Unsolved Lisa Govan(missing) Coronial Inquiry - WA

[Badge666]

I always suspected Lisa Govans disappearance was related to the Claremont Serial Killer abductions and the Cutler and Tate crimes. All attractive young women leaving nightclubs in the early morning.
The recent raids on the OMG gang premises are interesting, in that the WAPOL bumblers appear to be focusing right away from that possibility ,and putting the spotlight back on the bikies.
Several years prior to Lisas disappearance there was a very well publicised and tragic case in which a young mother alleged she was gang r*ped by members of a related bikie gang chapter near Albany.
Several of the gang members were charged, but from memory the woman involved suicided before they wert to trial..
The rumoured "bikie gang code of silence" pertains more to the fact that members are discouraged from giving police statements.
in reality bikie clubs are no different to other organisations re loose talk and gossip, members and their wives and girlfriends are in constant formal and informal interaction with senior police due to criminal behaviour and court appearances . It would be very very hard to keep a bikie related murder of an innocent woman quiet for so long in a relatively small town like Kalgoorlie IMO.

 

[Sherrinator2018]

Eventually the truth will come out. If its an inquest people face jail for purgery.

 

[GreyCrow]

I had always thought it was related to OMCG and nothing I have read has changed my mind.

 

[BlueE]

A couple of contacts told me last week the bikies weren't overjoyed about the raids at their properties.

Heaven help whoever brought them the heat.

They don't like murderers of innocent women either.

I tend to think Smarty is correct here. Don't think the Dero's were involved, or they like the murderers of innocent women.

Police said they were concentrating on the time after she was at the bikies clubhouse.

"We've had a number of people who were living in Kalgoorlie at the time come forward and provide us with times and their movements when they saw Lisa on the 8th of October, 1999.

"From that we've narrowed down the timeframe to 7:30-7:45 of that morning.

"What we're doing at the moment is trying to verify those times by timelining their movements from certain locations to where she was sighted on Boulder Road."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/police-have-new-leads-in-lisa-govan-investigation/9374650

 

[Claudia Renner]

I tend to think Smarty is correct here. Don't think the Dero's were involved, or they like the murderers of innocent women.

Police said they were concentrating on the time after she was at the bikies clubhouse.

"We've had a number of people who were living in Kalgoorlie at the time come forward and provide us with times and their movements when they saw Lisa on the 8th of October, 1999.

"From that we've narrowed down the timeframe to 7:30-7:45 of that morning.

"What we're doing at the moment is trying to verify those times by timelining their movements from certain locations to where she was sighted on Boulder Road."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/police-have-new-leads-in-lisa-govan-investigation/9374650

I share your thoughts Smarty and BlueE.

 

[BlueE]

I share your thoughts Smarty and BlueE.

Interesting.... I hope there will be some new information coming out soon?

 

[Sherrinator2018]

A lot of problems with these type's of crimes are people on the peripheral, non patched members.
OMC clubs simply dont need the heat but dealings mean those not bound by patch can cause trouble.
I guess it pays to filter visitors. I dont think this will relate to patched members.
It will be someone on the peripheral like Wark who shares interests but not immediate ties with the club.
Obviously OMC Gangs code of conduct varies tremendously.

 

[Sherrinator2018]

So the timeframe between the Dodd crime and Govan disappearance is 71 days.
Wark must have hung around for the quick sale of his house which appears to have been to shearer Kahu Smiler.
Police have looked into any relationship or association the purchaser may have had with vendor or mortgagee.
I guess we need movements of Wark which police would have.
Im betting Wark had no fixed address for a while

 

[Sherrinator2018]

So Lisa 'shared a taxi' with a bald man and went missing.
There is something new.

 

[theartofwar]

A couple of contacts told me last week the bikies weren't overjoyed about the raids at their properties.

Heaven help whoever brought them the heat.

They don't like murderers of innocent women either.

Yeah they really seem to hate those nasty murderers of innocent women. Going so far as to not give any information to help solve the case. Well done.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/violent-times-in-reign-of-bikie-gangs-ng-ya-210395

During the Cheaters-Deroes war, the Deroes had to cope with unwanted police attention over the disappearance of 28-year-old Lisa Joanne Govan. She had vanished after last being seen outside the Deroes' Kalgoorlie-Boulder clubhouse at 7.30am on October 8, 1999, where she had arrived earlier from a nightclub in a taxi.

