Liam Jurrah being held by police -Sen

[Brown Bottle]

This is now AUSTRALiA and people need to accept AUSTRALIAN LAW. Not Sharia law, not tribal law.
You can own the land though it may be debatable in some cases.
Australia was not going to sit empty for 200 years. If the british didn't colonise it, the french/portugese/dutch/indonesian/chinese would have settled it. The lifestyle of the natives was doomed. In case you haven't noticed there are no big countries in the world with only a few natives living in it. Australia was conquered/settled. Britain was conquered/settled. Europe was conquereed/settled. You cant put it back forget about trying.


We are all told that we should not be racist , sexist etc . These are old abhorant ways of thinking.
Well tribal law is an ancient abhorant system that should not be allowed.

Indiginous Australian can be equals or they can be "savages" ( as described by the settlers/conquerers ).

There is no room for brutal tribal law in the shared society we need to have. We would be brutal and racist to protect our own children while allowing this kind of crap to go on.

Mainstream Australia is trying to grow up, the indiginous communities need to as well. The past is important but you cant go back, and there is no point in re-living it.

I feel dumber for reading this. Have you also got a "**** off, we're full!" sticker on the back of your ute?

You can't mandate or legislate cultural integration. It requires time and understanding. The Warlpiri value system is no less valuable than yours whether you understand it or not.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I feel dumber for reading this. Have you also got a "**** off, we're full!" sticker on the back of your ute?

You can't mandate or legislate cultural integration. It requires time and understanding. The Warlpiri value system is no less valuable than yours whether you understand it or not.

OK we'll all spear our kids if they act disrespectful Or we'll all go back to where we came from or somthing.

Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
Barbaric customs should not be continued. Or should the "whitey"s go back to their time honoured tradition of wiping out aboriginals because thats what they used to do back in the days of the great empire you know, how dare you stuff with our traditions.

Please educate me and any other "dumb" big footy readers. Under what circumstances is it suitable to spear someone.
And what about the system where someone offends someone, so you apply a highly sophisticated system called "payback", which then offends the original perp and family, so they then go for "payback" which then causes more payback. Oh its so obviously beyond my ignorant understanding.

And I dont have a ute, and the only sticker on my car say's Saints Member.

 

[Brown Bottle]

OK we'll all spear our kids if they act disrespectful Or we'll all go back to where we came from or somthing.

Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
Barbaric customs should not be continued. Or should the "whitey"s go back to their time honoured tradition of wiping out aboriginals because thats what they used to do back in the days of the great empire you know, how dare you stuff with our traditions.

No-one is asking you to adopt their value system, but just because you don't understand it, it doesn't make it wrong!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

No-one is asking you to adopt their value system, but just because you don't understand it, it doesn't make it wrong!

So you endorse a racist system where different laws are applied to different people depending who their parents were. Do you propose an option to opt out if they don't want to be speared for trivial crimes.

 

[Brown Bottle]

So you endorse a racist system where different laws are applied to different people depending who their parents were. Do you propose an option to opt out if they don't want to be speared for trivial crimes.

I endorse and respect cultural diversity and don't pretend to understand (or judge) the intricacies of a value system that isn't my own but has been around for a hell of a lot longer than my own. Are the Warlpiri fighting in your backyard or something?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

One thing that shits me about the equality issues with indigenous cultures and white cultures is that the indigenous cultures always seem incapable of compromise - it's a one way street for them.

The want the same rights and privileges as our 'white folk', yet the also want special consideration to act in ways that would land 'white folk' in jail for a significant period of time.

There has to be some middle ground with both parties for it to work amicably.

It genuinely frustrates me because our indigenous people deserve better than what they're getting in the main.

 

[awaremind]

OK we'll all spear our kids if they act disrespectful Or we'll all go back to where we came from or somthing.

Just because something is traditional doesn't make it right.
Barbaric customs should not be continued. Or should the "whitey"s go back to their time honoured tradition of wiping out aboriginals because thats what they used to do back in the days of the great empire you know, how dare you stuff with our traditions.

Please educate me and any other "dumb" big footy readers. Under what circumstances is it suitable to spear someone.
And what about the system where someone offends someone, so you apply a highly sophisticated system called "payback", which then offends the original perp and family, so they then go for "payback" which then causes more payback. Oh its so obviously beyond my ignorant understanding.

And I dont have a ute, and the only sticker on my car say's Saints Member.

Spearing i guess was easy cos they couldnt lock people up.
Maybe they shouldnt do it.

Barbaric is just a r*****t word. Outdated is probably more accurate. They do need to adapt to our times as we all do but there is probably valuable stuff that we can learn from them too.

