Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[RedmanWasHere]

Btw, I thought it may interest this forum to know that 'Swamp' is re-building the AFLs database from scratch as it was old and couldn't handle any new changes introduced (AFLW etc etc)

Draining the swamp?
As it were?

 

[Oliver G]

Good news. All of SR's feedback is complete.
He has reviewed up to page 133.

I will , separately, create a spreadsheet documenting the page 133 onwards changes.
(Make sure you put a summary for a change you want)

And sometime down the track SR will look at it, but not in the current future.

Btw, I thought it may interest this forum to know that 'Swamp' is re-building the AFLs database from scratch as it was old and couldn't handle any new changes introduced (AFLW etc etc)

So SR and Col are still our go to people for them to decide if a change is accept or not by the AFL.
'Swamp' will be the guy who inputs the data into the database eventually once that database is built. (I dont know if it will be available to public or not etc etc )

Thanks, Rhett, for all the updates over the past few weeks.

It's good to hear that the AFL's database is being rebuilt. It's slightly concerning that Swamp is handling this, given his history of dealing with anyone questioning V/AFL records, but it's important that this work gets done, and hopefully, it does become publicly available.

 

[rbartlett]

Thanks, Rhett, for all the updates over the past few weeks.

It's good to hear that the AFL's database is being rebuilt. It's slightly concerning that Swamp is handling this, given his history of dealing with anyone questioning V/AFL records, but it's important that this work gets done, and hopefully, it does become publicly available.

I've spoken to him personally and he said he's more than happy to update any changes that are discovered etc as he wants the database to be correct as possible.

 

[stemline]

1988 Rnd 15 Bris v Haw - Behinds correction

All references have Hawthorn's Paul Abbott kicking 1 behind in this game, with 6 Rushed behinds for Hawthorn.

As per below video, Paul Abbott kicks 2 behinds, Hawthorn's 2nd and 3rd. All other player scores align, with only 5 Rushed for Hawthorn.



Summary -

1988 Rnd 15 Bris v Haw - Paul Abbott plus 1 behind, 'Rushed for Hawthorn' minus 1 behind.

 

[stemline]

1988 R17 Melb v Haw - Behinds Correction

All references have Andrew Collins and Chris Wittman each kicking 1 behind in this game. Per the below video, Collins kicks 2 behinds (Hawthorn's 3rd and 4th). From the commentary, it sounds likely the 2nd behind was mistakenly given to Wittman. Wittman does not score in this game.

For clarity I have included the 2 rushed behinds recorded for Hawthorn (their 7th and 10th of the game) in the video.



Summary -

1988 Rnd 17 Melb v Haw - Andrew Collins plus 1 behind, Chris Wittman minus 1 behind.

 

[rbartlett]

1988 R17 Melb v Haw - Behinds Correction

All references have Andrew Collins and Chris Wittman each kicking 1 behind in this game. Per the below video, Collins kicks 2 behinds (Hawthorn's 3rd and 4th). From the commentary, it sounds likely the 2nd behind was mistakenly given to Wittman. Wittman does not score in this game.

For clarity I have included the 2 rushed behinds recorded for Hawthorn (their 7th and 10th of the game) in the video.



Summary -

1988 Rnd 17 Melb v Haw - Andrew Collins plus 1 behind, Chris Wittman minus 1 behind.

At what point did they stop crediting a behind to a player if it came off hands.

 

[rbartlett]

This 1952 article shows George Parris "a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played full back with Fitzroy 38 years ago..." being met by Dyer, and Jack O'Rourke and Lord Mayor in his hospital bed.

Surprise for old footballer - The Sun News-Pictorial (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954; 1956) - 27 Oct 1952

MR. GEORGE PARRIS, a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played fullback with Fitzroy 38 years ...

nla.gov.au

But I cant see any George Parris (or similar spelling) playing for Fitzroy circa 1914, or on their playing list ever.

AFL Tables - All Time Player List - Fitzroy

I thought maybe it was a typo of George Pattison, but he had died one year earlier in 1951

George Pattison (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then theres a Keith Parris for Essendon and some VFA clubs, but no Fitzroy

Keith Parris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[35Daicos]

This 1952 article shows George Parris "a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played full back with Fitzroy 38 years ago..." being met by Dyer, and Jack O'Rourke and Lord Mayor in his hospital bed.

Surprise for old footballer - The Sun News-Pictorial (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954; 1956) - 27 Oct 1952

MR. GEORGE PARRIS, a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played fullback with Fitzroy 38 years ...

nla.gov.au

But I cant see any George Parris (or similar spelling) playing for Fitzroy circa 1914, or on their playing list ever.

