List Mgmt. List Management Discussion for 2021

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Based on where the list currently sits, Howe and O’Brien should both be moved on.

maybe but I have no issue with them as depth going forward as they can play a role in our side and are both very versatile

good teams always have a bunch of players like those two which can come in but aren't regular best 22. Maybe because we're bad now you can argue we should be taking punts wherever we can to get in new players via draft but id only trade them if it was in a package for another player, as opposed to a random late draft pick that statistically is extremely unlikely to ever play an afl game

 

[WWSD]

maybe but I have no issue with them as depth going forward as they can play a role in our side and are both very versatile

good teams always have a bunch of players like those two which can come in but aren't regular best 22. Maybe because we're bad now you can argue we should be taking punts wherever we can to get in new players via draft but id only trade them if it was in a package for another player, as opposed to a random late draft pick that statistically is extremely unlikely to ever play an afl game

It’s basically the same old same old every time they play. I would rather have two 18 year kids from the draft than waste list spots on players who offer very little.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

It’s basically same old same old every time they play. I would rather have two 18 year kids from the draft than waste list spots on players who offer very little.

yes but its just grass is greener, the actual reality is that TOB and Howe will most likely be substantially better than who we'd draft at pick 50-60

I get your point and your frustration, but I don't really think it does a whole lot to make our list better. Part of the reason they could be kept on is exactly because they're 'same old same old'. You know what you get, you can plug em in and they can play a role.

We have probably the 2nd or 3rd worst depth in the league. I think we need to hang onto these types of guys for a year or two more while we get some more talent in

 

[hardway]

There is not 1 player in our 22 today that would be part of our next challenge for the top 8.

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

There is not 1 player in our 22 today that would be part of our next challenge for the top 8.

well that seems a bit of an overreaction

may I at least recommend one Jack Scrimshaw to you? How about a Jarman Impey?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

There is not 1 player in our 22 today that would be part of our next challenge for the top 8.

Over exaggeration. But there are several players that will definitely not be - Hartigan, Shiels, Breust, Big Boy, Howe, Hanrahan, Hartley. Moore? Cousins? Frost?

And who knows with Kosi, Jeka and Lewis?

 

[hardway]

Over exaggeration. But there are several players that will definitely not be - Hartigan, Shiels, Breust, Big Boy, Howe, Hanrahan, Hartley. Moore? Cousins? Frost?

And who knows with Kosi, Jeka and Lewis?

Ok I will adjust to top 4

 

[WWSD]

Over exaggeration. But there are several players that will definitely not be - Hartigan, Shiels, Breust, Big Boy, Howe, Hanrahan, Hartley. Moore? Cousins? Frost?

And who knows with Kosi, Jeka and Lewis?

Koschitzke and Lewis will both make it in my opinion. Hopefully with better players around them over the next 2-3 years. I think Koschitzke is likely to play in defence alongside DGB in the near future.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

There is not 1 player in our 22 today that would be part of our next challenge for the top 8.

A bit harsh there, Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Impey and Lewis should be.

 

[almuz]

Ok I will adjust to top 4

Even then, we are currently looking out for the Bateman, Ladson, Campbell Brown etc. type players for our next tilt.

If our team was stacked with guns say 3peat-era and you slid Scrimshaw, Hardwick, Worpel, Lewis, CJ and maybe Kosi and Hanrahan in there as the role players with another 50/100 games under their belt, you still reckon they would drag the rest down out of the top 4?

And remember our last rebuilt team got us to 5 grannies, that is massive. A usual window looks like 1 or 2 grand finals and usual contender teams aren't nearly as stacked as our 3peat team.

 

[VandoHawk]

There are a handful of players currently on our list that are young enough and have high enough upside that they can contribute towards our next tilt, which is likely a minimum 4-5 years away. Of course a good chunk of these players will also need to work hard and address their weaknesses which is why they went later in the draft.

