Analysis Level-Headed Discussion

[Swamp Pie]

Fitness is appalling. Both mentally and physically

Is it possible they have trained so hard they are cooked even as the season starts? Bill Davoren come on down.

Actually think it is more likely that team selection has focussed too much on inside grunt at the expense of outside run. We are a very slow side compared to the Doggies and Ports of this world. How many slowish gut runners like Blair Crisp Greenwood Adams (even Pendles % Sidey) do you need in the 1 midfield.

 

[1892]

Disappointed to see no mention of Nathan Brown in this thread.
Again, another week without a tackle stat. How can a backman not have stats for tackles?
He offers nothing week in, week out. Goes to show just how important Maxwell and Lumumba were to the backline structure.

Like the rest of our back line he was probably too busy minding vacant space.

 

[sirlothie]

Is it possible they have trained so hard they are cooked even as the season starts? Bill Davoren come on down.

Actually think it is more likely that team selection has focussed too much on inside grunt at the expense of outside run. We are a very slow side compared to the Doggies and Ports of this world. How many slowish gut runners like Blair Crisp Greenwood Adams (even Pendles % Sidey) do you need in the 1 midfield.

We really need Sidebottom back.

 

[Run n Spread]

To spite running the great start in 2015 and running the top teams very close last year and things seemingly looking very positive and a great pre season etc etc, there has been 3 wins out of 14. 1. Was barely getting over a bottom Carlton 2 Geelong in a dead rubber 3 Richmond who coughed it up.

So while the list is talented youth wise this is a downward spiral. Or was this to be expected and everyone is too impatient?

 

[GoalSneak07]

Let's be fair dinkum regarding our list.. all 3 games so far have been horrendous.

Backline:
Players like Sinclair, Williams, Maynard etc aren't AFL footballers. Williams and Sinclair in particular have now played enough footy at senior level to actually have the brains to man their opponents up. I love that they back themselves in and run the ball up the field but when their disposal is not of AFL standard and the ball comes crashing back down they're nowhere to be seen when their opponent has so much space. Countless times this season I've seen Pendles have to man the mark in the back half because our not very intellegent backman try and play heroes and run the ball up the ground when infact they're only role players and if in a good side would know their role..

Brown and Frost are not AFL standard key backs. Brown body is breaking down at an alarming rate. We need a decent backman can't rely on Ben Reid.

Midfield:
Is too slow and not accountable at the bounce we were smashed in the middle today by a younger and hungrier midfield. A guy like Greenwood should be used to tag players of Montagna or Stevens quality instead of them running a muck whilst our guys in the middle wonder around chasing kicks..

Leads to Buckley's coaching.. ordinary.

Forwards:
What was the point of Howe playing forward all day? How about chucking him down back as a spare man at least we could have made them more accountable when they were going inside 50. Nope nothing done all day. A useless debut from Howe really.

Moore had 2 defenders on him all day, how about getting someone down there, yet even chuck Pendles or a resting mid down there to make their backline guess a little more.. nope nothing done all day.


Coaching:
Maynard selection back in puzzled me, the kid's not upto AFL standard.
Use of Jeremy Howe
The zone.. don't get me started..
Midfield setup and structure didn't change. A good coach would mix things up, the only exception was Cloke in the ruck which wasn't too bad.

 

[boxy99]

Well after this game we all know what needs to happen!

 

[esc0bar]

I had the pleasure of watching game today from the top of the ponsford stand. I had the pleasure of seeing how ineffective our game plan was. Zoning needs to go. It has to. We can execute it. The season is doomed if we don't drop it.

Either way it was good to see Oxley taking some grabs and Howe wasn't too bad.

 

[Mateyman]

Is it possible they have trained so hard they are cooked even as the season starts? Bill Davoren come on down.

Actually think it is more likely that team selection has focussed too much on inside grunt at the expense of outside run. We are a very slow side compared to the Doggies and Ports of this world. How many slowish gut runners like Blair Crisp Greenwood Adams (even Pendles % Sidey) do you need in the 1 midfield.

Crisp is not slow

 

[doodles98]

this thread has a boring title

 

[The Plowking]

this thread has a boring title

Plenty of other ones to fap away in.
Keep it real.

