KPP Stocks - What We Have & What We May Need

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Reading through the board this year and there are a lot of posters that seem to believe that our KPP stocks in particular KPF are quite barren, with not much talent to get excited about. However I don't believe that is actually the case. So lets break it down and have a look at what we have in hand and what we may need moving forward.

Established KPP
Jack Riewoldt - 34 year old in possibly his last season, currently holding down the number 1 KPF role after Lynchs injury, form has been up and down this year often reflecting the way the team has performed.

Tom Lynch - 30 year old with a couple more seasons left on his deal. Out injured with a broken foot at the moment with some reports that he may not return this year, as well as him having slimmed down a little bit to take some stress off his lower body for when he does return.

Robbie Tarrant - another 34 year old in possibly his last season, unfortunately a back injury has prevented him for playing more than a few minutes at VFL level this season. Likely to retire at seasons end.

Noah Balta - 23 year old with 76 games under his belt and has established himself as our prime KPD moving forward. About to enter the prime years of his career 24-27. Locked away for another couple of years having re-signed a few weeks back.

Fringe KPP
Tylar Young - 24 year old who was got an opportunity to play with our VFL team in 2022 and did enough to get himself picked up as a rookie in 2023. Came into the side in round 2 and barring injury has held his spot. Has one of the best 1-1 win % among KPD and comes across as a bit of mix between Astbury & Grimes as a defender, i.e. no fuss get the job done type. Played 10 games so far, should be around 20 games by seasons end.

Ben Miller - been around for 6 seasons now and has finally been able to start putting his hand up for a spot in the 22. Played 11 games in 2022 and 8 games so far in 2023 after spending 2020 & 2021 being trained up as a KPF/ruck. Turns 24 at the end of August and has got 20 games under his belt now. Should continue to get opportunity this year as a KPF who also does some ruck work.

Samson Ryan - 22 year old 206cm 104kg KPF/ruck with 14 games who has spent most of this season in the side as a ruck/forward filling the holes left by Lynch and Nankervis injuries. Hasn't really taken a game by the scruff just yet, but has shown glimpses of what he could become. Kicked 3 goals in his first game against the Crows as the 3rd option behind Jack and Lynch, then showed his ruck skill in games against Geelong and WCE. Many are suggesting he'll be a ruck, which I agree with, but with Nankervis & Soldo both having up to 5 years left, we could look to make Ryan a forward who rucks. At VFL level he kicked 30.20 playing that sort of role across 23 games in 2021/2022 seasons, which included 5 hauls of 3+ goals. Give him another 12-24 months in the gym to build up strength while playing 2nd fiddle to Lynch and he could be ready to take the number 1 KPF role from 2025 and beyond.

Josh Gibcus - 20 year old who played 18 games in his first year to establish himself as a KPD we could build around alongside Balta. Was ranked inside the top 15 for 1-1 defensive contests win % at 21.3 last year. When you look at a potential back 6 built around Balta Gibcus & Young it's a young and exciting group, that could become the next generations version of Rance Astbury & Grimes(not saying they'll be as good, but in terms of the structure they'll allow us to play). Has missed all of this year with a hamstring issue which is a slight concern, however has spent a lot of time around the group, even flying to interstate games even though not playing, which suggests he's spending time with Rutten in the background building an understanding of our systems and structures, which may lead to him being the on field leader when he returns.

Developing KPP
Bigoa Nyuon - 22 year old who has played the 1 AFL game so far, been at the club since 2019 rookie draft. Initially picked up as a KPD from the Saints Next Gen academy, Biggie has found himself moved up the ground to become another ruck/forward option. As some attributes that suggest he could be a handy tall utility that could play KPP at either end. Has a good leap, can mark and kicks the ball well, however he also has issues like Chol used to display where he seemingly doesn't like contact. Out of contract at seasons end so could find himself let go initially then re-drafted.

Kaelan Bradtke - 22 year old 195cm 95kg KPF, who was picked up as a SSP pick beating out Quinton Narkle for the final spot on our list at the time. Debut game at VFL level kicked 5 goals and then broke his hand which forced him our for a few weeks. Since returning hasn't quite hit the same highs but has kicked 13.11 in his 7 full games. For a kid that has come from playing bush footy and a couple of games for Sydney VFL side in 2022, he has shown that he has something to work it moving forward and should be retained as a rookie heading into 2024.

Jacob Bauer - 21 year old MSD pick from 2022 who had kicked 23.15 in his first 12 games at the club, before necessity forced him to be moved down back for the past 8 weeks, where he has also looked quite good at times. Similar height to Jack at 192cm, but still under 90kg Bauer is a more mobile KPP who uses his athleticism to good effect. Like Nyuon & Bradtke is out of contract at seasons end, but should be given another year to see if his develop can continue.