AFL Tables - All Time Player List - Fitzroy

I thought maybe it was a typo of George Pattison, but he had died one year earlier in 1951

George Pattison (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then theres a Keith Parris for Essendon and some VFA clubs, but no Fitzroy

Keith Parris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is probably him (he'd have been the right sort of age, and living in the right area), but maybe he invented the playing for Fitzroy bit!!:

 

[stemline]

At what point did they stop crediting a behind to a player if it came off hands.

I'm really not sure but i expect I'll find out... but it's very consistent in the games I'm looking at. Seems like if the ball was originally on line to score then it was given to the kicker, often even if it's punched through.

Applying today's interpretation would alter a huge percentage of players' behind tallies. Pot shots from 50 were all the rage back then!

 

[Bandit55]

SR assumes this is an unresolved entry - as there was no summary. So no change has been made.
For your reference he has provided this information from afl's archives.

Morley
Campbell sheet:
Arthur Morley for '30; A.Morley for '31

Sowdon sheets:
He's called Arthur Morley

Clearance book:
couldn't see him, to North;
then:
W.Morley, North to Prahran in '32

According to South Melbourne Districts. Arthur Morley played there in 1929 and 1930, and was in their 1930 premiership team.

 

[Bandit55]

This 1952 article shows George Parris "a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played full back with Fitzroy 38 years ago..." being met by Dyer, and Jack O'Rourke and Lord Mayor in his hospital bed.

Surprise for old footballer - The Sun News-Pictorial (Melbourne, Vic. : 1922 - 1954; 1956) - 27 Oct 1952

MR. GEORGE PARRIS, a patient in Prince Henry's Hospital, who played fullback with Fitzroy 38 years ...

nla.gov.au

But I cant see any George Parris (or similar spelling) playing for Fitzroy circa 1914, or on their playing list ever.

AFL Tables - All Time Player List - Fitzroy

I thought maybe it was a typo of George Pattison, but he had died one year earlier in 1951

George Pattison (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then theres a Keith Parris for Essendon and some VFA clubs, but no Fitzroy

Keith Parris - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

According to the Encyclopedia, Keith Parris was ex-Fitzroy reserves and Camberwell.

 

[Bandit55]

An update on Carl Bowen the former Woodend, Richmond Reserves and Port Melbourne player. He was a dual Port Melbourne premiership player and a member of their ‘Team of the Century’:

https://websites.sportstg.com/club_...task=DETAIL&articleID=5096285&sectionID=59318

He passed away in December 2020:

https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20210313143712/https://tjscott.etributes.com.au/etributes/carl-bowen/

https://www.mytributes.com.au/notice/death-notices/bowen-carl/5611581/

Summary

Update Carl Bowen in AF and Richmond Reserves player records as follows:

Full name: Carl Eric Bowen Nickname: ‘Lofty’ DoB: 27 May 1934 DoD: 15 December 2020

 

[killer]

1915ish?

I doubt if those guys would have turned up without knowing him

 

[Oliver G]

At what point did they stop crediting a behind to a player if it came off hands.

I'm really not sure but i expect I'll find out... but it's very consistent in the games I'm looking at. Seems like if the ball was originally on line to score then it was given to the kicker, often even if it's punched through.

Applying today's interpretation would alter a huge percentage of players' behind tallies. Pot shots from 50 were all the rage back then!

It may have been when Champion took over the licence in 1999, a few years ago they said...

We only credit behinds to players where they have kicked the ball through. Balls touched on the line are also credited with a behind, but those that fall short and are punched/knocked through are given as a rushed behind (and a missed shot to the kicking player). No player is credited for rushed behinds. All other instances where a behind is paid where it hasn't been kicked through are given as rushed behinds.

The same issue applies with tackles and clearances in matches before 1999 as Champion's definition in both those stats differs from other sources.

 

[rbartlett]

Summary: Terry Smith - StK - Round 5 1984 vs Geelong wore No. 30 in the first half and then No. 52 in the second half, as per a dvd recording of the game I have.

Australian Football - Match Details: 1984 R5 St. Kilda vs Geelong

australianfootball.com

AFL Tables - St Kilda v Geelong - Sat, 28-Apr-1984 2:10 PM - Match Stats

 

[stemline]

1989 Rnd 2 NM v Haw - behinds correction for North

All references have North's Brett Allison kicking no behinds in this game, with 1 rushed for North.

The below video contains all North's behinds for this game (no scoreboard). Allison kicks North's 3rd behind for the game at the start of the 3rd qtr. All other player scores align, there are no rushed behinds.



Summary -

1989 Rnd 2 NM v Haw - Brett Allison (NM) plus 1 behind, 'Rushed for NM' minus 1 behind.