Legalising heroin...

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Originally posted by bunsen burner
Where do you get yours from?
nice avoidance of the question

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Bullsh*t.
clearly you have got no idea about the methadone program so i dont know why you bother. Probably arent aware of the mandatory unine tests either.

Originally posted by bunsen burner
True, but irrelevent. Are you also aware that some get their methadome and then sell it?
again, complete ignorance of how the program is run.

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Are you also aware that methadone is also addictive? People who do actually give up end up being addicted to methadone. The only difference is they get it for free and no long have to do crime to pay for their habit. Sort of similar to your whole point about making H legal.
and morbitity related to methadone dependence is...?
 
Originally posted by nicko18
1) the customers would buy from the rooms. Would you, for example, or anybody else you know, try a street dealer not knowing whats in it for a similar price?
Competition. Simple economics. If the govt set a price, then people will match it. I don't think the govt would be able to set a price that is low enough to destroy the competition. They would have to import or grow opium and pay all sorts of wage bills to manufacture it. if they just imported it they would have much higher overheads than a normal dealer - admin and wage bills whereas a dealer doesn't pay wages.


Hard to get a black market going with $10 hits.
See above. Makes no difference what the price is. An illegal importer will have far less overheads and therefore would be able obtain cheaper heroin. BTW: The black market would easily be able to accomodate $10 / 10th of a gram hits. I don't think you are aware of the mark up.


But $10 hits are far less a problem crimewise than $100+ and its easier to come off under supervision than self administrating doses.
There's no such thing as a $100+ hit. If a junkie is getting $10 hits they could be needing between 1 and 20 a day to support their habit. The rough price these days hovers around $30 a hit. All you would be doing is making it cheaper. Crime might be reduced a bit but there's be no shortage of junkies who would up their intake.
 

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Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
A couple of questions. Is Methadone free in N.S.W ? And do users have to take their dose on the spot or can they take them away?
I don't know if it's free, but they can take it away with them. I have known clinics elsewhere where they have to have it on the spot and some junkies don't swallow it and come out and spit it into another junkies mouth who is 'clucking'.

I've also seen a guy sell urine to some other junkies out the front of a clinic. When they worked it out they chased him, pulled him out of his car and kicked the crap out of him.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
nice avoidance of the question
How bout you tell me where you get your info from and then I'll explain to you why it is unreliable. My source is unquestionable.


clearly you have got no idea about the methadone program so i dont know why you bother. Probably arent aware of the mandatory unine tests either.
Maybe you're not aware that heroin is out of your system within 24 hours making a urine test a waste of time.


again, complete ignorance of how the program is run.
So why have I seen people come out with a small square black vial thing and sell it? Why do I used to know junkies who used to do this?



and morbitity related to methadone dependence is...?
You're going to have to clarify what you're asking here.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
I don't know if it's free, but they can take it away with them. I have known clinics elsewhere where they have to have it on the spot and some junkies don't swallow it and come out and spit it into another junkies mouth who is 'clucking'.

..............

Yeah I've witnessed that charming practice myself. Hep B anyone?
In Victoria the chemists (who are supplied FOC) charge users on the programme between $4 and $7 (depending on the chemist) for a "dispensing" fee. And it's meant to be consumed on the spot and the chemist is meant to check that the user has swallowed before he leaves. I say meant to. Take aways are available in bottles once someone has been on the programme a certain amount of time and behaved themselves (eg: "reasonably" clean urine tests). It's amazing the amount of bottles that get accidently broken before the take away dose can be consumed.
 
Originally posted by nicko18


clearly you have got no idea about the methadone program so i dont know why you bother.
So you probably wotk in a methodone clinic. And you claim to know why most junkies go on the program. If they have ulterior motives, do you really think they are going to tell you that they are just in it for the freebie? No. A condition of being able to get methadone is that you have to be an addict, and that you have to be trying to get off H. They're not going to give people free methadone for the sake of it. Junkies aren't going to tell clinic staff or community workers, or probation officers what's really going on.

So I've heard all the tricks of the trade from the junkies and you've most likely heard from the people that junkies lie to. Now who do you think has the better source?
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
.......

Maybe you're not aware that heroin is out of your system within 24 hours making a urine test a waste of time.


........

Whilst most users start "hanging out" after 24 hours , Heroin like other opiate based drugs lasts in the system for up to 72 hours.

For example we use to get patients that would use on the weekend and come in on Tuesday to do their test thinking they were clear and it would show up.
Also as a matter of interest don't know about elsewhere but in Victoria these days if the urine test will show positive for opiates it will then breakdown what opiate it was. Be it Codeine, Morphine, Pethadine or Heroin. Before it just use to show Opiates - Positive , so patients would say "Oh yeah I took a Panadene".
 
Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
Whilst most users start "hanging out" after 24 hours , Heroin like other opiate based drugs lasts in the system for up to 72 hours.

For example we use to get patients that would use on the weekend and come in on Tuesday to do their test thinking they were clear and it would show up.
Also as a matter of interest don't know about elsewhere but in Victoria these days if the urine test will show positive for opiates it will then breakdown what opiate it was. Be it Codeine, Morphine, Pethadine or Heroin. Before it just use to show Opiates - Positive , so patients would say "Oh yeah I took a Panadene".
So in your opinion, how many of these people do you think were genuine about kicking the habit?
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
So in your opinion, how many of these people do you think were genuine about kicking the habit?