Current List Summary
When you break it down like this we actually have a good blend of KPPs with an even spread of established/fringe KPPs plus young development projects in the VFL. Obviously we're likely to see a couple of the established group depart with Jack & Tarrant moving on, but they'll be replaced by fringe types stepping up to fill the void in 2024.

What Do We Need?
This is where it gets interesting, as there is a school of thought that we need to go shopping and get ourselves a ready made option like Harry Himmelberg to slot straight into the 22. It does make sense to investigate the ready made market especially if we feel that we're a real shot of making a genuine push at a flag next year, however I personally don't see that being the case and feel that a player like HH isn't what we need, but rather we need to go a get a genuine long term replacement for Lynch.

If you look at how we've gone this year with an aging Riewoldt, that we could be better served by going with Lynch supported by the fringe players in 2024, which continues their development and put all our efforts into securing a genuine long term Lynch replacement at the end of 2024, there has been talk abut us watching Ben King at the Suns, while Todd Marshall & Mitch Georgiades at Port are 2 others that have got the attention of some supporters as possible targets. Any of the 3 would provide us with a good 7-10 years of service as our number 1 KPF.

Finally there is the idea that has been floated of trying to turn one of Balta or Gibcus into a KPF moving foward. Personally I'm not a fan of either of them being switched from the back line. As I mentioned above, if we can settle Balta Gibcus & Young into the key defensive roles our back line should be sorted for the next decade, especially with the likes of Banks & Brown who could come in to replace Vlastuin & Broad down the track.

Hopefully this breakdown not only gives fans a bit of a look at where things stand and what may unfold between now and the draft as we look to solidify our KPP stocks for the foreseeable future.
 
Agree - we should be after Ben King or similar type. HH imo is overrated (and based on recent reports incredibly overpaid) and I'd rather invest the $ into getting the Lynch replacement and let our developing players fill the JR #2 tall role. JR will play a role next year anyway.

At this rate we'd only be investing another 250-350k a year to get King over HH.
 
BIGGY and Bauer won't make it or let alone cut it for small stints at AFL level and are in great danger of being delisted.
Bradtke the common theme he's got to get fitter. He's great below the knees , competitive in contests when he gets to them, but drops too many marks bc of poor positioning due to his lack of fitness to get to the right spots.
Need to find one that is ready to go asap.
 

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Need some new blood for me Biggie , Jack and Tarrant will be gone and questions on Soldo and Bauer. Bauer is no defender for me again play him in his natural position. Miller needs game consistency after 6 seasons and lift talent there. Gibcus I would try forward he played there as a junior and with Balta and Young gives us options now settled in defence.Either way with him in our defence we're set for the next 5 to 7 years if it goes that way . Kaelan Bradtke needs to get fit to much puppy fat for obvious reasons , but there's something there to work with.

Overall we need to draft 2 to 3 tall stocks to develop ,last year they we're there we ignored it even late have a look at Scully at Port and target free agency aswell.
 
Our KPF depth sucks

Riewoldt - Gone
Tarrant - Gone

AFL
Lynch - Forward 2-3 years left.
Miller - Ruck / forward
Ryan - Ruck / forward

Balta - Backman
Gibcus - Backman
Young - Backman

VFL
Nyuon - unknown not sure, agile and flexible but has he actually had any break out games?
Bradtke - unknown playing forward with little help
Bauer - unknown touted as a forward, been playing back

Those 3 VFL players are not ready, I'd be very surprised if they will even be ready next season. They are developing players and picked up as rookies. Then once if they do get game in the AFL, you will need 25 games in them. So, all 3 are still 2-year prospects at the earliest.

If our clubs plan is to play Miller forward once Jack goes and his output is like it was last weekend, then I'll agree and say we don't need anyone else and we should be just looking at a Lynch replacement, however Miller has not shown us enough to say we have our solution.

Then you have to take into account injuries, Lynch has been out most of the year and isn't getting any younger, Ryan who we are trying to fast track is now injured. From next year when we don't have Riewoldt, who is going to play forward if Lynch gets another injury? We are going to expect one of those 3 VFL players to step up. Then, when they don't perform watch this board melt and ask them to be delisted. (Young is a perfect example here, is getting played makes an error and this board is very quick to tell us he is useless even though it's his 1st year)

Balta & Gibcus should never play forward, they need to be our key backs for the next 10+ years. At least that's one area of the ground we don't have to be concerned about.

