually saw Sachin bat back in the 90s.
He is easily no.1 as a batsman, the other two don't even come close
He is easily no.1 as a batsman, the other two don't even come close
You're welcome to put Sachin as no 1, but claiming the Kallis and Ponting aren't even close is just plain ridiculous. Sachin's record is, at best, only marginally better than Ponting.
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
Would you rather a batsman that looks good or batsman that wins you games?
I'd rather one that has both, and that's Tendulkar
Only fools determine the worth of a batsman by comparing purely records. Ponting was at his peak during a period between 2002-2007, where he batted somewhere near Tendulkar's standards, but the quality of the bowling at the time was very poor compare to other eras. Ponting also has a massive minus to his record against any quality bowling during that time. The likes of Sharma, the England quicks and even Roach caught him out.
Kallis, it's laughable how he is even compared with the other two. Sure, he gets the numbers but he stonewalls, fails too much against Australia and has been accused of playing for his average for his entire career. Nowhere close
Tendulkar on the other hand batted in such a way against the quality bowling of the 90s that anyone who has watched him during that time all rated him as the best in the world. He toys with spin bowling to a completely different level to Ponting (whom struggles against it, although less so 5 years ago). He has scored mountains of runs against Australia during their peak when they clearly had the best bowling in the world, and made Shane Warne, who is probably the greatest spinner in history, look like a D grade bowler everytime he came up against him.
Sorry, but Ponting isn't even better than Lara, who is probably the only one who comes close to Sachin in the modern era. I hope people have actually watched all three played extensive before making their own judgments, otherwise it's just laughable
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
His record in comparison to Ponting and Kallis is woeful in that department, nor is he any good in the 2nd innings.
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
Sorry but you're saying Ponting performed against shit bowling in 2002-07 yet Tendulkar dropped four runs off his average in the same period.
Then why does Kallis have a better win record than Tendulkar?
Yeah I remember those quality sides Australia use to send to India in the 90's. Seriously, Gavin Robertson is the original Krejza right? This whole 90's bullshit about the bowling being better and that it was so much harder back then is ordinary to say the least. The only thing that has changed is you don't get as many of the same old school w***ers like Neil Harvey telling you that you can't hit a four off the first ball of a game. The mentality of the game has changed while the skill level has become more honed as happens in every generation of top level sports. The bowling is as good as it has ever been it's just they're still catching up to the changes in batting.
You're talking about three/four completely different types of players. I'd take Lara over Tendulkar and Ponting over Lara and Tendulkar but Kallis is in the top five players of all time because he is a gun all rounder.
Angus Frazer, Caddick, Chris Lewis and Derick Pringle?
its amazing that when the clock struck over to the year 2000 the standard of bowling in cricket instantly dropped
- May 10, 2004
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Well yeah, but then don't forget we haven't had bowlers of the calibre of Akram, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, de Villiers and hell, even Javagal Srinath, getting around deep into the noughties.
Hell, even the two countries that had legendary bolwers spanning the last two decades, Sri Lanka (Murali and Vaas) and Australia (Warne and McGrath), haven't found anyone to replace them who are in their league.
Of the current bowlers i'd only put Dale Steyn in that sort of esteem.
Having said this, I have no problem mentioning Ponting and Tendulkar in the same breath.
And lets face it, for whatever people want to say about Jacques Kallis, his record speaks for itself. he would walk into any team ever to play the game at any time in the games history.
i would say nearly every team has atlest one bowler better then him.
Steyn will go down as a great and would murder some teams if he had some of the 90's pitches to bowl on and i think Asif's record for a medium pacer in this day and age of cricket is quite remarkable.
- May 10, 2004
- 24,853
- 5,691
- AFL Club
- Geelong
- Other Teams
- Pistons/Hammers/Sri Lanka/The Exers
Selectively picking the bowlers from probably the worst performing international team in the 90s outside of Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Kenya?
Diablo14 mentioned some of the other bowlers that Sachin have mentioned to make hundreds against. Also averaging nearly 60 against the likes of McGrath, Warne and co probably counts for something?
People who try to argue against the bowling in the 90s not being better than the one in the 00s are kidding themselves.
Don't split my post, it's childish and annoying
1. Tendulkar had a tennis elbow and various other injuries to get over during 2002-2006 or so. Thought that was fairly well documented. Before then, his average was 59 and was going up.
2. Because Kallis played in a better team throughout his career? Tendulkar has played in some laughable Indian sides over the years and still managed to score runs. I'm not sure what your point is, since it's completely irrelevant.
3. Now you are just talking rubbish, Shane Warne was bowling at the other end when Gavin Rob was trundling around at that time. I can selectively pick shit bowlers from any era to justify my point, but if you look at the overall quality of bowling in both decades, then you are stupid to even think that the 90s wasn't better than the 00s. Hope people were watching the game then and now
4. I laugh at your choices. That is all
Hope you actually watched all three all these years to comment.
