Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[rbartlett]

Very random query.

Peter Ewin famously commentated just the two* Grand Finals for Ch 7 (the 1977 draw and replay) and seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth.
Apparently a former ABC tv or radio caller. But is he still alive ?

One random bigfooty post said:
"I recall a piece in the GF Record on former commentators a couple of years back where it said he declined to be interviewed so clearly it didn’t end well." https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/iconic-broadcasters-of-vfl-afl.1293605/page-2#post-73169124

No idea which GF record that may be.

Using Ryerson I notice there was only one Peter Ewin death - that's in 2006 in Melbourne and I wonder is that him ?

EWIN, Peter | Death Notices | Melbourne | My Tributes

EWIN. - Peter. My champion, my best friend, could not have asked for more. You gave so much more in this life than you ever took. Thanks for you and us. Wil…

www.mytributes.com.au

 

[Gibbsy]

Very random query.

Peter Ewin famously commentated just the two* Grand Finals for Ch 7 (the 1977 draw and replay) and seemingly disappeared off the face of the earth.
Apparently a former ABC tv or radio caller. But is he still alive ?

One random bigfooty post said:
"I recall a piece in the GF Record on former commentators a couple of years back where it said he declined to be interviewed so clearly it didn’t end well." https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/iconic-broadcasters-of-vfl-afl.1293605/page-2#post-73169124

No idea which GF record that may be.

Using Ryerson I notice there was only one Peter Ewin death - that's in 2006 in Melbourne and I wonder is that him ?

EWIN, Peter | Death Notices | Melbourne | My Tributes

EWIN. - Peter. My champion, my best friend, could not have asked for more. You gave so much more in this life than you ever took. Thanks for you and us. Wil…

www.mytributes.com.au

Ewin hosted the Brownlow in 1977 too.

Looks like there were two Peter Ewins living in Melbourne during that time:



Not sure which is the one that passed away. Probably the one without a middle name.

 

[rbartlett]

Update: Actually he was alive back in 2017, so that death notice isnt him.
A few journos are in contact with him but he keeps a low profile.
Ignore my query about him then.

 

[GreyCrow]

Rowland Ockleshaw aka Bill Ockleshaw 1 game St Kilda 1902

That a player called Ockleshaw was selected is true - my concern is over the use of Bill for Rowland when there was a William in the family already

NSW BDM has 3 Ockleshaw boys born to Sarah and James between 1860-1900 all in the 1870s.

OCKLESHAW HERBERT C 23793/1879 JAMES SARAH TAMWORTH

OCKLESHAW ROWLAND 20919/1877 JAMES SARAH TAMWORTH

OCKLESHAW JAMES JOHN 6649/1874 JAMES SARAH ARMIDALE

Yet Bill/William doesnt appear on that site under that spelling - nor any of the other children mentioned in the death notice for Sarah

Fred was born in Richmond in 1864 as are Alice , Percival and (Robert Henry ) Harry from 1882

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 25 Oct 1924

nla.gov.au

Here we see Will and Rowland mentioned - though technically Bill isnt .

William Caleb dies in 1945 aged 70 ie DOB 1869-1870

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 10 Sep 1945

nla.gov.au

James had a store and was robbed in 1860 in Avoca and by 1874 had tenders in the Tamworth district

There is one other reference to Ockleshaw and football and it is this one which looks to be a works football team - note the player is H - which I assume is Herbert - who is deemed to be in NZ by his mothers death and brother William
Edit: It is Robert Henry aka Henry who died in 1910 aged 22(so too young to be playing 1902) in an accident at Mt Lyell Coy

CRUSHED TO DEATH. - Melbourne, August 5. - The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1889 - 1931) - 6 Aug 1910

Shortly after 4 p.m. to-day an athletically-built young man, Henry Occleshaw, aged 22 years, met his death while working at the superphosphate works of the ...

nla.gov.au

The other is listed as Umpire

NOTELETS - The Advertiser (Footscray, Vic. : 1884 - 1918) - 23 Jun 1906

To-day Footscray play Port Melbourne at Port Melbourne. On Monday evening the local council granted a request from Mr W. M. Begg ...

nla.gov.au

Interesting 2 Corbys are playing for the Sugar Works

I dont think we can say its Rowland over William and yet we have a similar problem with no DOB (visible)

 

[the croucher]

Peter Ewin - some background information on his early career published in PNG in 1969.