 

[jmac70]

I thought I would create a place where we could discuss what actually went wrong with the game, without any theatrics.

We really didn't pressure the Saints enough. Their run was barely even countered, and we couldn't lay a tackle to save our lives. The forward line targets were bested by the Saints defence, but I guess that wasn't helped by the fact oure midfield couldn't get it in cleanly. And our back line... Zoning needs to go out. We play our best when we are man-on-man and backing our players to pressure and win the footy, not when we trust each defender to cover a piece of the field.

And with Williams probably out, our small defender stocks are running low. We really don't have anyone to bring in who plays his role do we?

They won because of their uncontested possession. Hawks style of footy that we don't seem to ba able to replicate or counter. Bucks keeps going on about contested possession but it is irrelevent and has been for years. We have a coach who is at least five years behind the rest.

 

[Gymnorhina tibic]

They won because of their uncontested possession. Hawks style of footy that we don't seem to ba able to replicate or counter. Bucks keeps going on about contested possession but it is irrelevent and has been for years. We have a coach who is at least five years behind the rest.

This! Montagna had 30+ handball receives, Savage set up most of their first half goals, this was obvious at half time FFS

 

[TradeDraft]

We never been the same since Maxwell Left.

Backline lacked a Leader down there since he went down Injured that finished his Career

 

[BPikkers]

A complete breakdown in gameplan and structures. Whether that's players not listening, coaches not communicating, the plan itself being broken, or a combination of all three, it was just a thrashing from the coaches box, much like the Sydney game.

When you can't generate any meaningful ball movement yourself, it means you have numbers in the wrong place with ball in hand. When you can't stop the 18th-ranked team pinpointing passes all the way down the field without laying a finger on the ball or a Saints jumper, it means you have numbers in the wrong places in defence. When you're outnumbered every time there's a contested ball to be won, whether it's forward, back, middle or wing, it means you have numbers in the wrong place when the ball is in dispute.

So whether it's borne of workrate issues, motivation issues, tactical issues or coaching issues, we're in a really, really bad spot right now. The days are long gone where we can say it was "just one of those days". It's an alarming pattern - our gameplan and structures have broken down to the point of ineptitude more often than they've succeeded for the past three years now.

I think this is the best post. I've been a Buckley fan, however, after today's game, it seemed we do not have a game plan. Either that, or our players are too lazy and are not implementing it.

The opposition have so many uncontested possessions that its ridiculous. The amount of marks inside 50 from loose players is unacceptable. Not sure if it's the fault of the defense or whether our midfielders only run one way.

The players are far too static. Overall very disappointing. I thought last weeks game would have seen us turn things around. What's worrying is that we have been awful all 3 games this year.

Terrible!

 

[BPikkers]

Positives: Nathan Freeman got through his comeback game unscathed and had 46 touched in three quarters.

Oh wait...

Well he played in the 3rds didn't he? Sandy reserves?

 

[jasonwilde]

Fitness is appalling. Both mentally and physically

And the kicking is shit.

Can anyone think of a brilliant AFL player who is fit AF and was a brilliant kick?

Does my head in.

 

[jasonwilde]

And I can't find the positives thread.

But yeah, we're not as shit as Carlton.

 

[BPikkers]

And I can't find the positives thread.

But yeah, we're not as shit as Carlton.

We haven't played them yet

 

[jasonwilde]

We haven't played them yet

Lose to them and that's the end of me.

(Have a brother that goes for them)

 

[Scodog10]

Uncontested differential 2016:

Western Bulldogs +108
Hawthorn +87
Essendon +44
St Kilda +27
Sydney +26
Gold Coast +21
GWS +20
Adelaide +14
Richmond +13
North Melbourne +13
Carlton +6
Geelong -25
West Coast -30
Port Adelaide -50
Brisbane -56
Melbourne -66
Fremantle -78
Collingwood -81

Of the 22 completed matches in 2016 the team with the most uncontested possessions has won 15 of them. We've been going one way with a deliberate focus on winning the contested ball and dominating at the coalface whereas the teams that are performing are investing in uncontested ball. It's pretty ****ing damning, IMO.