Day, Worpel, Hardwick, Scrimshaw, Jiath, Koschitzke & Brockman are guys I've seen enough from to suggest they're good enough to be there in 5 years. Impey/Sicily will be over 30 but potentially still there.

More speculative are DGB (given he hasn't played a game), Reeves, Lewis, Jeka, S. Mitchell, Maginness & Morris. These guys could be meaningful contributors with good development but the jury is still out.

Hanrahan, Morrison & Moore are handy role players but ideally end up nothing more than depth.

We need a lot to go right. Have to nail the next few upcoming drafts and make some bold decisions IMO.

 

[Hodgey 15]

There is not 1 player in our 22 today that would be part of our next challenge for the top 8.

Absolute rubbish.

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[dermott]

That sounds reasonable and responsible to me - that's not head in sand stuff at all.

When did he say this?

Sounds like they are just getting on with the job to me.

Refer post 2360 in Jeff Kennett thread. You Tube interview for Talking Hawks.

 

[rei154]

Here's what I reckon we should do with our current list:

Shaun Burgoyne - retire.
Ben McEvoy - Keep.
Liam Shiels - Retire/trade game has moved past him. Might get something for him though
Luke Breust - Keep
Jack Gunston - Keep
Chad Wingard - Keep/trade Good enough to net us a first rounder in a trade, would be open to it to the right team for the right pick. Completely up to him though
Tom Mitchell - Keep/trade Same as Chad
Jarman Impey - Keep
Kyle Hartigan - Keep
Sam Frost - Keep
Jaegar O'Meara - Keep
James Sicily - Keep
Tom Phillips - Keep
Blake Hardwick - Keep
Tim O'Brien - trade/delist Could be worth something, has been around for a long time and has served his purpose imo.
James Worpel - Keep
Harry Morrison - Keep/trade I still believe he has a lot of potential and hopefully another club might be interested in him too
Jack Scrimshaw - Keep
Mitchell Lewis - Keep/trade I'm not sold on him but he does a lot right. Could be our best KPF in terms of trade value.
Oliver Hanrahan - Keep/trade See Lewis but for small forwards
Will Day - Keep
Dylan Moore - Keep
Changkouth Jiath - Keep
Jacob Koschitzke - Keep
Tyler Brockman - Keep
Emerson Jeka - Keep
Michael Hartley - delist Might be a good guy around the club but I don't think he offers anywhere near enough.
Jonathan Ceglar - Keep/trade/retire/move on Cooked. Looks super defeated currently.
Daniel Howe - Keep/trade/delist See Morrison but slightly less
James Cousins - Keep/trade Could be worth something to the right team. Not so important that I think he will be a required player
Connor Nash - Trade/delist Just doesn't have it at the minute. He's young, so I'm down for delisting him but having him play with BHH for a year or two to see how he develops
Josh Morris - Rookie No player drafted at the end of 2019 should be delisted given how messed up their first season was. Has a lot of quality attributes
Damon Greaves - Keep Good depth, I still think he's got a lot to offer but is in a flat patch
Ned Reeves - Keep
Harry Pepper - Rookie Elevate from cat B
Denver Grainger-Barras - Keep
Finn Maginness - Keep See Morris
Keegan Brooksby - Keep/delist A good leader in the 2's. Break glass type player for our ruck stocks.
Seamus Mitchell - Keep
Conor Downie - Keep
Jack Saunders - Keep
Lachie Bramble - Keep

I'm hoping we make roughly 11 changes to our list this off season, probably losing some talent to get in higher draft picks and to really force the development. I don't think we'll trade away so much of our mature guys that the young'ns will be left out to dry, but I think a lot of our mid-age players will be expected to deliver a lot more next year to support the lists development.
To play finals again by 2023 isn't an outrageous ask from what we have, but we've got to be brutal and not let sentimentality/friendships dictate who we can or can't move around.

We need multiple first round picks in each of the next few drafts though, starting with this one. I'm not against us getting Horne/Sonsie with our first pick (depending on where we finish) but they're going to need another top of the range midfielder to develop with from day dot.