Govan was believed to be dead, dumped down one of the thousands of mineshafts dotting the Goldfields, and members of the bikie gang were murder suspects. The Deroes stayed true to their code of silence and much to the anguish of Govan's family, the disappearance remains unsolved.

 

[BlueE]

Yeah they really seem to hate those nasty murderers of innocent women. Going so far as to not give any information to help solve the case. Well done.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/violent-times-in-reign-of-bikie-gangs-ng-ya-210395

During the Cheaters-Deroes war, the Deroes had to cope with unwanted police attention over the disappearance of 28-year-old Lisa Joanne Govan. She had vanished after last being seen outside the Deroes' Kalgoorlie-Boulder clubhouse at 7.30am on October 8, 1999, where she had arrived earlier from a nightclub in a taxi.

Govan was believed to be dead, dumped down one of the thousands of mineshafts dotting the Goldfields, and members of the bikie gang were murder suspects. The Deroes stayed true to their code of silence and much to the anguish of Govan's family, the disappearance remains unsolved.

Is Smarty due back or something? You really do only come on to have a go at him I think?

Read the latest 2018 police reports posted on here, not a 2010 report. The police have done their duty in cutting up the old club room floor, and now they have credible information from new sources, not bikies.

The time frame they're interested in is 7.30 to 7.45 am. Hopefully this will come out soon.

 

[Dan Baker]

Yeah they really seem to hate those nasty murderers of innocent women. Going so far as to not give any information to help solve the case. Well done.

https://thewest.com.au/news/australia/violent-times-in-reign-of-bikie-gangs-ng-ya-210395

During the Cheaters-Deroes war, the Deroes had to cope with unwanted police attention over the disappearance of 28-year-old Lisa Joanne Govan. She had vanished after last being seen outside the Deroes' Kalgoorlie-Boulder clubhouse at 7.30am on October 8, 1999, where she had arrived earlier from a nightclub in a taxi.

Govan was believed to be dead, dumped down one of the thousands of mineshafts dotting the Goldfields, and members of the bikie gang were murder suspects. The Deroes stayed true to their code of silence and much to the anguish of Govan's family, the disappearance remains unsolved.

As Badge666 said,

"The rumoured "bikie gang code of silence" pertains more to the fact that members are discouraged from giving police statements.
in reality bikie clubs are no different to other organisations re loose talk and gossip, members and their wives and girlfriends are in constant formal and informal interaction with senior police due to criminal behaviour and court appearances . It would be very very hard to keep a bikie related murder of an innocent woman quiet for so long in a relatively small town like Kalgoorlie IMO."

 

[Dan Baker]

Is Smarty due back or something? You really do only come on to have a go at him I think?

Read the latest 2018 police reports posted on here, not a 2010 report. The police have done their duty in cutting up the old club room floor, and now they have credible information from new sources, not bikies.

The time frame they're interested in is 7.30 to 7.45 am. Hopefully this will come out soon.

A security camera captured her climbing into a taxi at about 4.45am with a bald-headed man on Boulder Road.

It is believed she went to the Foundry Hotel on Boulder Road, which was used as the clubhouse of bikie gang Club Deroes, where she was last seen talking to two men outside the building at about 7.30am.
https://thewest.com.au/news/kalgoorlie-miner/focus-on-murder-mystery-ng-b88612096z

 

[theartofwar]

Is Smarty due back or something? You really do only come on to have a go at him I think?

Read the latest 2018 police reports posted on here, not a 2010 report. The police have done their duty in cutting up the old club room floor, and now they have credible information from new sources, not bikies.

The time frame they're interested in is 7.30 to 7.45 am. Hopefully this will come out soon.

The guy thinks I'm part of a group involved in the CSK murders. It is because of this that I find it hard to take anything he says seriously.

I have read the the 2018 reports.

Cold Case Homicide Squad detectives approached the State Government recently to request a $200,000 increase in the reward, following an extensive review of the case file.

Police Minister Michelle Roberts and Police Commissioner Chris Dawson made the announcement of the reward increase at Parliament House on Tuesday.

"We believe that this is a realistic amount of money that might encourage people to come forward," Ms Roberts said.

Ask your self what sort of people need to be "encouraged" to come forward with information about a crime, and why there was discussion as to whether this was a realistic amount. (it is not a realistic amount if you are hoping John Citizen will all of a sudden decide to phone Crimestoppers with pivotal info).

They raided two properties linked to bikies, than announced the increase.

Read through the thread again and check which three posts Claudia Renner actually liked. Given that she mentioned some posts are close to the mark.