Should the Mongolians go back to attacking europe?

 

[Brown Bottle]

Oh its so obviously beyond my ignorant understanding.

It certainly seems that way. Perhaps you can share with us your intimate knowledge of the entire value system of the Warlpiri people, and how their culture has survived for thousands of years if they're as barbaric and "simple" as you suggest in your summary? The circular nature of tribal violence that you've described would surely have resulted in a "World War" and they would all have been extinct long before settlers' boats reached these shores?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It certainly seems that way. Perhaps you can share with us your intimate knowledge of the entire value system of the Warlpiri people, and how their culture has survived for thousands of years if they're as barbaric and "simple" as you suggest in your summary? The circular nature of tribal violence that you've described would surely have resulted in a "World War" and they would all have been extinct long before settlers' boats reached these shores?

I didn't mention "simple" but "barbaric" as defined by the oxford dictionary "savagely cruel" is exactly how I would describe some of the tribal punishments.

Their culture survived for thousands of years through isolation.
Just because its old doesn't mean its good. Are we not trying to better ourselves.
We do not punish our own children with corporal punishment, despite it being a time honoured tradition.

Maybe you think the "culture" should be preserved because it is unique and interesting. Do you enjoy viewing it like you would view animals at the zoo, while not being forced to be a part of it?

Here's a guy who was subjected to barbaric punishment because he didn't follow the racist instructions of his elders.

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/law/tribal-punishment-customary-law-payback
__________________________________________
I got speared in the leg, too, for being cheeky. I got hit on the head, too, by all my old people. The spear came out of the calf of the leg. My old father did that. I was a cheeky bloke fighting the other fellas over some silly things I been doing in my young days. I was going with the wrong girls. My skin group is Milangka. I was with someone from a wrong skin group…
After you've taken your punishment then people don't worry about you.—Henry Long, Aboriginal man [1
__________________________________________

 

[Brown Bottle]

Their culture survived for thousands of years through isolation.

Firstly, this discussion belongs on the SRP Board, not in this thread. Isolation wouldn't have preserved "their culture" if it was the vicious cycle of escalating retribution that you described. They would have killed each other long ago.

Just because its old doesn't mean its good. Are we not trying to better ourselves.

Why do you keep imposing your value system on others? Maybe the Warlpiri don't want a 4x2, a new Mazda 3 and a job cleaning toilets at Stockland. Did you ever stop to think that your definition of "better" is defined by the culture you grew up in, and that doesn't automatically make it "better" for everyone else?

We do not punish our own children with corporal punishment, despite it being a time honoured tradition.

Who is "we"? Are you speaking for me?

Maybe you think the "culture" should be preserved because it is unique and interesting. Do you enjoy viewing it like you would view animals at the zoo, while not being forced to be a part of it?

Who said I enjoy viewing it. I am a long way removed from it. I don't feel the need to judge it, or to take a colonialist view of "inferior natives". Once I might have studied it to better understand it, but I chose not to pursue anthropology as a career, even though it interested me greatly.

Here's a guy who was subjected to barbaric punishment because he didn't follow the racist instructions of his elders.

http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/law/tribal-punishment-customary-law-payback
__________________________________________
I got speared in the leg, too, for being cheeky. I got hit on the head, too, by all my old people. The spear came out of the calf of the leg. My old father did that. I was a cheeky bloke fighting the other fellas over some silly things I been doing in my young days. I was going with the wrong girls. My skin group is Milangka. I was with someone from a wrong skin group…
After you've taken your punishment then people don't worry about you.—Henry Long, Aboriginal man [1
__________________________________________

Is he complaining about it? It seems to me that he accepted his punishment and got on with his life, and no grudges were held. Sounds barbaric to you. Sounds egalitarian to me. Again you feel the need to impose your cultural values onto others...

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Firstly, this discussion belongs on the SRP Board, not in this thread. Isolation wouldn't have preserved "their culture" if it was the vicious cycle of escalating retribution that you described. They would have killed each other long ago.
Why do you keep imposing your value system on others? Maybe the Warlpiri don't want a 4x2, a new Mazda 3 and a job cleaning toilets at Stockland. Did you ever stop to think that your definition of "better" is defined by the culture you grew up in, and that doesn't automatically make it "better" for everyone else?


Is he complaining about it? It seems to me that he accepted his punishment and got on with his life, and no grudges were held. Sounds barbaric to you. Sounds egalitarian to me. Why do you feel the need to impose your cultural values onto others?