Our team list overall is actually quite decent, we have most of it covered going forward but our KPF is of major concern, and it needs to be addressed.
 
Have been impressed with Ben Millers recent form especially his improvement in his forward craft, I can see other clubs such as the Swans, looking for a cheaper option than Harry H, and we may see a number of other clubs asking questions about both him and Soldo eg Geelong
 
I had great hopes of Ryan being ready to go as our second KPF but he get still pushed off the ball too much. He obviously still needs time to develop his core strength. Miller could step into the role too. He has a more developed body, has greater speed and goal sense. He hasn't the reach of Ryan but, atm, he is a better combination for Jack up forward. In the future though, I feel it'll be the other way around.

Unfortunately, I don't have much hope for our other forward stocks. They may surprize me but they are no where near the same caliber as Jack or Tom.

If we can get Himmelberg for the next 5 years for nothing more than an over inflated contract, I'd go for it. The list managers will know if we risk losing other players with cap space squeeze. Given our culture though, this rarely seem to happen to us. So the Himmelberg acquisition seems like a free hit to me.

For mine, I'd look to use our 2024 first pick in the draft for a tall forward. I'd even trade out a quality player to bundle up with our pick to get as high of a pick as we can to improve our chances at bringing in a quality replacement.
 
Ryan is a backup ruckman who can be rested up forward and hopefully get a mismatch and bring ball to ground or hopefully take a mark. He'll never be a Number 1 forward because he's not good enough. Adding more bulk and waiting years won't change that fact.

Against the bombers we or they kicked it to him in a position to mark about 40+ times. He was paid a mark up forward that clearly hit the ground, took an uncontested mark loose on the wing and outmarked a decrepit Heppel once. The other 40 times was like watching the 3 stooges I swear he even slipped on a banana peel and got hit in the face with a rake. The dude can't mark. Look how easily Mason Cox does it in comparison and you know he never played kick to kick his childhood. His strength is Ruck craft so that's what he should be playing to.

Soldo should've left last off season as he's just taking a spot and around the ground and ball on deck is a liability. Bauer, Bradtke and Biggie should've had opportunities and hopefully they will but not looking likely so we have 3 KPP who could be re-signed on any trivial basis whatsoever... Who's managers less greedy, who gets along with the big dogs and selectors.

Miller needs to be persevered with and hopefully can learn mongrel from Lynch cos he needs to bust packs and wary defenders.

I hope Gibcus can be a FWD too cos that'd be a godsend. Young does all the 1% great but disposal and composure is 💩. I'm noticing a lot of goals getting kicked when he's the nearest defender too. So I consider him Garthwaite mk II right now.

Balta and Gibcus are our KPP thoroughbreds, hopefully we can land at least 1 more in next 3 drafts. And steal another through FA?
 
I think we just need to bring in a best 22 KPP this trade/free agency period. With Gibcus' flexibility it doesn't particularly matter if it's a KPD or KPF, we would make it work. HH or McKay are the obvious ones being free agents, Georgiades as a trade if not one of those two.
George will never be the big cohuna so I’m not selling the farm for him
 
George will never be the big cohuna so I’m not selling the farm for him
Wouldn't have to sell the farm for him. He was terribly out of form this year before he did an ACL so there is a fair bit of risk taking him on. Wouldn't cost more than pick 30 I don't reckon. Straight swap for Jack Graham maybe. Doesn't have to be the big Cohuna either with Lynch around for a couple more.
 
Wouldn't have to sell the farm for him. He was terribly out of form this year before he did an ACL so there is a fair bit of risk taking him on. Wouldn't cost more than pick 30 I don't reckon. Straight swap for Jack Graham maybe. Doesn't have to be the big Cohuna either with Lynch around for a couple more.
I’d swap for JG no problem ,,, I think soldo has trade currency like so too
 

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Soldo should've left last off season as he's just taking a spot and around the ground and ball on deck is a liability.


We've barely managed to juggle our ruck injuries as it is, why would we have deliberately worsened that situation as a list management strategy last year?

Sure, Soldo has barely got on the park, but it may well be him that has 12+ games and Nank, or Ryan who has been sidelined for all the games he has. You can't manage a list solely from the benefit of hindsight.

As for the argument we should have replaced him with another ruck, you need only look at the contracts Mab and CCJ are now on, plus the calibre of other lists' 'back-up' rucks, plus the fact even Sydney who have been decimated in the ruck can't find anything worth taking in the PSD, to see where Soldo ranks value-wise to our list in the medium-long term.

