Kennett calls for Melbourne and North Melbourne to merge

[Roylion]

North should have been forced to go to the gold coast and someone should have gone to Tassie.

While they can encourage / influence clubs to move in a particular direction, the AFL can't force any club to go anywhere. They don't own the clubs to do with as they will. The AFL merely issues a licence to an entity to field a team in the AFL competition.

No club is likely to consider a merger or relocation unless they financially have no other option. Having said that, in 1996, Melbourne did exactly that when it proposed a merger with Hawthorn. However that failed because many voting supporters of both clubs did see other options to merger/relocation that preserved the identity of said clubs.

North Melbourne and Melbourne won't be merging anytime soon. At the very least not in Jeff Kennett's lifetime.

 

[Vdubs]

As much chance and need of this merge happening as there would be of GC/ Lions, and Swans/GWS merging. Will not happen.Not in my lifetime!. I'm mid 50's.

Things are looking very up for NM, and suspect Demons not far behind. In every capacity .

 

[Marlowe]

 

[SchumiUCD]

Mascot:

 

[Marlowe]

Mascot:

Should be wearing a blazer.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

It's only a matter of time before we have another merger.

Only a matter of time before this particular troll merges with oblivion, I would say.

 

[SunshineBoy]

As some have already pointed out, the combined list would create a potent side that would quickly become premiership favorite or near that level.

So points why a merger would not work:

1. The other 16 clubs have the option of voting against this needing 75% agreement to overturn the commissions rule. As this would very quickly occur - clubs are very short term orientated when it comes to on field success - I could see this easily occurring. Other clubs would be unwilling to allow this to happen.

2nd Point is that with Melbourne now debt free - North looking at reducing debt by $1 million or possible $2 Million this year (Say its down to $3 mill by end of 2012, with further reductions in coming years). As such if that trend was able to be continued (with Tassie and possible Ballarat coming online in the next 2/3 years, you could argue it would), then at the end of this 5 year deal - both clubs may have no long term debt. (I am not including short term as depending on cash flow, a number of clubs at any particular time have Overdrafts or short term debt facilities)

As such neither will be in debt or insolvant so there would be no financial pressure on either to chart that course.

3. Both clubs would have to vote in favour of such an arrangement. As we saw in the 90s with Hawks and Melb, this would almost be impossible to achieve. The melbourne vote was yes - but my understanding is that a lot of shenigans were involved and there may have been on going court cases disputing the vote if the merger was going to proceed.

4. If one of the clubs was in dire financial plight and the other wasnt, the members of the club that wasnt would most likely vote against it as well.

As such a club is more likely to relocate than merge. Or the worst scenario go out of business.

We are talking about member owned clubs - and members by nature are that because they are passionate about there club and will not see a disolution of what they have emotionally and financially committed too. A club will need to be on its knees, with the only recourse been relocation/ending for even relocation to work.

The AFL has history to support this presumption.

I cant see a merger ever happening again.

really? Which clubs merged? I am an old fart and I can't remember two clubs merging unless we ae talking NRL.

The chances of a merger are zero relocation well that's another topic for another thread.

If you allude to Fitzroy I'm sure a lot of Fitzroy supporters don't believe they merged with Brisbane Bears version 3.5

Just my take on things, perhaps you need to travel to the Fitzroy board!!

 

[Vdubs]

NM will be close to being capable of a flag VERY SOON, as they are. Very underrated list and being managed exceptionally well. Would not surprise if they are top 4 this year. Remind me of Cats 04, they have to start winning away from Etihad, THEN they will be THE team. Very complete list, and on field, would not require Demons.

 

[Black Diamond]

NM will be close to being capable of a flag VERY SOON, as they are. Very underrated list and being managed exceptionally well. Would not surprise if they are top 4 this year. Remind me of Cats 04, they have to start winning away from Etihad, THEN they will be THE team. Very complete list, and on field, would not require Demons.

Yep. We've got several in the VFL this week who would improve Melbourne if they could switch now, but the only Melbourne players who would improve us would be Trengove and Frawley. Frawley may not even be best 22 at the moment with Scott Thompson in form.

 

[Costa fc]

Merging Melbourne clubs is a massive mistake. Kennett said a Dees/Kangas merger would create a strong Melbourne brand... actually it would do exactly the opposite.

Good brands are never a blurry compromise. Good branding is about being different, not blending in with the competition. Strong brands are what they've always been. They never flinch.

I wrote a brand analysis showing just why Kennett's so wrong about mergers. Bit long for a Big Footy post, but if you're interested you can read it here:

http://www.costasportslogos.com/content/why-jeff-kennett-wrong-about-melbourne-afl-merger

 

[Tulip]

Frawley may not even be best 22 at the moment with Scott Thompson in form.

