Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

[GreyCrow]

Does anyone have an existing Ancestry account please?
I'm trying to locate a family member of Billy Wilson (RFC) who died young in 1967

Bill Wilson (footballer) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Are there any active trees on Ancestry?
Cheers

There is a tree of an active user ( on site yesterday)

There is actually 21 trees but this seems most closest

 

[rbartlett]

View attachment 2097623

There is a tree of an active user ( on site yesterday)

There is actually 21 trees but this seems most closest

GreyCrow , do you have the option of sending a message to the active user on my behalf, asking them to reach out to me (the Richmond Football Club Historian) on rhettrospective@gmail.com

Is that possible for you to do please?

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

GreyCrow , do you have the option of sending a message to the active user on my behalf, asking them to reach out to me (the Richmond Football Club Historian) on rhettrospective@gmail.com

Is that possible for you to do please?

Bill Wilson's wife was Merle Ruby Wilson (nee Neilson) who died in 2013 (the linked notice clearly names her as wife of the footballer!) - unfortunately none of the death notices I can find name the children, but from Ancestry trees he had three children

1. William Phillip Wilson (1951-2005) - he had son
2. Moana Teressa Wilson (married name was Lea, now seems to have returned to Wilson) - who is still alive and running businesses in Mount Gravatt area of Brisbane and has children - she must be around 65-70 by now and may be traceable
3. Another son (can't find a name but was living)

Moana Lea-Wilson has a tree on Ancestry but in was created in 2007 and looks like it hasn't been updated in the last 10 years (her mother's death is the most recent event in the tree)

 

[rbartlett]

Bill Wilson's wife was Merle Ruby Wilson (nee Neilson) who died in 2013 (the linked notice clearly names her as wife of the footballer!) - unfortunately none of the death notices I can find name the children, but from Ancestry trees he had three children

1. William Phillip Wilson (1951-2005) - he had son
2. Moana Teressa Wilson (married name was Lea, now seems to have returned to Wilson) - who is still alive and running businesses in Mount Gravatt area of Brisbane and has children - she must be around 65-70 by now and may be traceable
3. Another son (can't find a name but was living)

Moana Lea-Wilson has a tree on Ancestry but in was created in 2007 and looks like it hasn't been updated in the last 10 years (her mother's death is the most recent event in the tree)

Thank you. There is a postal address on one of those links so I may send a letter to it. I've also put a post in the Upper Mt Gravatt facebook group - so I assume somewhere there will know her.
As well, separate to that, GreyCrow has send a Ancestry DM to one of the tree owners. So hopefully one of those pay off. Many thanks to you both.

 

[Gibbsy]

Wonder how many of these old-school misspellings are still floating around the league's records.

Lyall Anderson is almost certainly Lyle Anderson.

KORNIES 1959 'SCOREBOARD' SERIES - FOOTSCRAY: John Schultz & Lyle Anderson, cards #14 & 15 [2/36]; G/VG. (2).

KORNIES 1959 'SCOREBOARD' SERIES - FOOTSCRAY: John Schultz & Lyle Anderson, cards #14 & 15 [2/36]; G/VG. (2).

auctions.leski.com.au

I don't think he's signing his name differently to how it's spelt!

Lyle would be coming up 88 years of age soon. There's no evidence to suggest he isn't still with us. Unfortunately that Facebook post from Lyle's granddaughter can no longer be accessed.

 

[35Daicos]

Wonder how many of these old-school misspellings are still floating around the league's records.

Lyall Anderson is almost certainly Lyle Anderson.

KORNIES 1959 'SCOREBOARD' SERIES - FOOTSCRAY: John Schultz & Lyle Anderson, cards #14 & 15 [2/36]; G/VG. (2).

KORNIES 1959 'SCOREBOARD' SERIES - FOOTSCRAY: John Schultz & Lyle Anderson, cards #14 & 15 [2/36]; G/VG. (2).

auctions.leski.com.au

I don't think he's signing his name differently to how it's spelt!

View attachment 2099211

Lyle would be coming up 88 years of age soon. There's no evidence to suggest he isn't still with us. Unfortunately that Facebook post from Lyle's granddaughter can no longer be accessed.

The papers nearly always have it as Lyle (even when he was playing cricket as a junior), so it's hard to see where Lyall came from! This is probably his marriage:

Could it be that Lyle Anderson Reserve at Highett is named after him?

This is how they had it quite a few years back on the AFL Historical Statistics site:

The Encyclopedia still has it as Lyall, and obviously Wikipedia and others do too, but it's quite likely the AFL changed it at some stage, and perhaps didn't let anyone know!

 

[rbartlett]

Summary: Lyall Anderson is Lyle Anderson

Lyall Anderson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stemline]

Behind correction 1992 R11 WB v Haw

All references have Hawthorn's Dean Anderson kicking 1 behind in this game and Anthony Condon none.

Per below vid, Condon kicks Hawthorn's 8th behind of the game. Anderson does not kick a behind in this game.



Summary -
1992 Rnd 11 WB v Haw - Anthony Condon plus 1 behind, Dean Anderson minus 1 behind.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Tom Mullens (Carlton, Footscray) has death of 9 August 1961 in online footy records (wiki, blueseum, af.com)

Death notices show date of death was 4 August 1961 and cemetery record shows burial was 8 August 1961 so 9th is clearly incorrect.