Suppose I was the rednecked racist you more or less accused me of being. I could claim that it was part of my culture and therefore should be accepted by others.

Am I allowed to smack my children. Sometimes I still do it, though I am bombarded with information that says I shouldn't. Now I am to understand it is not OK for me to smack my children, even though its part of my history and heratige, yet for others its OK to spear their children.
Is it OK for me to spear my children?
I think you are quite racist in your stance.
As were the elders who speared Mr Long for getting with the wrong woman.
But obviously its OK to be racist if you are an indiginous australian.

 

[Brown Bottle]

Suppose I was the rednecked racist you more or less accused me of being. I could claim that it was part of my culture and therefore should be accepted by others.

Perhaps you could try harder at not giving that impression if it concerns you that I might think that about you.

Am I allowed to smack my children. Sometimes I still do it, though I am bombarded with information that says I shouldn't.

I'm not judging you.

Now I am to understand it is not OK for me to smack my children, even though its part of my history and heratige, yet for others its OK to spear their children.
Is it OK for me to spear my children?
I think you are quite racist in your stance.

I will respectfully choose not to value your opinion. I doubt that you will garner a lot of support.

As were the elders who speared Mr Long for getting with the wrong woman.
But obviously its OK to be racist if you are an indiginous australian.

I think what you have referenced is tribal, not racist. Maybe you should think about that...

p.s. Maybe you should have read on a little further? From the same source that you referenced:
Should tribal law change?

Aboriginal people want to keep their culture, respect their ancestors and their law. This puts them into a dilemma: How does this fit into the contemporary legal world, and how can Aboriginal people also claim equality and human rights?
“We can’t do that without changing the [traditional] law,” says Aboriginal woman Bess Price [4]. “But we need to change it ourselves, others can’t do that for us. Only we can solve our own problems and we will do it in our own way. But we really need the support of governments and our fellow citizens.”

 

[EXNICKS]

"I was going with the wrong girls. My skin group is Milangka. I was with someone from a wrong skin group"
Are Aboriginals RACIST?
Sounds like it to me.

 

[Brown Bottle]

"I was going with the wrong girls. My skin group is Milangka. I was with someone from a wrong skin group"
Are Aboriginals RACIST?
Sounds like it to me.

It's pretty hard to be racist where your own race is concerned. It's eminently possible to be tribal.

As an example, if my sons ever bring home a Collingwood supporter I will probably spear them in the calf. Understand?

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

It's pretty hard to be racist where your own race is concerned. It's eminently possible to be tribal.

As an example, if my sons ever bring home a Collingwood supporter I will probably spear them in the calf. Understand?

That's the only thing I don't understand.

 

[EXNICKS]

It's pretty hard to be racist where your own race is concerned. It's eminently possible to be tribal.

As an example, if my sons ever bring home a Collingwood supporter I will probably spear them in the calf. Understand?

This aint Football, this is RACISM, plain an simple. Read it properly, the WRONG SKIN GROUP (COLOR)!
I am part of the HUMAN RACE, therefore by your standards, Racism cannot exist! Its all Tribal!
The White Tribe, The Yellow Tribe, The Black Tribe, etc, etc.
Get real1
As soon as people STOP identifying themselves to a certain race, that is when Racism will stop.
If you push for certain rights for a certain peoples (Tribes), you will always have Racism, Because we are not equal!
One Land, One Law, One People!

 

[Ted38]

This aint Football, this is RACISM, plain an simple. Read it properly, the WRONG SKIN GROUP (COLOR)!
I am part of the HUMAN RACE, therefore by your standards, Racism cannot exist! Its all Tribal!
The White Tribe, The Yellow Tribe, The Black Tribe, etc, etc.
Get real1
As soon as people STOP identifying themselves to a certain race, that is when Racism will stop.
If you push for certain rights for a certain peoples (Tribes), you will always have Racism, Because we are not equal!
One Land, One Law!

Sounds ok to me but don't hold your breath waiting for it to ever happen!

 

[EXNICKS]

Sounds ok to me but don't hold your breath waiting for it to ever happen!

It will NEVER happen, to many people in the Racism industry!

 

[awaremind]

given the disproportionate amount of indigenous people in prison, who is to say that a our system is working that well
or b they are not under our law.

This aint Football, this is RACISM, plain an simple. Read it properly, the WRONG SKIN GROUP (COLOR)!
I am part of the HUMAN RACE, therefore by your standards, Racism cannot exist! Its all Tribal!
The White Tribe, The Yellow Tribe, The Black Tribe, etc, etc.
Get real1
As soon as people STOP identifying themselves to a certain race, that is when Racism will stop.
If you push for certain rights for a certain peoples (Tribes), you will always have Racism, Because we are not equal!
One Land, One Law!