To be perfectly honest of the progamme I'd say 25% would be serious about getting off and cleaning up. Another 10% would be kidding themselves that were going to get off and clean. Somewhere around 55%-60% would be using the methadone as a way of controlling hanging out between hits (if you know what I'm trying to say), and what's left would be there for various legal reasons (Court Orders, access visits etc). That's approximate but pretty close.

Methadone. Along with Fanta and the Volkswagon Nazi Germany's lasting legacy for the world.
 
I'm in two minds about this.

I have grown up seeing people suffer and die from the drug. I work right next door to a needle exchange program, and our office has been the target of theives. That really ****es me off.

I do think there is a need for safe injecting rooms (stopping spread of Hep, HIV).

No wonder I avoid the drug like the plague.......
 

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Originally posted by Fullarton Power
And morals intact.
But they're your morals, not everyone else's. And you want them to be forced onto everyone else no matter what the cost. Like I said, people like you often have their head in the sand.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
But they're your morals, not everyone else's. And you want them to be forced onto everyone else no matter what the cost. Like I said, people like you often have their head in the sand.
And there's no prizes for guessing where you've got your head, if you think legalising this garbage is a good idea. Might as well legalise assault, battery, robbery, burglary. murder and manslaughter as well.
 
Originally posted by Fullarton Power
And there's no prizes for guessing where you've got your head, if you think legalising this garbage is a good idea. Might as well legalise assault, battery, robbery, burglary. murder and manslaughter as well.
Go read the thread idiot.

You'll see better reasons why it shouldn't be legalised than why it should. But you seem to have a 'I don't care, I don't want to listen, nah nah nah nah, I don't want to weigh up both sides of the argument, it's wrong by my morals, so zero tolerance it must be' attitude. And you proved that by not even reading the thread. You goose.
 
Originally posted by Fullarton Power
Might as well legalise assault, battery, robbery, burglary. murder and manslaughter as well.
Only an idiot could make this comment. Please explain to me the relevance of this statement.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Go read the thread idiot.

You'll see better reasons why it shouldn't be legalised than why it should. But you seem to have a 'I don't care, I don't want to listen, nah nah nah nah, I don't want to weigh up both sides of the argument, it's wrong by my morals, so zero tolerance it must be' attitude. And you proved that by not even reading the thread. You goose.
For your information, I did read the thread. Ask any 80 year old defenceless pensioner if heroin should be legalised so the lowlifes who use it can access it more easily, and then bash them senseless in the streets and inside their homes with even more nauseating regularity than they do now, if that's possible. YOU goose.
 
Originally posted by Fullarton Power
For your information, I did read the thread.
Are you really this stupid?

If you read the thread you would know that I'm against legalising H. I also told you in plain english a few posts ago that I was against it.

Do you have any comment about this?

Ask any 80 year old defenceless pensioner if heroin should be legalised
I can make my own informed decisions thanks. In any case, don't you think asking a cross section would be better than asking 80 year females?

so the lowlifes who use it can access it more easily, and then bash them senseless in the streets and inside their homes with even more nauseating regularity than they do now, if that's possible. YOU goose.
A typical comment from an ignoramus.

1. Easier access to heroin will not necessarily increase violent crime
2. Do you have stats that back up that heroin addicts are responsible for a higher percentage of female pensioner bashing that other non-addicted criminals?

You really are a fool. I almost feel embarassed for you.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
1. Easier access to heroin will not necessarily increase violent crime
And no access whatsoever will dramatically reduce violent crime. Severe penalties will reduce it even further. Getting rid of bleeding heart small 'l' liberals and reintroducing some moral standards into sociery might just eradicate it completely.
 
In reality, we should find an island, round up all IV smack users, place them on that island, give them food, drugs whatever it takes to keep them away from mainstream society, which they abuse and detest so much anyway.

As far as I'm concerned, the minute you stick the needle in your arm, your on a road to nowhere. The funny part being that nearly everyone that starts, thinks that they wont get caught up in it. Well, like I've stated previously, I only have to be told once not to play on the freeway, same thing with these people.

Whats even worse is that these scum ( and they end up living like parasitical scum, so lets not be all politically correct here) get free needles, where my sister who has been diabetic since 14, has had to pay for her needles just to maintain her health.

Free drugs, for sure, off shore, out of our society, away from dear old grannies who can't walk the streets, or feel safe in their homes. Think about the benefits to us all, we will have less burgs, theoretically less insurance premiums, less power to drug dealers, less acid washed jeans, less needlestick injuries, less HIV contracted through IV users, less street violence, less unemployable people.

Now I know this will upset some of you do gooders, but remember this, I'm all for the state supporting those that legitmately need support, I believe in social welfare, what I dont believe in is people making choices, (very bad choices) and calling on the rest of society to support them for doing what they have been told not to do.
 
You are an absolute rdneck knob aren't you?

Originally posted by Fullarton Power
And no access whatsoever will dramatically reduce violent crime.
How will we have no access?

Please answer - I'm in need of a good belly ache.

Severe penalties will reduce it even further.
What's the most severe punishment?

A. Death penalty

They have death penalty in America. Does it reduce crime?

A. No

Maybe you should rethink your uneducated stance?


Getting rid of bleeding heart small 'l' liberals and reintroducing some moral standards into sociery might just eradicate it completely.
Who's morals? Yours? Why yours? How do you know they are moral? Why do you think you are the benchmark of morals?

You are a prize idiot.
 

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