Summary: Death date for Tom Mullens is 4 August 1961 (rather than 9 August 1961)
Oliver G The Blueseum

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Jack Kidd (Carlton, Essendon, Fitzroy) has death of 26 February 1960 in online footy records (wiki, blueseum, af.com)

Death notices show date of death was 26 March 1960 and cemetery record shows cremation was 29 March 1960 - looks like a simple month data entry error.

Summary: Death date for Jack Kidd is 26 March 1960 (rather than 26 Feb 1960)
Oliver G The Blueseum

 

[35Daicos]

A video of the last quarter of this 1957 Rd. 4 game (Collingwood vs. South Melbourne) has been posted elsewhere:




https://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/1957/041619570511.html || https://australianfootball.com/game/view/5839

The game's records have two South players wearing the numbers 2 and 20. Appleyard is in fact wearing 42 (3 min 25 sec in), Goldsmith 2 (4 min 30 sec in), Taylor 20 (14 min 30 sec in) and Trethowan 26 (14 min 20 sec in).

Summary: Change South Melbourne's Percy Appleyard to #42 and John Trethowan to #26.
Oliver G *Paul*

 

[the croucher]

Hi all,

Long time follower of this thread, but first-time poster. Pretty new to this, so hopefully I'm not breaking any of the rules / etiquette by posting here. I do apologise if so. Basically, I too (like many here) have built a database / website for footy records across various leagues. An oddity I came across about a year ago, that I've been trying to reconcile for quite some time now, is what is currently accepted for:

Thornton (Tom) Gainsborough Clarke (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornton_Clarke) (b. 27 Nov 1891), who played 6 games for Fitzroy in 1911. It is also commonly accepted that he came from Mt. Lyell (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/10902905) prior to playing for Fitzroy.

Where this begins to become inconsistent with other recorded history is that the same Thornton Clarke is noted for having played for Essendon Association (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/74592229/7216135). In fact, he is often referred to in post-game reports and anecdotes (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/269638870) and is even noted as having been awarded the Jim 'Frosty' Miller Medal twice (1913 & 1914). Not only do records indicate that he played for Essendon Association in the VFA during 1910-1915 (which raises questions whether he could have played for Fitzroy or have been in Tasmania during this time), the earlier article noting that he played for Essendon Association (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/74592229/7216135) does not mention having played for either Fitzroy or near Mt. Lyell. It can be noted it was an Essendon-based publication, but it is worth noting.

Obviously, the above alone is not enough to say that the person could not have played for both Essendon Association and Fitzroy, however The Age notes in separate reports from the same day (published on 22 May 1911) about matches played on 20 May 1911 that a "Clarke, a giant from Mount Lyell (Tasmania)" played for Fitzroy against St Kilda (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196205921) and that a "Clark (Essendon)" played for Essendon Association against Footscray (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/196205917). The Essendon Gazette reports for the same Essendon Town game that this was "'Tom' Clarke" who kicked 3 goals (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/269638870). It seems unlikely that a person would play in both games.

So with all of the above taken into account, I propose that perhaps the T. Clarke that played for Fitzroy in 1911 is not the Thornton Clarke who played for Essendon Association during 1910-1915, and in fact might even be the T. Clarke this is mentioned in this notice (https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/84539269) regarding the players who will represent Combined Lyell against Combined Zeehan in the Lyell Miners F. A. in 1910. This would align much more closely to the clearance permit in 1911 noting that Fitzroy T. Clarke was from Mount Lyell.

Sadly, I could not find much more. The researchers on this thread seem a lot more capable than I am with finding details on players. I certainly did not have the skills to narrow anyone down with a name as common as Thomas Clarke.

Apologies for the lengthy post. Since Thornton Clarke not being a Fitzroy player would remove someone who served in WWI from Fitzroy's history, I figured I should present a significant portion of the information that led me to make such a claim.

Hope this helps with correcting a potential inaccuracy in the official records. rbartlett - in case you happen to wonder, this is indeed the same person who emailed you earlier this year regarding A. Stevens for a Richmond reserves player.

I think there is enough evidence in the following links to confirm that Thornton (Tom) Gainsborough Clarke is not the person who played for Fitzroy in 1911.

A search of Victoria BDMs reveals Thornton Gainsboroug Clarke registered in the Essendon district with birth certificate number 32784/1891


Thornton G Clark “the popular Essendon Association forward” article in Table Talk issue of 12 December 1912
refers to him having “attained his majority “[i e turning 21 years old], which concurs with him being born at end of November/early December 1891.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/17420957

Clarke is one of the Essendon locals done well…
“..’Wilkie’ is another of the local boys, who with such others as Jack Anderson, Norm Busbridge, Tom Clarke, Jack Lewis, Billy French (last years recruit), have demonstrated that it is absolutely unnecessary to go out of the district for first class footballers.”

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/269640802

search for WW1 records at NAA

Search & Retrieve - Exception error

in item field enter 1970231
then when that record for Thornton Gainsborough Clarke is returned on right hand side click view digital copy and a 49 page document becomes visible. Note his signature uses the Clarke spelling, not Clark.
pages 43 and 44 of that document include extracts from other soldiers about his death and some of them refer to him as “Tom.”

Now we'll just have to double check details for Thomas Augustine Clark/Clarke of Tasmania to lodge him as the replacement name and DOB.