 

[Davo-27]

for the last half a decade or so we have been bleeding talent, what i mean is that we lose a player of value to retirement or trade ect and we dont bring in enough young talent to replace them which has created a talent drain on our club.

right now we have a bunch of fringe players as starting 22 players, we dont have the biggest injury list, but we are one of the clubs that can least afford an injury at this stage and with some of our older guys not performing and likely to retire in a year or 2, what are our plans? to try and pick up some hasbeens and maybe a handful of top 30 draft picks?

anyway players i think wont last longer than a year or 2 that are useful to us now:
Shaun Burgoyne - likely gone, was out of gas last year and is being primed for his 400th game
Ben McEvoy - tries hard, but his body is gone
Liam Shiels - i have not been a fan, but his last 2 years have been very poor, i think he has another year on his contract?
Jonathan Ceglar - has been very poor last 2 years, also has another year to go on contract i believe
Tim O'Brien - he is 27 and adds very little to the team, might stay for depth, because we have none?
Daniel Howe - 25 very ordinary career to date, could be depth because we have none?
Michael Hartley - 28, could be kept for depth or not?

(the problem with keeping depth players around is they get the AFL opportunity ahead of any quality juniors we draft)

players i think can develop

Conor Downie - i think a year or 2 in the VFL and gym time could help his game
Damon Greaves - another that time in gym and playing VFL could potentially help
Ned Reeves - i have liked how he rucks, is very tall at i believe last i heard was 211cm which is nearing Sandilands height
Emerson Jeka - has shown improvement since being drafted, especially around goal and if he can develop more could be a handy player
Denver Grainger-Barras - im hoping he gets back plays a few good games and can debut for HFC
Lachlan Bramble - has shown some qualities in pre-season, but would like to see him prove himself at VFL level
Seamus Mitchell - he has speed, but can he handle the step up to the VFL? will be interesting to see how he goes

 

[dermott]

Our list will obviously have an entirely different composition after the 2021 and 2022 draft/ trade/free agency periods. We are obliged to take a minimum of 3 draft picks each year and there is every likelihood that we will take more taking into account the rookie drafts, msd and ssp. Together with trades, fa and dfa opportunities by 2023 I would guess we will have added around 12-14 new players including at least 2 early first round draftees.

Depending on list sizes, obviously we will have moved on a similar number from the current list.

At the risk of making a statement of the bleeding obvious, we are in a rebuild which will be painful in many ways but it will be exciting to watch the young talent develop in both the VFL and the AFL over the next few years.

Having followed the Hawks for 70 years we have gone through lean periods in that time but you can endure these watching the development of our young champions.
Patience is a virtue.

 

[rei154]

Who would be have to give up to get Collingwoods pick off GWS?
If we end up finishing with the spoon, with the Roos and Collingwood rounding out the bottom three, I'd like to see the club commit to the 2023 finals target by going hard for an extra top pick. Horne is clear #1, but I think we need to get someone like a Sonsie or a Chesser.

Currently we have too many inside midfielders who don't offer enough variability so this hypothetical is based on that:
I believe there's probably an experienced player or two who wouldn't mind chasing a flag in the next couple years who probably won't get that opportunity with us who wouldn't mind moving on.
Seems unlikely but if we were to go:
Titchell+ 2021 rnd 2 pick + 2022 rnd1 pick --> 2021 Collingwood rnd 1 + 2022 GWS rnd 1 + 3
We end up with picks 1+3 in this draft (or picks 2+3), we slide back a few spots in the 2022 draft but gain a little extra draft currency.

If our midfield stocks look something like:
Finn, Jom, Worpel, Cousins, Downie, Smitchell, Philips, Morrison, Bramble, Sonsie, Horne
I'd say our list would be turning around very nicely.
If you combine that with the fact that we've recruited our d50 quite nicely and appear to have our speculative KPF's sorted I'd say our list would be in a pretty strong spot for 2023+.