 

[BlueE]

The guy thinks I'm part of a group involved in the CSK murders. It is because of this that I find it hard to take anything he says seriously.

I have read the the 2018 reports.

Cold Case Homicide Squad detectives approached the State Government recently to request a $200,000 increase in the reward, following an extensive review of the case file.

Police Minister Michelle Roberts and Police Commissioner Chris Dawson made the announcement of the reward increase at Parliament House on Tuesday.

"We believe that this is a realistic amount of money that might encourage people to come forward," Ms Roberts said.

Ask your self what sort of people need to be "encouraged" to come forward with information about a crime, and why there was discussion as to whether this was a realistic amount. (it is not a realistic amount if you are hoping John Citizen will all of a sudden decide to phone Crimestoppers with pivotal info).

They raided two properties linked to bikies, than announced the increase.

Read through the thread again and check which three posts Claudia Renner actually liked. Given that she mentioned some posts are close to the mark.

These reports were Oct 2017. I was talking about the latest linked above http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/police-have-new-leads-in-lisa-govan-investigation/9374650

"From that we've narrowed down the timeframe to 7:30-7:45 of that morning.

"What we're doing at the moment is trying to verify those times by timelining their movements from certain locations to where she was sighted on Boulder Road."

I find it hard to follow the historical grudges you seem to have against each other. Is he saying you're part of a group that was attacking Droc?

 

[Sherrinator2018]

So someone has seen her talking to two men outside the clubhouse.
No one can recognise them in a small town like Kalgoorlie?
Police must have a description of the two men.
That has to be a good thing.

 

[theartofwar]

These reports were Oct 2017. I was talking about the latest linked above http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-01-30/police-have-new-leads-in-lisa-govan-investigation/9374650

"From that we've narrowed down the timeframe to 7:30-7:45 of that morning.

"What we're doing at the moment is trying to verify those times by timelining their movements from certain locations to where she was sighted on Boulder Road."

I find it hard to follow the historical grudges you seem to have against each other. Is he saying you're part of a group that was attacking Droc?

Thanks I have read them, but they have known that time frame for ages. This article is from 2014 -

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...y/news-story/5c3654df079a092ed9f3a29960b8844e

 

[BlueE]

Thanks I have read them, but they have known that time frame for ages. This article is from 2014 -

http://www.news.com.au/national/wes...y/news-story/5c3654df079a092ed9f3a29960b8844e

They seem to have got another 15 minutes on the time frame. Up until 7.45 am on the morning she disappeared.

Police have spoken with the taxi driver and dozens of people who saw her that night.

Detective Sergeant Atkinson said two men she was with have been identified and are assisting police with their investigation.

Whether that is significant or not, hope we'll find out soon.

 

[one eyed spy]

Ask your self what sort of people need to be "encouraged" to come forward with information about a crime, and why there was discussion as to whether this was a realistic amount. (it is not a realistic amount if you are hoping John Citizen will all of a sudden decide to phone Crimestoppers with pivotal info).

Art of war, are you suggesting the amount of the increased reward was intended on being a sufficient amount of money to seriously cause one bikie or associate of, to roll over on another member?
If that was the case, in all likelihood only to either disappear himself afterwards or at the very least be expelled from the club with nothing, nursing some pretty nasty injuries & forever looking over his shoulder. Not likely at all I'd say!

John Citizen with information on the other hand? Yeah, I reckon if he/she was the type that had credible info & didnt have the moral compass to do the right thing in the first place and come forward to police for little or no reward, I'd say they may just be persuaded to spill for $250k for sure.

Have you considered that maybe they really couldnt help the police with their enquiries because they dont know anything? Or have you tarred and feathered them simply because of their patch perhaps, which is certainly your prerogative to do? As has been said before though, there are significant differences between clubs & in Western Australia specifically, you'll find they do all actually own & ride motorbikes at least.

I dont ever recall seeing any stats of how many calls to Crime stoppers came in from bikies either, nor heard the cops ever speak of anything that was ever passed onto them by a member completely outside of any requirements of the evidence act. Doesn't mean it wasnt provided and couldnt be investigated by police. It just means they cant rely on it as information from a witness. Which suits the cops just fine I would think considering they spend so much time trying to paint them a certain way, the last thing they'd want is to try to convince the public of a bikies credibility as a witness anyway.

In regards to the "Code of Silence". My understanding is its a phrase penned by the police and media, not a bikies code at all & probably relates more to their lack of communication with the media in reality. Which does them no favours though, considering they can & will continue to print whatever they like about them knowing full well that it wont be refuted or challenged regardless of its accuracy.