Top team to broadcast all events - Papua New Guinea Post-Courier (Port Moresby : 1969 - 1981) - 13 Aug 1969

Three ABC Sporting Commentators will be describing events at the South Pacific Games. They are Bert Oliver, Alan Symons ...

trove.nla.gov.au

 

[Bandit55]

Rowland Ockleshaw aka Bill Ockleshaw 1 game St Kilda 1902

That a player called Ockleshaw was selected is true - my concern is over the use of Bill for Rowland when there was a William in the family already

NSW BDM has 3 Ockleshaw boys born to Sarah and James between 1860-1900 all in the 1870s.

OCKLESHAW HERBERT C 23793/1879 JAMES SARAH TAMWORTH

OCKLESHAW ROWLAND 20919/1877 JAMES SARAH TAMWORTH

OCKLESHAW JAMES JOHN 6649/1874 JAMES SARAH ARMIDALE

Yet Bill/William doesnt appear on that site under that spelling - nor any of the other children mentioned in the death notice for Sarah

Fred was born in Richmond in 1864 as are Alice , Percival and (Robert Henry ) Harry from 1882

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 25 Oct 1924

nla.gov.au

View attachment 2177375

Here we see Will and Rowland mentioned - though technically Bill isnt .

William Caleb dies in 1945 aged 70 ie DOB 1869-1870

Family Notices - The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848 - 1957) - 10 Sep 1945

nla.gov.au

View attachment 2177377

James had a store and was robbed in 1860 in Avoca and by 1874 had tenders in the Tamworth district

There is one other reference to Ockleshaw and football and it is this one which looks to be a works football team - note the player is H - which I assume is Herbert - who is deemed to be in NZ by his mothers death and brother William
Edit: It is Robert Henry aka Henry who died in 1910 aged 22(so too young to be playing 1902) in an accident at Mt Lyell Coy

CRUSHED TO DEATH. - Melbourne, August 5. - The Advertiser (Adelaide, SA : 1889 - 1931) - 6 Aug 1910

Shortly after 4 p.m. to-day an athletically-built young man, Henry Occleshaw, aged 22 years, met his death while working at the superphosphate works of the ...

nla.gov.au

View attachment 2177439

The other is listed as Umpire

NOTELETS - The Advertiser (Footscray, Vic. : 1884 - 1918) - 23 Jun 1906

To-day Footscray play Port Melbourne at Port Melbourne. On Monday evening the local council granted a request from Mr W. M. Begg ...

nla.gov.au

View attachment 2177420

Interesting 2 Corbys are playing for the Sugar Works

I dont think we can say its Rowland over William and yet we have a similar problem with no DOB (visible)

Did you see in the Crushed to Death article that Henry was the sole support for his widowed mother as his brother had died in the Mt Lyell mines in Tasmania?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[GreyCrow]

Did you see in the Crushed to Death article that Henry was the sole support for his widowed mother as his brother had died in the Mt Lyell mines in Tasmania?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yes. It was odd as the Vic BDM is definitely the family

 

[35Daicos]

Could this be the brother who died in Tasmania (spelling of the surname is slightly out)?:

From 1900 Sands & McDougall:

1905 book:

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Graeme McLean (St Kilda) is currently recorded with death date 7 March 2013.

His full name was Graeme Gilleain McLean and he died in Tatura according to Ryerson Index death notices and death notices are all from mid May 2013. Electoral rolls show him living in St Kilda area and then Geelong (played VFA for Geelong West in 1971-73) so confident he is correctly identified.

His cremation record from Springvale Cemetery gives death date of 8 May 2013 and has DOB that matches that of player.

