Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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the croucher said:
Here is a ref to the state of the NM ground written in 1894
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/73765224
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That is the earliest i found and it actually does not call the club the gluepotters.

My point is that just like Essendon does not exist in trove as the blood stained you know whats, perhaps the term shinboners is a throwback to very working class origins and when the club was trying to join the VFL as a respectable team perhaps the term was shelved.

Not saying i am right.
 
The initial rules of the game prohibited hacking ( kicking in the shins) perhaps shinboners was a somewhat dirty term used by a bunch of Norths fans in the early days and not used in the media or spoken out of place ?, i would not be suprised at all.

By the time the mid 1930's came around the term was somewhat more endearing and the game had progressed to a point where hacking was almost non existent and a distant memory. ?.

Just throwing one out of left field here
 
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fabulousphil said:
That is the earliest i found and it actually does not call the club the gluepotters.

My point is that just like Essendon does not exist in trove as the blood stained you know whats, perhaps the term shinboners is a throwback to very working class origins and when the club was trying to join the VFL as a respectable team perhaps the term was shelved.

Not saying i am right.
Click to expand...
Look at the Argus 24 April1937 at page 25 which gave a list of all the then known afl names and nominated that nm used to be known as the "Gluepotters", amongst then other AFL names.
 
Another aspect of the "historic record" which annoys me is the inconsistent treatment of a particular type of stat or honour, e.g. captain of a club. The Essendon lists reflect the injury in 2006 to Matthew Lloyd and the appointment of David Hille as acting captain, i.e. both are listed for that year.

I've found numerous examples where the club list shows just one captain for a particular season, but where I think an acting captain/captains should also be shown. The research is ongoing but for your interest some examples found so far:
[ club, year, appointed capt only name listed, how many games he played that season ]:
Carlton 1946 - Bob Chitty 6 out of 19, Collingwood 1938 - Harry Collier 7/21, Fitzroy 1910 - Jim Sharp 4/18, Footscray 1939 - Roy Evans 3/18, Geelong 1945 - Jack Butcher 6/20, Richmond 1912 - Ted Ohlsen 7/18, St Kilda 1908 - Jack Wells 5/19
 
royals1922 said:
Look at the Argus 24 April1937 at page 25 which gave a list of all the then known afl names and nominated that nm used to be known as the "Gluepotters", amongst then other AFL names.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure North was called the gluepotters by some of its fans and probably more by fans of other clubs.
 
worbod said:
One common misconception with the Bendigo Football League is the long accepted figure of 1,624 goals kicked by Ron Best. I firmly believe it should be 1,587, a total I have arrived at after having gone through each match Best played in the B. F. L. via the microfilms of the Bendigo Advertiser housed at the Bendigo Regional Library, writing down each match tally and then adding up his seasonal totals. One thing I have noticed after having read through the seasonal totals published in the B. F. L.’s own publication Hall of Fame (1986), is that one of the totals they list does not include finals goals kicked by Best, that being for 1968, where they have credited him with 102, not adding on the 4 goals he kicked in his only finals game that season. If we stay with the 1,624 total and add on these extra 4 goals, this now puts Best on 1,628. Hall of Fame lists his 1978 total as 115 instead of 124. It is difficualt to calculate how 9 goals have gone missing here. He kicked 9 in a homa and away match versus Kyneton and also 9 in the preliminary agaisnt Eaglehawk, but why weither of these two games should have been left out of his 1978 total is mystifiying. If we add on these 9 goals to the 1,628 we now arrive at 1,637, which is 50 ahead of the total I believe to be correct.
These additional 50 goals can be treaced to the most glaring error printed within Hall of Fame, Best's 1977 total, which they give as 75, instead of 25, which is low due to Best playing that season at centre half forward. Only once that season did Best kick more than two goals in a match, so how the figure of 75 is reached is somewhat perplexing.
Click to expand...

Congrats on a fantastic effort. 'Tis a long slog but worthwhile.
As a matter of interest (presuming Best played in them) did you also note his efforts for the BFL rep side in various matches ?
 
the croucher said:
Another aspect of the "historic record" which annoys me is the inconsistent treatment of a particular type of stat or honour, e.g. captain of a club. The Essendon lists reflect the injury in 2006 to Matthew Lloyd and the appointment of David Hille as acting captain, i.e. both are listed for that year.

