Btw, a physical Champion of the Colony medal surfaced not long ago on Twitter by a relative of Fred Leach. He tweeted a picture of it
For what sport I wonder, boxing, swimming.. ?
Certainly wasn't for football.
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Btw, a physical Champion of the Colony medal surfaced not long ago on Twitter by a relative of Fred Leach. He tweeted a picture of it
Ok I know trophies were given out and I know the date of the 1933 meeting ehere the 1932 flag was unfurled but the age doesn't seem to have a copy of the report and the argus doesn't name who got the trophies. I haven't rad the herald or the sun reports.
However the player who I think it may have been is Jack Baggott. Plays 19 games and then on 20 January is reported in the argus, 1 day after the report of the agm, as being the best in the gf and the final and as seeking an appointment as coach of Fitzroy. Baggott is denied the clearance and plays on for Richmond. Similar to the Beams situation.
Nothing hard yet in terms of data but it at least gives me a timeline.
I'll see if he can repost it, then I'll link to it. I seem to recall it had Collingwood FC written on it, so it may have come from the club itself.For what sport I wonder, boxing, swimming.. ?
Certainly wasn't for football.
Actually the argus report refers to trophies not medallions, 19 January1933 , the Argus. Again I always go to the source materials. Looking at record Vic thorp is named as the 1917 and 24 band f. And the record names jack dyer as the 32 b and f . There is something very odd in the reports of that year.....Well all players got premiership medallions that night, which is what you may mean by trophy. Baggott named best in a GF and Final isn't a Best and Fairest of the year. There was no 1932 B + F named until 1988, when several additional B+F winners were added to club records.
So as not to keep clogging up this thread and to allow others to pst their 'inaccuracies', I've DMed you to continue the discussion.I'm confused with your post. 'Looking at record, Vic Thorp ...' What record you mean ? As for 'medallion', that was my terminology, so it can be the trophies
Congrats on a fantastic effort. 'Tis a long slog but worthwhile.
As a matter of interest (presuming Best played in them) did you also note his efforts for the BFL rep side in various matches ?
North Historian, Father Gerard Dowling has done a lot of research into the Shinboner name and believes is derives from the Irish Hurling players who played on Arden St on Sundays.I may also point out that Essendon was at one stage called the blood stained chaps by some of it's fans, but i bet you won't find that on Trove, perhaps being called a Shinboner was akin to that.
BTW it was not chaps but n i g g e r s or tiggers with a N
North Historian, Father Gerard Dowling has done a lot of research into the Shinboner name and believes is derives from the Irish Hurling players who played on Arden St on Sundays.
Opposition crowds would complain about the roughhouse tactics of the North players by suggesting they were Irish Hurling players arrived one day too early for their game.
North took this name as their own, in the same way South were ridiculed as the Swans for having so many West Australians in their team.
Go and look at the number of time the word "n-----r" was used pre 1940 (from recollection it is over 100,000 times)and compare it to the number of times the word "shinboner" is used. Most people who have researched the issue put it no higher than a supposition, which is correct.The other 2 references to shinboners that i posted from the trove links earlier in this thread relate to around 1916 in WA with a bloke sarcastically referring to himself as ....(O'Kelli not a shinboner) obviously a Irish name and the article is written by someone pretending to be illiterate.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/165446687?searchTerm=shin-boner&searchLimits=
The other reference is actually a football team around Moama/Echuca called the Shinboners, they were called the Shinboners because they were from a part of the river called shinbone alley, shinbone alley was a collection of shacks renowned for poor people, travellors, swaggies, gypsies etc.
there is actually a few references to this team around 1901
http://192.102.239.158/ndp/del/article/115026524?searchTerm=shinboner&searchLimits=
IMO all the references to shinboner have a link, they all revolve around hard times, poverty, uneducated etc.
I have no doubt NM was called the shinboners before the mid 1930's
Go and look at the number of time the word "n-----r" was used pre 1940 (from recollection it is over 100,000 times)and compare it to the number of times the word "shinboner" is used. Most people who have researched the issue put it no higher than a supposition, which is correct.
the word you mention was used in a variety of ways, the word shinboner wasn't
Can you find the actual saying .... blood stained iggers in trove in relation to Essendon FC , because if we can't then obviously it is a fictional creation ?.