How would you be liking it if the japanese won ww2 and we had to adopt thier culture, law etc?
Or should there be one rule over the whole world ideally?
Nationalism isn't much better than Racism imo.

 

[Brown Bottle]

This aint Football, this is RACISM, plain an simple. Read it properly, the WRONG SKIN GROUP (COLOR)!
I am part of the HUMAN RACE, therefore by your standards, Racism cannot exist! Its all Tribal!
The White Tribe, The Yellow Tribe, The Black Tribe, etc, etc.
Get real1
As soon as people STOP identifying themselves to a certain race, that is when Racism will stop.
If you push for certain rights for a certain peoples (Tribes), you will always have Racism, Because we are not equal!
One Land, One Law!

What exactly do you think "Milangka" is? Maybe you should read the quote properly and do some research instead of inferring something from the use of a word like "Skin".

We don't live in the 1920's any more. Societal change doesn't happen on the end of a gun.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

given the disproportionate amount of indigenous people in prison, who is to say that a our system is working that well
or b they are not under our law.



How would you be liking it if the japanese won ww2 and we had to adopt thier culture, law etc?
Or should there be one rule over the whole world ideally?
Nationalism isn't much better than Racism imo.

Seriously, we would probably be liking it as much as any other Japanese subject, unless they were acting in a manner racist towards their captives in which case we would feel repressed.
No doubt our bitter twisted parents would try to instill us with hate, and fill our head with nonsense about the "good old days".
Couldn't see us clinging to the old ways as much to be honest. Its amazing how American the Japanese have become since the war. How are the Japanese liking it? Also amazing how many westerners eat Sushi. World war 2 was far more recent than the colonisation of Australia. Poor example really.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What exactly do you think "Milangka" is? Maybe you should read the quote properly and do some research instead of inferring something from the use of a word like "Skin".

We don't live in the 1920's any more. Societal change doesn't happen on the end of a gun.

This sort of insinuates that our mainstream society has moved on vastly during the last 90 years, while you advocate that another society within it should remain stagnent as it was thousands of years ago. You must surely think they were living the utopian dream.

Why do you declare standards for mainstream society but not for the minority group?

 

[Brown Bottle]

This sort of insinuates that our mainstream society has moved on vastly during the last 90 years, while you advocate that another society within it should remain stagnent as it was thousands of years ago. You must surely think they were living the utopian dream.

I'm suggesting that your utopia is not everybody's utopia. Is it possible that indigenous Australians were just as (if not more) advanced in their thinking as White Colonialists when it came to their social fabric? Yep. Just because they weren't riding around on steam trains it doesn't invalidate their culture. My understanding about the whole "Skin Groups" thing is that it prevented in-breeding amongst small nomadic tribes; behaviour that is still tacitly endorsed in Western civilizations today through institutions such as Royalty. You mightn't agree with the punishment but it's hardly a racist construct.

Why do you declare standards for mainstream society but not for the minority group?

When did acceptance and understanding need some sort of societal standard to be set? If you genuinely believe that indigenous cultures haven't endured change since the colonisation of Australia (even in the most remote parts of our great land) then there is no need for further debate in this thread.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm suggesting that your utopia is not everybody's utopia. Is it possible that indigenous Australians were just as (if not more) advanced in their thinking as White Colonialists when it came to their social fabric? Yep. Just because they weren't riding around on steam trains it doesn't invalidate their culture. My understanding about the whole "Skin Groups" thing is that it prevented in-breeding amongst small nomadic tribes; behaviour that is still tacitly endorsed in Western civilizations today through institutions such as Royalty. You mightn't agree with the punishment but it's hardly a racist construct.

When did acceptance and understanding need some sort of societal standard to be set? If you genuinely believe that indigenous cultures haven't endured change since the colonisation of Australia (even in the most remote parts of our great land) then there is no need for further debate in this thread.

I wouldnt think so, and not because of the steam trains ( which were certainly not used widely by the colonists at the time ).

Almost always. If some guy is a pedophile, I'm not sure that acceptance and understanding is appropriate. ( extreme case example ). If someone wants to honour the time honoured tradition of getting drunk and having a punch up in a bar and maybe a glass to the face, should there be acceptance and understanding or is this something we would prefer to eradicate from our society?

 

[Ted38]

Firstly, this discussion belongs on the SRP Board, not in this thread.
.

It does now thanks to you and similar like minded cretins.