Leon,Pendlebury,Swan= Elite Midfield

[Frankie23]

FFS, Davis and Pendlebury are elite players now.

Look at Leons form over the past 18 months or so, he has been unreal, and atm you would have him in the top 10 players in the comp.

Whilst Pendlebury's skills are outstanding, leading the comp in disposals along with Swan and uses the ball with precision.

I would have Swan one level below in the very good category.

Add Didak, Lockyer, O'Bree and it looks very good.

 

[Optimax]

We played the worst team in the comp folks.

They are a rable. A WAFL team probably would have taken them.

um, so the team that freo and sydney struggled against worst in the comp?

even worse then Melbourne

Get stuffed, we beat who they put in front of us. We didnt have anywhere near our best 22 either

 

[PieLebo87]

Dane Swan's value to the team is similiar to Shane O'Bree's in a sense that back in the days when we had no real midfielders other than Buckley, Shane O'Bree was Collingwood's best midfielder, and he'd have his 30 possession average. With younger midfielders coming through like Davis, Swan and Pendlebury coming through over the last few seasons, he has taken a backwards step, and become less valueable, but his consistency never suffered, and he was is still is contributing to the team on a consistent basis. Very rarely do we see O'Bree have a complete shocker.

Dane Swan is exactly what O'Bree was 7-8 years ago. He has been our best midfielder for the last 2-3 years, but was never quite elite, and never quite WILL BE elite due to his disposal, similiar to O'Bree. As players like Sidebottom, Beams, McCarthy and Thomas develop their midfield game and become consistent fixtures, you'll see Dane Swan, with no less consistency, become less important to us, because these guys will hurt the opposition more, with Pendlebury, Davis and Didak helping out. He is a B+ grade AFL midfielder, and we've never had higher, but Davis and Pendlebury are now A grade midfielders, and we'll hopefully have those younger names become A and A+ midfielders whilst Swan, still a very useful midfielder, stagnent as a B-B+ midfielder. Make sense?

 

[Frankie23]

Dane Swan's value to the team is similiar to Shane O'Bree's in a sense that back in the days when we had no real midfielders other than Buckley, Shane O'Bree was Collingwood's best midfielder, and he'd have his 30 possession average. With younger midfielders coming through like Davis, Swan and Pendlebury coming through over the last few seasons, he has taken a backwards step, and become less valueable, but his consistency never suffered, and he was is still is contributing to the team on a consistent basis. Very rarely do we see O'Bree have a complete shocker.

Dane Swan is exactly what O'Bree was 7-8 years ago. He has been our best midfielder for the last 2-3 years, but was never quite elite, and never quite WILL BE elite due to his disposal, similiar to O'Bree. As players like Sidebottom, Beams, McCarthy and Thomas develop their midfield game and become consistent fixtures, you'll see Dane Swan, with no less consistency, become less important to us, because these guys will hurt the opposition more, with Pendlebury, Davis and Didak helping out. He is a B+ grade AFL midfielder, and we've never had higher, but Davis and Pendlebury are now A grade midfielders, and we'll hopefully have those younger names become A and A+ midfielders whilst Swan, still a very useful midfielder, stagnent as a B-B+ midfielder. Make sense?

So Dane Swan, the B+ midfielder who cam 3rd in the Brownlow and won a B&F last year...

Swan is a very very very good player, in a previous post i said he wasn't elite yet, and many people are saying he will never be elite, but he is 25 and in his prime now, he WILL be elite by seasons end.

 

[rose jam]

Swan can do something most of the so called elite midfielders can't do - go forward and mark overhead (only Ablett could match Swan for top level midfielders who could damage forward, well of course Neon is the most damaging)
Swan is also an elite clearance player, kicking 40+ is an issue though

 

[Damon_3388]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

Just for people's information, in terms of the Champion Data Player Ranking, Leon Davis is 2nd in the league, and Scott Pendlebury is 4th, and Dane Swan is 24th. The CDPR appears to be the most accurate statistical measurement available to determine a player's impact on the game (as it credits 1%ers, values forward-moving and Inside 50 kicks and handballs more than sideways or backwards ones, and penalises a player for turnovers or errors). Take from that what you will.

 

[PieLebo87]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

I'd rather stick to the old tradition of WATCHING how a player goes than worry about every little stat such as how many times he tripped over his foot, whether he broke wind, or if he coughed.

 

[Al Scorcho]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

I'd rather stick to the old tradition of WATCHING how a player goes than worry about every little stat such as how many times he tripped over his foot, whether he broke wind, or if he coughed.

not sure if you get ranking points for any of those things...or was that just a cynical "my point is better than your point" response full of sarcasm...like this one

 

[swiftdog]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

Just for people's information, in terms of the Champion Data Player Ranking, Leon Davis is 2nd in the league, and Scott Pendlebury is 4th, and Dane Swan is 24th. The CDPR appears to be the most accurate statistical measurement available to determine a player's impact on the game (as it credits 1%ers, values forward-moving and Inside 50 kicks and handballs more than sideways or backwards ones, and penalises a player for turnovers or errors). Take from that what you will.

Stats can't prove the effect that Ablett and Judd have on a game compared to Swan and Pendlebury. Davis does have the same impact as Ablett and Judd but needs to be consistent throughout the rest of the year to be considered elite. An elite player you know will produce his best week in and week out, not "If he plays at his best today he'll have an impact".

 

[Jabso]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

Just for people's information, in terms of the Champion Data Player Ranking, Leon Davis is 2nd in the league, and Scott Pendlebury is 4th, and Dane Swan is 24th. The CDPR appears to be the most accurate statistical measurement available to determine a player's impact on the game (as it credits 1%ers, values forward-moving and Inside 50 kicks and handballs more than sideways or backwards ones, and penalises a player for turnovers or errors). Take from that what you will.