I dare say that not communicating with the police falls into the category of exercising the same right as every citizen of Australia has at common law. That is, the right to remain silent when under arrest and in the absence of any other specifically targeted laws that say otherwise, no requirement to provide police with anything other than your name and address at any other time.

Plenty of people choose not to speak to police for all manner of reasons. Afterall, what you dont say cant be twisted nor used against you & particularly relevant if you're a member of a rightly or wrongly targeted group. Not too different to the widely held sentiments of a large proportion of the African American community in USA, amongst others & including many Australian aboriginals that know enough about the law to not be coerced.

A person on trial in a court even has the right to not give evidence & a judge must inform a jury that no inference can be drawn from that choice under our laws.

Yet, this so called "code of silence" is only thrown at the bikies and they should be frowned upon for it? I think not! Afterall, a member of a motorcycle club is still a man & like every other man in the world, some are just better than others! If you ask a bikie what this "code" is, my guess is they'll tell you it doesnt exist.

 

[Dan Baker]

An inquest will apply pressure via a put. A reward will apply pressure via a pull.

If someone is going to be forced into a purgatorial position, the money might be a better option.

Money or the box, you choose. No mother ****** deal

 

[one eyed spy]

Sure, but being forced into the box doesn't come with a requirement to be administered a truth serum beforehand.
Sid Reid admitted his involvement & implicated Graham Slater in the Ora Banda situation. Slater went on trial and was found not guilty. Reid is still in jail.
Morey took the stand in the McMahon inquest & hes never been charged regardless of the unbelievable story he told.
Its not a simple choice of one or the other in most cases & forcing someone to appear doesnt ever mean the truth will be revealed.

 

[theartofwar]

Or have you tarred and feathered them simply because of their patch perhaps, which is certainly your prerogative to do?

"Forensic officers used saws and drilling equipment to collect samples from the interior of the building, the headquarters of the Club Deroes."

The same week they quadrupled the award.

It is obvious they have information that it is a bikie or an "associate".

 

[one eyed spy]

"Forensic officers used saws and drilling equipment to collect samples from the interior of the building, the headquarters of the Club Deroes."

The same week they quadrupled the award.

It is obvious they have information that it is a bikie or an "associate".

I think what it obvious is that they received information prior to increasing the reward that caused them to cut up the concrete. What they found or didnt find & how reliable that information was is unknown.
There were several rewards increased recently & I think some reasons why this may have been have already been posted by others. Realistically, $50k is chicken feed to most people and an insult to a family member desperate to have someone come forward. Its my personal belief that rewards are never provided with the expectation that it will be the key to solving the case & if Claudia Renner is correct, none have ever been paid anyway.
You may well be right though, I dont know who's involved. But I'll speculate that if it was an "associate" & they are perhaps the 2 men last seen with her who are supposedly assisting the police with their enquiries, I have an idea of who may have persuaded them to come forward.

 

[Dan Baker]

Sure, but being forced into the box doesn't come with a requirement to be administered a truth serum beforehand.
Sid Reid admitted his involvement & implicated Graham Slater in the Ora Banda situation. Slater went on trial and was found not guilty. Reid is still in jail.
Morey took the stand in the McMahon inquest & hes never been charged regardless of the unbelievable story he told.
Its not a simple choice of one or the other in most cases & forcing someone to appear doesnt ever mean the truth will be revealed.

Is Morey out of jail yet?

The problem is, $50000 is not enough money to protect yourself in the event a criminal group decide on vengeance.

A million dollars is enough to shift somewhere out of harms way. I don't mind a million dollar reward. Some of these investigations cost that each week.

Information leading to an arrest is saving money. Although not without potential issues if someone within the force gives information to an associate in acquiring the million dollar reward under false pretences.

 

[one eyed spy]

Im not sure exactly when he was taken into custody before his attempted murder trial, he may have been released already. If not, this year would have be the expiry of his full term. Sentenced on 25May05, 13yrs 4mths no parole. Could he have snuck out without a word from anyone?
Interesting proposition regarding the reward money & false pretences. Perhaps thats a general concern in offering higher rewards anyway. Someone will manipulate a situation for their own benefit. Doesnt have to be exclusive to cops or OMCs though. I'd think they'd probably find it harder to pull off to be honest, far more scrutiny.
Im sure plenty of undesirable people so inclined would consider whether it could be done & how they may go about it if they thought the reward v punishment were worthy of the attempt.