Summary: Date of death for Graeme McLean is 8 May 2013 rather than 7 March 2013

Oliver G

 

[rbartlett]

Obviously pre-2001 Marks and Goals of the Year can sometimes be a bit unreliable on Wikipedia.
So i was going to slowly try and add video citations (instead of an article written years later) to the entries.
(If no video citations exist then a contemporary report would suffice)

I found the ABC 1978 Goal of the Year winner tonight while digitising - its Rod Ashman. I've added that to Goal of the Year wiki and the video citation.
Also added Stan Alves as 1979 ABC Goal of the Year winner - and added video citation.
Have also added video citation for Michael Roach (ABC) in 1979, and Geoff Raines (ABC) 1982

If anyone comes across any other video citations of the actual announcements of Goal or Marks of the Year from 1970s/80s/90s do tag me and I can add them into the wiki.
(for instance, I'm a bit suspicious of the Snake Baker entry for 1978 Goal of the Year. It obviously would have to be Ch7s, as I found ABCs tonight,, but there's no further info about it, and I wonder if it is a transcription error from him winning the Mark of the Year that same year. I know the AFL site has him as 1978 Mark of the Year but no idea where that is from)

 

[RedmanWasHere]

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL17610583

Something's not quite right with this Murray Bushrangers score.

 

[Oliver G]

https://rosetta.slv.vic.gov.au/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_func=stream&dps_pid=FL17610583

Something's not quite right with this Murray Bushrangers score.

The Age has the same...



18.24 is 132, so it is likely a keyboarding error from the original source and wasn't corrected.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

The Age has the same...

View attachment 2183084

18.24 is 132, so it is likely a keyboarding error from the original source and wasn't corrected.

Makes me wonder who copied who and who didn't pick up on the error initially.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Max Nixon (Essendon) is currently recorded with death date 14 January 2019.

His full name was Maxwell John Nixon and he was a farmer in Orbost after his football career

His cremation record from Gippsland Memorial Cemetery gives actual death date of 6 January 2019 and has DOB that matches that of the player.

Summary: Date of death for Max Nixon is 6 January 2019 rather than 14 January 2019

Oliver G

 

[stemline]

1996 R10 Frem v Haw behind correction

All references have Hawthorn's Richard Taylor kicking 2 behinds and Anthony Condon kicking none in this game.

Per below video, early in the last qtr Condon kicks Hawthorn's 4th behind. Although it's hard to pick up the actual kick, you can see from the lead up that Condon (number 3) is the player in that position and also afterwards the camera focuses on him and the commentator makes mention that it was Condon that kicked the point.

Richard Taylor doesn't appear to be in the vicinity and only kicks 1 behind in this game, Hawthorn's 7th.



Summary -
1996 Rnd 10 Frem v Haw - Anthony Condon plus 1 behind, Richard Taylor minus 1 behind

 

[McPang]

1923 Rd. 13 Geelong v Collingwood

Syd Coventry is currently recorded as having played for Collingwood. According to the Geelong Advertiser, "In the opposition ranks, McComish and Smith, who had been suffering from influenza, took the places of E. Wilson and S. Coventry (injured in the Collingwood-St Kilda match)." Syd Coventry is also not listed in the team line-up. According to the Sporting Globe, "Through injuries, E. Wilson and Coventry were out of Collingwood's team and Smith and McComish filled the places." Again, he is not listed in the team line-up.

Mentioned in both match reports (and line-ups) is (Harry) Curtis (1923 capt.). At the time of writing, Curtis is not recorded in typical sources as having played.

35Daicos was kind enough to find additional supporting articles in The Sun News-Pictorial, The Argus, The Australasian etc. which I can also provide here if required.

Unless there are some related inaccurate records in other games, this will unfortunately bring down Syd's game tally down by 1 (to 226). On the bright side, it is one less game for Collingwood for which the match-day captain is uncertain.

The match reports also indicate that the quarter-time score was 4.8.32 - 0.1.1 (not 4.8.32 - 1.1.7).
The Geelong Advertiser and The Age explicitly state that (0.1.1) for the quarter-time score, and though the Sporting Globe lists 1.1.7, it describes no goals during the first quarter by Collingwood, and describes one in the second quarter by R. Baker as the "Magpies' first sixer".

Summary: 1923 Rd. 13 Geelong v Collingwood - Syd Coventry (out), Harry Curtis (in). Quarter-time score: 4.8.32 - 0.1.1

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Trevor Heath (Essendon, Eastlake, West Perth, Subiaco) has death date 25 October 2021 on australianfootball.com (and originally wikipedia until it was updated by someone 18 months ago)

His full name was Trevor James Heath and Karrakatta Cemetery records and Ryerson Index both confirm that 20 October 2021 was the actual date of death.

Summary: Date of death for Trevor Heath is 20 October 2021 rather than 25 October 2021

Oliver G