Giggled.

If North Melbourne had 21 better players than us, I'd like to see it.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Merging Melbourne clubs is a massive mistake. Kennett said a Dees/Kangas merger would create a strong Melbourne brand... actually it would do exactly the opposite.

Good brands are never a blurry compromise. Good branding is about being different, not blending in with the competition. Strong brands are what they've always been. They never flinch.

I wrote a brand analysis showing just why Kennett's so wrong about mergers. Bit long for a Big Footy post, but if you're interested you can read it here:

http://www.costasportslogos.com/content/why-jeff-kennett-wrong-about-melbourne-afl-merger

Brands is not the issue here . Its about winning games and being strong on the feild then you can sell a brand. People in general don,t like losing and especially losing forever.
I think Kennett was talking initially about Melbourne being a basket case on the feild not whether they were broke or not and North well how long? With the bleeding expansion and some people actually talking about third clubs in SA and WA fair dinkum where does it stop.

 

[Black Diamond]

Giggled.

If North Melbourne had 21 better players than us, I'd like to see it.

Trengove would push out Cunnington, Anthony, and maybe Harper at the moment.

Our defence has been really good this year. Frawley wouldn't automatically crack the back six.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Brands is not the issue here . Its about winning games and being strong on the feild then you can sell a brand. People in general don,t like losing and especially losing forever.
I think Kennett was talking initially about Melbourne being a basket case on the feild not whether they were broke or not and North well how long? With the bleeding expansion and some people actually talking about third clubs in SA and WA fair dinkum where does it stop.

Well Costafc your writings on mergers is fine and in the sense that you mean it probably correct.
But in a football sense mergers for supporters are terrible things, and are only used when a disaster strikes like Fitzroy collapsing. If you know any Fitzroy supporters you may understand about branding and making money the club existance is what they worried about.
They did not want a merge. I,m sure Kennett would not want a Hawthorn merge.

Once again this is a football thing not a business brand thing . I know all you accountant typed experts will say well if you don,t have a brand or a big bank full of money you don,t have a team or anything. Kennett who knows what he has in his mind when talking mergers, but me I have only one thought , and that is the AFL has rammed expansion down
our throats and as time passes more clubs will suffer the "never win a game" syndrome not for several weeks but for several years.
There is no point having an iconic club with money but crap football players and maybe management and coaches like Melbourne that can,t win a game , when you,ve got another club like North thats looking good on the ground but could be a crasher in the financial area
sooner than later.

So in this day and age with footy clubs everywhere and player stocks being diluted, you can imagine the strength of Melb and North merging, for me its a bloody horrible thought , but when your talking about survival I think that is what Kennett meant.

If it doesn,t happen anywhere then aventually a club will simply die a natural financial death. Which to some may be the same as merging. Brands won,t mean a thing.

 

[Costa fc]

Brands is not the issue here . Its about winning games and being strong on the feild then you can sell a brand.

Kennett was specifically talking about the merger creating a "strong Melbourne brand". Branding is more about winning footy games.

Footy's cyclical. You can't win forever. What happens when a merged North/Melb team falls off the pace? What happens when they have a string of years near the bottom of the ladder? Will the fans have much passion for a merged team that they never really wanted formed in the first place?

A good brand gets you through the hard times. That's when you really test the strength of your brand.

 

[Tulip]

Trengove would push out Cunnington, Anthony, and maybe Harper at the moment.

Our defence has been really good this year. Frawley wouldn't automatically crack the back six.

Any AA defenders on your list?

Frawley, Jurrah (circumstances pending), Trengove, Jones, Watts would all slide in well and maybe one or two more.

You're good, but you overrate the players who are contributing, but aren't stars (Harper, Anthony, Cunnington, Thomas etc.)

 

[TheKanga]

Giggled.

If North Melbourne had 21 better players than us, I'd like to see it.

Our best 22 is far better than Melbournes, which is why your team could be 0-4 this Sunday.

 

[JoondalupJ]

While they can encourage / influence clubs to move in a particular direction, the AFL can't force any club to go anywhere. They don't own the clubs to do with as they will. The AFL merely issues a licence to an entity to field a team in the AFL competition.

No club is likely to consider a merger or relocation unless they financially have no other option. Having said that, in 1996, Melbourne did exactly that when it proposed a merger with Hawthorn. However that failed because many voting supporters of both clubs did see other options to merger/relocation that preserved the identity of said clubs.

North Melbourne and Melbourne won't be merging anytime soon. At the very least not in Jeff Kennett's lifetime.

Your right . Fitzroy in the true sense as your saying were not forced to go to Brisbane.

But it looked like being forced to me, no one wanted to help them, then the North Mebourne thing fell over and Ron Casey was spitting chips, off they went to Brisbane .