He'd have still been worth holding even knowing in advance he was going to play this little, there's bugger all mature age rucks of any medium-long term worth out there on the market.
 
We've barely managed to juggle our ruck injuries as it is, why would we have deliberately worsened that situation as a list management strategy last year?

Sure, Soldo has barely got on the park, but it may well be him that has 12+ games and Nank, or Ryan who has been sidelined for all the games he has. You can't manage a list solely from the benefit of hindsight.

As for the argument we should have replaced him with another ruck, you need only look at the contracts Mab and CCJ are now on, plus the calibre of other lists' 'back-up' rucks, plus the fact even Sydney who have been decimated in the ruck can't find anything worth taking in the PSD, to see where Soldo ranks value-wise to our list in the medium-long term.

He'd have still been worth holding even knowing in advance he was going to play this little, there's bugger all mature age rucks of any medium-long term worth out there on the market.

It's not hindsight I wouldn't have given an injured fringe player a 3 year deal to begin with. I would've gladly traded Soldo and Graham last year whist they had some perceived currency. GWS wanted Soldo and Ralph Smith so could've held onto our 1st rounder.

Miller, Biggie can play ruck adequately. Hell even players such as Grigg, Pickett and Shane Tuck played adequate as ruck previously. Last year Soldo was putrid, repeatedly he couldn't even read the flight of the ball on his own. He'd shuffle forward then shuffle back and the ball would go 2m over his head or drop a couple Meters in front of him.

And when the ball hit the deck in his vicinity forget it the oppo was off to the racers. Even before he went down with injury 3 years ago he was a limited player who's only real weapon was height and if he marked within 25m he'd generally convert. Only thing is that fooled the selectors that he could play resting ruck in the FWD line, which he couldn't. He averages 2 marks a game and 0.3 goals a game across his career.

So many times up forward he'd actually hinder Lynch by spoiling or blocking him, you rarely saw him take a big mark or block a defender allowing Lynch to lead, he just always seemed to get in the way. Generally when Soldo and Nank played together they both stunk. He really should be looking elsewhere cos Ryan and Miller are going to be played ahead of him.
 
Miller, Biggie can play ruck adequately. Hell even players such as Grigg, Pickett and Shane Tuck played adequate as ruck previously.


None of those players have ever come remotely close to proving they are an 'adequate' first ruck, and for very obvious reasons (i.e. no coach who had any choice in the matter would ever play them in the role long term), none of them ever will.

We - and every other side in the comp - play giants like Nank and Soldo in the role because they're the only type of player strong enough to wrestle for position for full games/seasons, and capable of consistently copping the endless physical battering. That means every list seriously contending needs a minimum of two giant, mature aged, genuine first ruck options.

Sure, a lot of people can pinch hit, you can probably win 11 games a season with nobody contesting the ruck if you have the right list, but if you want to challenge for a flag, you'll need one, preferably two, fit, giant rucks to pull it off. Just like we and every other side in modern history have. All the recent flags have been decided in the ruck more than any other position - ours included.

Which brings me back to my original point - he's not replaceable like for like with anything remotely as good.

And assessed as a genuinely good ruckman by our club and multiple others - so I think it would be fair to say that your opinion on his worth is hardly reflective of those within the industry. :thumbsu:
 
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Whatever happened to understanding that young talls take time to develop into their bodies and gain the strength that allows them to genuinely compete against opposition KPPs. But it appears that if the young guys we have aren't showing something by the end of the year or during next year that we need to give them the flick and start again, whereas I don't see that to be the case. I think we need to show patience with these kids, given most of them are yet to complete their 3rd season at the level. In fact it's only Nyuon & Miller that have completed more than 3 years at the club. So maybe, just maybe instead of looking for the quick fix, we can actually take our time and have a genuine look at what we've got to deal with. Never know you may just be surprised.
 
Toby Greene - best CHF since Carey.:thumbsu:
 
Silvagni is the go. 2nd forward and ruck cover. Cheap!

SITEasdasddd get GIF
 
Wouldn't have to sell the farm for him. He was terribly out of form this year before he did an ACL so there is a fair bit of risk taking him on. Wouldn't cost more than pick 30 I don't reckon. Straight swap for Jack Graham maybe. Doesn't have to be the big Cohuna either with Lynch around for a couple more.

no way Port let him go cheaply. huge ceiling
 
Spitballing here but... Ben Brown as a stop gap between JR8 and Ben King?

I imagine he'd come incredibly cheap at 30yo. Out of favour at the Dees with Goodloss preferring to play no one instead of him.

Rather him on 500 than HH 7 years @900
 

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KPP Stocks - What We Have & What We May Need

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