Chennai 1997, 99, 2001 series 3rd Test vs Aus, Sharjah, England at Mumbai recently (There's a 2nd innings winning ton to your poor 2nd innings jibe), bloody hell he has even won matches at the death with his bowling, but I won't go there. That's not even counting all those innings he had played to get India so close to wins that they wouldn't otherwise have, because they are bad. And they would've won those close matches if his team was anything better than pathetic.
He has played countless matchwinning innings in his time, particularly in Tests. Anyone who has watched it would know. Over a 20 year career, I can selectively pick any little failure there is and use it against anyone. Heck, I can say that Ponting lost 2 Ashes series in England as captain and didn't perform with the bat when it counted. But I wouldn't use that against Ponting because I think he is the 3rd best batsmen in modern times behind Tendulkar and Lara, because I wouldn't selectively pick any little blip in a long career to make a bias point?
I laugh at you even pointig out Kallis performing in the big moments. People say Tendulkar failed in a World Cup final: Bloody hell, Kallis has hardly done anything in any World Cups, and has a habit to go missing in the big moments. Have you even watch Kallis all this time?
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
So is your alias.
Ponting and Kallis have never had an injury.
Tendulkar doesn't win games. Kallis does.
I'm not saying it is better, I am saying it isn't worse, or are you too stupid to understand that or anything else I said? No, what you were doing was being a selective in what you replied to.
4. I laugh at your choices. That is all
28 out of 39 tons Ponting has scored came in winning test matches of which 11 have come outside of Oceania. Tendulkar has scored 19 of 47 in winning test matches and only three are outside of Asia. Kallis has hit 18 of 34 tests tons in winning test and four have come outside of Africa. Ponting and Kallis are both superior fielders. Kallis can bowl.
Ill Chicken
Premiership Player
That's a load of crap, their batting has been heavy weights for the last 10 years and they've always played well at home.
Yes and they're all in Asia.
Ha. I didn't even say anything about Kallis or Tendulkar in the WC. Regardless, India in general have a habit of going missing in the big moments, especially away from home.
I can't believe someone is quite seriously comparing the bowling standard of the 90's wth the 00's.
Ponting struggled in the 90's when fast bowling had an outstanding pool of talent.
Tendulkar didn't.
Really, I wouldn't bother with this ill chicken character. It's obvious he's an obsessed fanboy unwilling to accept or grasp that most of the world rates Tendulkar above Ponting.
He is a better batsman. I don't know why anyone would argue differently when it's obvious but I suppose I underestimate the willing stupidity of some.
I mean seriously pulling out stats about hundreds in winning test matches? That's reflective of teammates, not the individual. India have been terrible away from home for a long time. It's not Tendulkar's fault if his teammates can't produce consistent form away from India. A really useless stat. Totally irrelevant to the argument and a sign of desperation from someone who has so little else to go on.
Ponting struggled in the 90's when fast bowling had an outstanding pool of talent.
Tendulkar didn't.
Really, I wouldn't bother with this ill chicken character. It's obvious he's an obsessed fanboy unwilling to accept or grasp that most of the world rates Tendulkar above Ponting.
He is a better batsman. I don't know why anyone would argue differently when it's obvious but I suppose I underestimate the willing stupidity of some.
I mean seriously pulling out stats about hundreds in winning test matches? That's reflective of teammates, not the individual. India have been terrible away from home for a long time. It's not Tendulkar's fault if his teammates can't produce consistent form away from India. A really useless stat. Totally irrelevant to the argument and a sign of desperation from someone who has so little else to go on.
What a convenient way to just dismiss the only factual evidence to compare players, in favour of pure opinion.
In any event, you should note that I didn't say I rated Ponting higher. In fact, I agree that both Lara and Tendulkar as probably better. But to say that Ponting is nowhere even close is just plain exaggeration. His record batting at number 3, the toughest spot in the order, is phenomenal (Tendulkar has never batted at 3 in Tests). Plus, he has taken on the added pressure of captaincy without any impact on his batting. Criticise his captaincy as much as you like, the fact remains that he's been a relatively successful captain and maintained his batting form. Tendulkar's form started to dip under the pressure of captaincy and he ultimately relinquished it. These are only minor points, though.
IMHO, Kallis is the next rung down. Along with guys like Dravid. Awesome batsman, but just not quite in the Ponting/Lara/Tendulkar class. If you add his bowling into the mix, though, Kallis has fair claim to being one of the all time greats.
The most amusing thing about this thread is that Kallis gets mentioned in the same breath as Ponting or Sachin.
Most spectacularly overrated player of all time.
Most spectacularly overrated player of all time.
i could mention Sri Lankas, New Zelands and Indias pace bowling line ups as well if you want but i wont rub it in.
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