Champion data rankings aren't that bad, but they aren't infallible. Presti will still never ever get a high score but still be in our top 5 players this year. I know they look at 47 different statistics and it's weighted on the time and situation of the game, however key position players are still screwed by the scoring system.

I'd like to see a complete break down of the ranking and how they arrive at that figure. For example would Brad Dick's pressure be reflected in any real statistical way? What about his ability to keep the ball alive and his deft little taps? Are handballs under pressure considered ineffective? To me they are often worse than turnovers.

As far as the op goes I don't think it's an elite midfield yet. It has the makings of one, but needs perhaps one more player to step up to their level and supporting players to become solid players.

 

[Jabso]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

Stats can't prove the effect that Ablett and Judd have on a game compared to Swan and Pendlebury.

There's no reason why they can't though. It may be insanely complicated but you could quantify Ablett stepping through a pack of 3 and running so many metres forward, even give a stat for creative plays or weight certain stats on creativity. I know it's subjective but so are stats like hitouts to advantage, effective disposals, clearances (have a look at Herald Sun [Champion Data] vs The Age [Prostats]). Getting a bit off topic here.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

Pendlebury and Swan - #1 and #2 in the competition for disposals, #2 and #3 for disposals per game (behind Ablett)... Not that that makes them elite or anything...

Those suggesting that Pendlebury isn't there yet... How much is he going to be leading the league by when he gets there?

 

[Axl the great]

Re: Leon Davis, Scott Pendlebury and Dane Swan = Elite Midfield

IMO the real gauge is sustainabiltity, Pendles is in elite form but is not yet an elite player, Ablett has done it for 3 years now week in week out and in other sports you have Tiger Woods, Le Bron James, Kobe Bryant, Rodger Federer, Kelly Slater etc.
These are all guys who sustain dominance over a period of time, Pendles and even Davis must produce this over the next 2 years to be considered elite players, at the moment they are players in elite form.

 

[shawthing09]

Our midfield unit is not elite yet. Pendles and Davis are playing elite football. Swan is in that Sewell type range. Unfortunately the depth is not queit there yet. We have guys like Corrie and Cook running on the outside who don't have the required skill. O'Bree who whilst he is a great club servant and good player is not clean enough etc.

We have some midfielders playing elite football at the moment, and a midfield that as a group are statistically matching it with all the teams in the catergorys that matter. They are not an elite group yet. A couple of years into Beams, Sidebottom and J mac as well as Thomas running onthe outside will hopefully change that.

 

[Subtemperate]

Yeah Elite is a strong word. Brisbane won flags, with and Elite midfield. The Eagles won a flag with one, geelong have dominated the last few years with one..... Lets not just get ahead of ourselves just yet.

Pendlebury and davis are stars of the competiton so far this year, but I think Elite is not something you are until you have made some acheivements as a group.

 

[Kirby]

good posts above by shawthing and subtemperate!

I agree with them both.

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

These 3 are stars..... Pendlebury, how the hell did he rack up 38 possessions.... I had a bet on Leon racking up the most stats, and it was looking good, only danger was Swan, then Pendles just comes in and kicks me in the guts... Oh well cant complain, happy with the win. Dane Swan is just a complete champ.... Love his attitude, doesnt think about the injury just continues to soldier on. Good Roll model, just everyone should have WWSD tattoed on their hand "what would swanny do?". Leon Davis, is just having a cracker of a year, and I agree on Malthouse saying his past 5 years have been very good.... Always kicking goals or racking up stats, good on him...

 

[Dogs_Playing_Poker]

Good Roll model

hahaha sorry, excuse spelling, was eating a "Roll" as I was typing this, hence the incorrect use of the word "roll" when in fact it should be role.... apologies

 

[Trojan82]

I don't think you can ever have only 3 players make up an elite midfield.

They are certainly an elite Dreamteam midfield!

If you've had those three in your midfield all year your on a winner!

For shame....I have not had any of them

 

[DaVe86]

Statistically we are elite.

We have the 2 leading disposal getters in the comp (Pendlebury & Swan)

Leon Davis missed a game but is right up there on Champion Data averages.

I don't have up to date statistics on clearances, but last i check we had Pendlebury, Fraser, Swan and O'Bree all in the top 20.

O'Bree is ranked 4th for tackles as well.


Realistically we lack something. But I was cynical of Leon Davis becoming a midfielder, but he has proven me wrong. He is our equivalent of Judd or Ablett. Not comparing him to those 2, but thats the impact he has to our team...and has more goal scoring presence i reckon.


Really waiting for Sidebottom and Beams to get 50 games under their belt, then i think we have an elite clearance division and the polish outside.

 

[understudy]

Statistically we are elite.

We have the 2 leading disposal getters in the comp (Pendlebury & Swan)

Leon Davis missed a game but is right up there on Champion Data averages.

I don't have up to date statistics on clearances, but last i check we had Pendlebury, Fraser, Swan and O'Bree all in the top 20.

O'Bree is ranked 4th for tackles as well.

On clearances if you look at all the stats available I belive they reveal sure we win clearances but dont hurt the opposition from them.

We are also ok at stopping the opposition from winning clearances, but when they do they have a high percentage of hurt factor from them, ie they kick goals etc.

Looks simple stats wont reveal much, you really need to look quite deep and in great detail to get much out of them. Even then they wont tell you everything.

 

[Coppings Dukes]

Interested to know what people who watch him each week think about Leons chances of polling well in the Brownlow this year are if he can maintain this form. I know his history of voting is not great, but his stand out games this year seem to be full of class and at 126-1 he might be a bit of value.

 

[Axl the great]

Hes into $101 now cause i had $50 on him yesterday.