I suppose it depends on how the force is applied. Fitzroy merge was a tragedy, but great for the new queensland club. Even though some little bits of Fitzroy went up there, its not Fitzroy is it.

 

[Costa fc]

Well Costafc your writings on mergers is fine and in the sense that you mean it probably correct.
But in a football sense mergers for supporters are terrible things, and are only used when a disaster strikes like Fitzroy collapsing. If you know any Fitzroy supporters you may understand about branding and making money the club existance is what they worried about.
They did not want a merge. I,m sure Kennett would not want a Hawthorn merge.

Once again this is a football thing not a business brand thing . I know all you accountant typed experts will say well if you don,t have a brand or a big bank full of money you don,t have a team or anything. Kennett who knows what he has in his mind when talking mergers, but me I have only one thought , and that is the AFL has rammed expansion down
our throats and as time passes more clubs will suffer the "never win a game" syndrome not for several weeks but for several years.
There is no point having an iconic club with money but crap football players and maybe management and coaches like Melbourne that can,t win a game , when you,ve got another club like North thats looking good on the ground but could be a crasher in the financial area
sooner than later.

So in this day and age with footy clubs everywhere and player stocks being diluted, you can imagine the strength of Melb and North merging, for me its a bloody horrible thought , but when your talking about survival I think that is what Kennett meant.

If it doesn,t happen anywhere then aventually a club will simply die a natural financial death. Which to some may be the same as merging. Brands won,t mean a thing.

Sorry, I don't quite get your point. Are you against a Dees/Kangas merger or supporting it?

Kennett supported a Hawthorn merger. He's bullying North and Melb into a merger they don't want, using "branding" as a justification. I'm just saying that any talk of mergers being good for a team's 'brand' is way off the mark.

Not sure where calling me an 'accounting type' comes from. Did you think I was saying that mergers are good for fans? Did you read this?

http://www.costasportslogos.com/content/why-jeff-kennett-wrong-about-melbourne-afl-merger

 

[Black Diamond]

Any AA defenders on your list?

No. But is our backline better than yours? Yes. Frawley would have to force his way in to that.

Frawley, Jurrah (circumstances pending), Trengove, Jones, Watts would all slide in well and maybe one or two more.

Frawley could be in. Trengove I've dealt with. Jones could be in for Cunnngton, maybe, but again, our midfield outfit is better than yours and he would have to force his way in. No to Watts. He isn't good enough to play in our midfield or at half-back, and he won't be displacing anyone in our forward line. Same goes for Jurrah.

You're good, but you overrate the players who are contributing, but aren't stars (Harper, Anthony, Cunnington, Thomas etc.)

I've already listed Harper, Anthony and Cunnington as players who would be in danger. Harper just for his tank though. Anthony is stepping it up at the moment. Thomas has been a good contributor so far and I can't see any Melbourne small forward pushing him out.

I'll ad that while MacMillan is very popular on the North board, he's want to do a little more.

 

[Black Diamond]

Along with the above, Speight, Greenwood, Grima, Cameron Delaney, Black, Warren and Hansen are playing VFL this week and would all threaten several Melbourne players.

 

[unstable punt]

Along with the above, Speight, Greenwood, Grima, Cameron Delaney, Black, Warren and Hansen are playing VFL this week and would all threaten several Melbourne players.

blah, blah, blah, sick of all this crap, it isn't going to happen, end of story.

 

[Black Diamond]

Given the quality of our drafting since 2006, if we had all of Melbourne's picks we would be comfortably top 4 this season.

 

[Tulip]

None of the above players would get a run in our side, especially Hansen.

We have 11 injuries, you have 3.

Frawley>McMahon

Watts>Harper

Grimes>MacMillan

Trengove>Atley

Jurrah>Thomas

Sylvia>Campbell

Jones>Cunnington

Clark>McIntosh

14-8, North still well in front, but you rate your bottom players far too high.

 

[Black Diamond]

None of the above players would get a run in our side, especially Hansen.

All of the players I listed are tough players who run both ways and put their bodies on the line. Going by the comments on your own board these are exactly the types who would get a run at Melbourne.

Frawley>McMahon

Yet McMahon is having a better season.

Watts>Harper

Is this an admission that Watts is a flanker/mid?

Grimes>MacMillan

Maybe when he gets on the park. I'll stick with MacMillan.

Trengove>Atley

Yes. We're pretty happy with Atley though.

Jurrah>Thomas

Not the same player at all. Would not swap these two.

Sylvia>Campbell

Mid v small forward. Would not ever have Sylvia in our side.

Jones>Cunnington

Yes.

Clark>McIntosh

No. No way.

14-8, North still well in front, but you rate your bottom players far too high.

I don't rate the players as such, but what they're bringing at the moment to the team is what gets us excited.