I've found numerous examples where the club list shows just one captain for a particular season, but where I think an acting captain/captains should also be shown. The research is ongoing but for your interest some examples found so far:
[ club, year, appointed capt only name listed, how many games he played that season ]:
Carlton 1946 - Bob Chitty 6 out of 19, Collingwood 1938 - Harry Collier 7/21, Fitzroy 1910 - Jim Sharp 4/18, Footscray 1939 - Roy Evans 3/18, Geelong 1945 - Jack Butcher 6/20, Richmond 1912 - Ted Ohlsen 7/18, St Kilda 1908 - Jack Wells 5/19
Click to expand...
Its the nature of the beast. Records were badly kept for generations.
 
royals1922 said:
1916 report is unrelated. 1938 report postdates the wiliamstown references.
Click to expand...

the 1916 report is weird, i wonder what not a shin boner means, obviously he considers himself or the bloke he is taking off to be a shin boner, what was shinboner ?, looking at the article it appears a shinboner was a uneducated larrikin ?.


Just on Western Australia, between 1895 and 1900, at least 75,000 Victorians moved to WA and one report i have read puts the stats of WW1 soldiers signing up from Kalgoorlie being about 35% Victorian born.

the population of WA in around 1916 was around 300,000
 
the croucher said:
Another aspect of the "historic record" which annoys me is the inconsistent treatment of a particular type of stat or honour, e.g. captain of a club. The Essendon lists reflect the injury in 2006 to Matthew Lloyd and the appointment of David Hille as acting captain, i.e. both are listed for that year.

I've found numerous examples where the club list shows just one captain for a particular season, but where I think an acting captain/captains should also be shown. The research is ongoing but for your interest some examples found so far:
[ club, year, appointed capt only name listed, how many games he played that season ]:
Carlton 1946 - Bob Chitty 6 out of 19, Collingwood 1938 - Harry Collier 7/21, Fitzroy 1910 - Jim Sharp 4/18, Footscray 1939 - Roy Evans 3/18, Geelong 1945 - Jack Butcher 6/20, Richmond 1912 - Ted Ohlsen 7/18, St Kilda 1908 - Jack Wells 5/19
Click to expand...

I've been undertaking documenting all captains of Richmond (selected, acting).
You can find the under construction list here : http://tigerlandarchive.org/tiki-index.php?page=Senior+Captains
 
From a Richmond point of view, early Best and Fairest info may be disputed.
Still looking for contemporary reports of the winner for 1932, pre 1927 etc.
 

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rbartlett said:
From a Richmond point of view, early Best and Fairest info may be disputed.
Still looking for contemporary reports of the winner for 1932, pre 1927 etc.
Click to expand...
Heres my tip for the best and fairests.

First find the date of the AGM. Ususually the annual meeting is within a week either way of the last one , a year on.

Second once you have ascertained the date, trove search something like Richmond football and meeting for a narrow period , perhaps 2 weeks either way of when you think the date of it is.

Third if you can't find a report or the report is not detailed enough go off Trove, like go to the sun, herald or any local Richmond paper, not on trove.
 
royals1922 said:
Heres my tip for the best and fairests.

First find the date of the AGM. Ususually the annual meeting is within a week either way of the last one , a year on.

Second once you have ascertained the date, trove search something like Richmond football and meeting for a narrow period , perhaps 2 weeks either way of when you think the date of it is.

Third if you can't find a report or the report is not detailed enough go off Trove, like go to the sun, herald or any local Richmond paper, not on trove.
Click to expand...
That's all been done, and no references found.
 
rbartlett said:
That's all been done, and no references found.
Click to expand...
Give me the dates of the annual meetings and the best and fairest years you want.

Before you do that, try this variation of a trove search. Richmond football and trophy or Richmond football and medal . If you want add the extra "and meeting' not annual meeting just meeting.
 
royals1922 said:
Give me the dates of the annual meetings and the best and fairest years you want.

Before you do that, try this variation of a trove search. Richmond football and trophy or Richmond football and medal . If you want add the extra "and meeting' not annual meeting just meeting.
Click to expand...

We've looked. 10 years of research. My initial post was more to say that there was no 1932 Best and Fairest award etc, as an example of inaccuracy with clubs.
 
rbartlett said:
We've looked. 10 years of research. My initial post was more to say that there was no 1932 Best and Fairest award etc, as an example of inaccuracy with clubs.
Click to expand...
Give me a shot. Which years best and fairest...
 
rbartlett said:
I'll start you with 1932.
Then do 1917 or 1924.
Click to expand...
Ok I know trophies were given out and I know the date of the 1933 meeting ehere the 1932 flag was unfurled but the age doesn't seem to have a copy of the report and the argus doesn't name who got the trophies. I haven't rad the herald or the sun reports.

However the player who I think it may have been is Jack Baggott. Plays 19 games and then on 20 January is reported in the argus, 1 day after the report of the agm, as being the best in the gf and the final and as seeking an appointment as coach of Fitzroy. Baggott is denied the clearance and plays on for Richmond. Similar to the Beams situation.

Nothing hard yet in terms of data but it at least gives me a timeline.
 

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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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