Edit: I haven't edited the differentials, but with GC and West Coast getting up it's now 17 of 24.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Obviously we are at a low point. I hope we are at the bottom, and can only go up, but I'm not hopeful. Too many of our players are making basic mistakes, which indicates a 'head' issue. We have talented players, but too many were off their game today and against the Swans.

I don't have a solution but this is what I'd like to see:

• Less of us in the news for non-footy related stuff. I hate what Robbo did, but from here on we should put this injustice aside and get on with improving our football.
• I'd like Eddie to try and gag himself for the remainder of the season, and not make big statements about us or have a go at other clubs or the AFL.
• I'd like Bucks to flog these guys on the training track, and dish out some tough love.
• And I'd like some genuine leaders to emerge on the field and take some responsibility.

Vicky well said.
The off field stuff, agree enough. Let's have a quiet Eddie for 2016.
On field leadership beds lifting.
What about just getting the ball and using it better.

 

[JB1975]

They won because of their uncontested possession. Hawks style of footy that we don't seem to ba able to replicate or counter. Bucks keeps going on about contested possession but it is irrelevent and has been for years. We have a coach who is at least five years behind the rest.

Contested possession is far from irrelevant. Like a lot of key indicators it can suffer from people placing too much emphasis on it, but it still matters. Few teams are so elite in their disposal or can run and link so effectively as to nullify the importance of winning the ball, not even Hawthorn.

Having said that, I watched Bucks' post-match, and he seemed a bit hung up on the fact that we won the CP. He seemed to find it baffling, which I found baffling. We had to win our ball, then we had to keep winning it back after coughing it up. The Saints just played keepings off, which we allowed them to do.

 

[TradeDraft]

Uncontested differential 2016:

Western Bulldogs +108
Hawthorn +87
Essendon +44
St Kilda +27
Sydney +26
Gold Coast +21
GWS +20
Adelaide +14
Richmond +13
North Melbourne +13
Carlton +6
Geelong -25
West Coast -30
Port Adelaide -50
Brisbane -56
Melbourne -66
Fremantle -78
Collingwood -81

Of the 22 completed matches in 2016 the team with the most uncontested possessions has won 15 of them. We've been going one way with a deliberate focus on winning the contested ball and dominating at the coalface whereas the teams that are performing are investing in uncontested ball. It's pretty ******* damning, IMO.

So are we Lazy/Don't Care or Not Fit enough?

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

Uncontested differential 2016:

Western Bulldogs +108
Hawthorn +87
Essendon +44
St Kilda +27
Sydney +26
Gold Coast +21
GWS +20
Adelaide +14
Richmond +13
North Melbourne +13
Carlton +6
Geelong -25
West Coast -30
Port Adelaide -50
Brisbane -56
Melbourne -66
Fremantle -78
Collingwood -81

Of the 22 completed matches in 2016 the team with the most uncontested possessions has won 15 of them. We've been going one way with a deliberate focus on winning the contested ball and dominating at the coalface whereas the teams that are performing are investing in uncontested ball. It's pretty ******* damning, IMO.

You'd think that the Pies gameplan of contested footy is probably one of the most taxing as well considering it's based around zoning and contests.

Seems to me they have a plan that is way ahead of what the players can actually carry out.

 

[mckenna6575]

Real challenge to be level-headed after that. Resigned to a long, pretty miserable season maybe - is that being level-headed?

It's just tough to watch us being outplayed in EVERY SINGLE AREA by a team we are expected to beat, probably even beat comfortably - outrun, outkicked, outpassed, outhandballed, outtackled, outthought, outnumbered (despite playing against 19), outmuscled, ok that'll do...

It just looked like the 2 teams were playing different games, we looked like we'd come over from Ireland and couldn't adapt to the odd-shaped ball.

I thought we'd come up in the second half and we'd gain a bittersweet victory - undeserved but still 4 points - but in fact, we have to face it, at the moment we are a very poor team and being made to look clueless and incompetent by better organised opposition.

Great to have Sidey and Varcoe back next week, but that's not going to change much - we are VERY average and we have to examine every aspect of our game. When the report says Best: Adams, Langdon, Oxley, Pendlebury but we all know it should say Best: None you know you've got a systemic problem - they're good players, but they look like they have no ideas at the moment

And that's being level-headed....