After that small forwards are probably the big issue- but hopefully we've got a few gems for that role already on our list.

 

[MrPremiership]

Our list is obviously in a bad place, we lack depth of talent.

We have had 2 drafts to get some talent in:
2019: Day, Maginness, Morris, Jeka
2020: DGB, S.Mitchell, Downie, Brockman

We're going to need a couple more drafts.

 

[CaptainWorpedo]

Who would be have to give up to get Collingwoods pick off GWS?
If we end up finishing with the spoon, with the Roos and Collingwood rounding out the bottom three, I'd like to see the club commit to the 2023 finals target by going hard for an extra top pick. Horne is clear #1, but I think we need to get someone like a Sonsie or a Chesser.

Currently we have too many inside midfielders who don't offer enough variability so this hypothetical is based on that:
I believe there's probably an experienced player or two who wouldn't mind chasing a flag in the next couple years who probably won't get that opportunity with us who wouldn't mind moving on.
Seems unlikely but if we were to go:
Titchell+ 2021 rnd 2 pick + 2022 rnd1 pick --> 2021 Collingwood rnd 1 + 2022 GWS rnd 1 + 3
We end up with picks 1+3 in this draft (or picks 2+3), we slide back a few spots in the 2022 draft but gain a little extra draft currency.

If our midfield stocks look something like:
Finn, Jom, Worpel, Cousins, Downie, Smitchell, Philips, Morrison, Bramble, Sonsie, Horne
I'd say our list would be turning around very nicely.
If you combine that with the fact that we've recruited our d50 quite nicely and appear to have our speculative KPF's sorted I'd say our list would be in a pretty strong spot for 2023+.

After that small forwards are probably the big issue- but hopefully we've got a few gems for that role already on our list.

Trade our first round 2022 pick for the pies (GWS) first round pick.

 

[Spursfan]

Our list is obviously in a bad place, we lack depth of talent.

We have had 2 drafts to get some talent in:
2019: Day, Maginness, Morris, Jeka
2020: DGB, S.Mitchell, Downie, Brockman

We're going to need a couple more drafts.

There's talent there we just haven't seen it - whether through injury or guys needing time at VFL. Agree we need more drafts to really build again

 

[rei154]

Trade our first round 2022 pick for the pies (GWS) first round pick.

Problem with a direct trade is I think we need to keep in the first round next year too so we've gotta get a little more creative.
Otherwise a straight trade would be ideal.

 

[MrPremiership]

There's talent there we just haven't seen it - whether through injury or guys needing time at VFL. Agree we need more drafts to really build again

I think Clarko is giving the other players a crack first, he's done this in 2019 and 2020. Give them a chance to show something, if not, then their papers are stamped. I'm thinking Moore, Howe, Cousins.

Once those guys are given a legitimate chance and if they don't show something, they're gone. Then Clarko gives games to Downie, Maginness, etc

 

[rei154]

I think Clarko is giving the other players a crack first, he's done this in 2019 and 2020. Give them a chance to show something, if not, then their papers are stamped. I'm thinking Moore, Howe, Cousins.

Once those guys are given a legitimate chance and if they don't show something, they're gone. Then Clarko gives games to Downie, Maginness, etc

I suppose this begs a question for me: do players like Finn get given an extra year on their current contract based purely on having their first season so messed around by Covid?

 

[BurnaHawks]

We need to bring in as many first round picks as possible. Trade all or as many of these blokes as possibly can and bring in as much as possible. Obviously don't trade them for nothing.
- Tom Mitchell
- Luke Breust
- Jack Gunston (We could have traded this bloke last year for Collingwoods 2021 first ound pick)
- Jaegar O'Meara
- Chad Wingard
If Clarko doesn't like this idea, sack him and bring Sam Mitchell in as senior coach.

 

[MrPremiership]

I suppose this begs a question for me: do players like Finn get given an extra year on their current contract based purely on having their first season so messed around by Covid?

There isn't any doubt they are getting another contract, so not sure it matters.