I think we should keep in mind too that there are still only a minority of "football papers" on Trove yet...minimal Age, no Sporting Globe, no Herald, no Sun...any number of shorter run titles absent too for both 19thC and 20thC.
Even so, I've just searched Trove for the word "bloodstained" or the phrase "blood stained" combined with the word Essendon, and there wasn't any entry which included both terms in reference to the Football Club.
As an increasing amount of text becomes available online (e.g. book, journal & poetry) a check of non-football sources would be worthwhile as well as those we've been covering.
M'Culloch, who under an assumed name has been seen to advantage in many previous games, threw off all disguise, and treated his friends to a great exhibition of high-marking and an equally good display of accurate kicking
What about players under assumed names. How did we arrive at the players who were officially credited with the game?
For instance in its report on the Round 1, 1897 Melbourne vs South Melbourne game the Emerald Hill Record gives a team lineup (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/108482390) that leaves out Melbourne's full-forward line. This means four players are not included - Bill McCulloch, George Johnstone, Edwin Jenkyn and Charlie Young - but a "Williams" is named in the followers in quotation marks.
'Williams' is also shown as playing the next week but George Johnsone wasn't in the side so it has to be one of the other three, and as Charlie Young seems to have been a centreman rather than a 'follower' that narrows it down to McCulloch or Jenkyn - and it seems from an article later in the year that it was McCulloch as it mentions that he played under an assumed name earlier that year (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/139742813).
The question is - why was he playing under an assumed name? The Australasian doesn't suggest anything dodgy was up. Not sure why they would have had to gone into subterfuge given that he had already played with the club in 1895 and 1896.
That's a very interesting read. I have no idea why he played under an assumed name.
I will say that it has also been written in previous books that Vic Thorp played under the assumed name of R. Sharp for 1 game.
I still for the life of me can't find any contemporary report of this .
That is what happened to early Collingwood great Bill Proudfoot, but it was in 1903-04.I've seen mention of another player who was a serving policeman and the rozzers wouldn't let him play for some reason so he showed up on Saturday under a fake name until they changed their mind.
That is what happened to early Collingwood great Bill Proudfoot, but it was in 1903-04.
http://www.au.timeout.com/melbourne/sports/features/2435/bourne-identity-16-constable-proudfoot
The deteriorating reputation of the game prompted Chief Commissioner O’Callaghan to ban members of the police force from participating. Proudfoot defied the edict and played in the 1903 and 1904 seasons under the fictitious name of Wilson. His superiors were seemingly oblivious until a notorious Collingwood criminal informed the Chief Commissioner by mail and Proudfoot was thus warned that any further breaches would end in his dismissal. Eventually Commissioner O’Callaghan had a change of heart and authorised him to play the game he loved.
It's certainly possible, however Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers says only "Ex-Frankston" of Gordon Proudfoot. Of Alec Proudfoot (St Kilda and Melbourne) it has "A nephew of Billy Proudfoot."At the end of his obituary it mentions a son .... Gordon, my guess would be that this Gordon Proudfoot may be his grandson ...
http://australianfootball.com/players/player/Gordon+Proudfoot/8400
It's certainly possible, however Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers says only "Ex-Frankston" of Gordon Proudfoot. Of Alec Proudfoot (St Kilda and Melbourne) it has "A nephew of Billy Proudfoot."
That is what happened to early Collingwood great Bill Proudfoot, but it was in 1903-04.
http://www.au.timeout.com/melbourne/sports/features/2435/bourne-identity-16-constable-proudfoot
The deteriorating reputation of the game prompted Chief Commissioner O’Callaghan to ban members of the police force from participating. Proudfoot defied the edict and played in the 1903 and 1904 seasons under the fictitious name of Wilson. His superiors were seemingly oblivious until a notorious Collingwood criminal informed the Chief Commissioner by mail and Proudfoot was thus warned that any further breaches would end in his dismissal. Eventually Commissioner O’Callaghan had a change of heart and authorised him to play the game he loved.
Checked myself, no blood stained.
The very first mention of Shinboners in reference to North Melbourne was by a supporter of Williamstown VFA team. ( 1936 ), that's odd IMO.
I think the hurling suggestion and/also the abattoir suggestion makes far more sense than a game in 1933 ( suggestion by royals 1922).