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AFLW 2024 - Round 9 - Indigenous Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records
- Thread starter Supermercado
- Start date
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1993 R20 WC v Haw Behind Correction...
Hawthorn once again
All references have Hawthorn's Andrew Gowers kicking 1 behind in this game, with 6 Rushed for Hawthorn.
Per below video, Gowers clearly kicks 2 behinds, Hawthorn's 6th and 8th. There are 5 Rushed for Hawthorn, all other scores align.
Summary -
1993 Rnd 20 WC v Haw - Andrew Gowers plus 1 behind, Rushed for Hawthorn minus 1 behind.
Hawthorn once again
All references have Hawthorn's Andrew Gowers kicking 1 behind in this game, with 6 Rushed for Hawthorn.
Per below video, Gowers clearly kicks 2 behinds, Hawthorn's 6th and 8th. There are 5 Rushed for Hawthorn, all other scores align.
Summary -
1993 Rnd 20 WC v Haw - Andrew Gowers plus 1 behind, Rushed for Hawthorn minus 1 behind.
- Jul 26, 2014
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Leon Beer (SM) is currently recorded with death date 12 February 1966.
There is a month error in this date as death notice and grave both show death date was 12 January 1966
Summary: Date of death for Leon Beer is 12 January 1966 rather than 12 February 1966
There is a month error in this date as death notice and grave both show death date was 12 January 1966
Summary: Date of death for Leon Beer is 12 January 1966 rather than 12 February 1966
- Jul 26, 2014
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Jack McMillan (Footscray) is currently recorded with death date 30 August 1969.
Find a Grave has newspaper death notices attached to record which shows actual death date was 1 August 1969 and cemetery records show service was 4 August 1969 - Vic BDM shows only one death for a John Angus McMillan in 1969 so its definitely the right guy.
Summary: Date of death for Jack McMillan is 1 August 1969 rather than 30 August 1969
Find a Grave has newspaper death notices attached to record which shows actual death date was 1 August 1969 and cemetery records show service was 4 August 1969 - Vic BDM shows only one death for a John Angus McMillan in 1969 so its definitely the right guy.
Summary: Date of death for Jack McMillan is 1 August 1969 rather than 30 August 1969
1993 Rnd 02 Syd v Haw behind correction.
All references have Hawthorn's James Morrissey kicking 1 behind in this game and Richard Taylor kicking none.
Per below vid, Taylor kicks a behind, Hawthorn's 3rd. James Morrissey does not kick a behind in this game.
No score put up after the point is kicked, but Richard Taylor wearing 4 up in Sydney- 93 R02 was the only game he did that. All other scores align. (The behind guy of this era really didn't care for Hawthorn - other teams always seem correct).
Summary -
1993 Rnd 2 Syd v Haw - Richard B. Taylor plus 1 behind, James Morrissey minus 1 behind.
All references have Hawthorn's James Morrissey kicking 1 behind in this game and Richard Taylor kicking none.
Per below vid, Taylor kicks a behind, Hawthorn's 3rd. James Morrissey does not kick a behind in this game.
No score put up after the point is kicked, but Richard Taylor wearing 4 up in Sydney- 93 R02 was the only game he did that. All other scores align. (The behind guy of this era really didn't care for Hawthorn - other teams always seem correct).
Summary -
1993 Rnd 2 Syd v Haw - Richard B. Taylor plus 1 behind, James Morrissey minus 1 behind.
I thought something about that looked familiar, especially the death notices from the Bird Lovers folks!: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ficial-records.1089761/page-126#post-78547692
I failed to include a summary of the post (in bold) so it's quite possible Steve R. missed it!
AFL Tables still has this player as Jack MacMillan: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_MacMillan.html
*Paul*
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
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Jack MacMillan/McMillan.
The 4 game 17 goal bloke from the stats book?
The 4 game 17 goal bloke from the stats book?
Yes. He kicked 7 on debut.
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
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Pretty good start to a brief career.
OH!
SHIT!
Just realised.
He'll have to be Jack McMillan for future stats books.
- Jul 26, 2014
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Another death date correction
Fred Williams (Carlton/Fitzroy) is currently recorded with death date 7 March 1975.
Player was Frederick Watson Williams, born in North Melbourne to Frederick Williams (1866–1933) and Mary Henderson Watson (1871–1940) and had a brother Thomas Chapman Williams (1909-1990) who also played for Fitzroy - also referenced here.
Newspaper death notices show actual date of death was 20 December 1975 - includes mention of family being from Melton and brother Tom which all lines up with player identity - and he was cremated at Fawkner Cemetery on 23 December 1975.
The high number on Vic BDM death record (29378/1975) also suggests a death late in the year.
Summary: Date of death for Fred Williams is 20 December 1975 rather than 7 March 1975
Oliver G
The Blueseum
Fred Williams (Carlton/Fitzroy) is currently recorded with death date 7 March 1975.
Player was Frederick Watson Williams, born in North Melbourne to Frederick Williams (1866–1933) and Mary Henderson Watson (1871–1940) and had a brother Thomas Chapman Williams (1909-1990) who also played for Fitzroy - also referenced here.
Newspaper death notices show actual date of death was 20 December 1975 - includes mention of family being from Melton and brother Tom which all lines up with player identity - and he was cremated at Fawkner Cemetery on 23 December 1975.
The high number on Vic BDM death record (29378/1975) also suggests a death late in the year.
Summary: Date of death for Fred Williams is 20 December 1975 rather than 7 March 1975
Oliver G
The Blueseum
1993 Rnd 10 WB v Haw - Half Time Score Correction
All online references have Footscray's half-time score as 5.5 (35). It was actually 6.5 (41).
Footscray kicked 4.1 in the 2nd qtr, not 3.1.
The entire game is on youtube. Here is the Dog's 6th goal of the first half, a couple of minutes before half time.
The Age on the Sunday had the score correct at 6.5, but the Footy Record the following week was incorrect.
Summary -
1993 Rnd 10 WB v Haw - Correct Footscray's half time score from 5.5 (35) to 6.5 (41). All other qtr x qtr remain the same.
All online references have Footscray's half-time score as 5.5 (35). It was actually 6.5 (41).
Footscray kicked 4.1 in the 2nd qtr, not 3.1.
The entire game is on youtube. Here is the Dog's 6th goal of the first half, a couple of minutes before half time.
The Age on the Sunday had the score correct at 6.5, but the Footy Record the following week was incorrect.
Summary -
1993 Rnd 10 WB v Haw - Correct Footscray's half time score from 5.5 (35) to 6.5 (41). All other qtr x qtr remain the same.
While doing some research for the family of Brian Falconer (Hawthorn), I came across the discovery that he wore Number 5, in the Round 16 1957 match, rather than his usual No. 36, inthe footage I uploaded last month.
The commentators specifically make reference to it
at the 26.10second mark.
Summary: Brian Falconer (Haw) - Number 5 guernsey for Rd 16 1957
The commentators specifically make reference to it
at the 26.10second mark.
Summary: Brian Falconer (Haw) - Number 5 guernsey for Rd 16 1957
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Ken Goodland (Geelong) is currently recorded with death date 26 March 1982.
Player was Kenneth Gilmore John Goodland and from his burial record and NSW BDM it can be seen he actually died on 26 March 1983 (one year later than currently recorded - probably just from a typo somewhere)
Summary: Date of death for Ken Goodland is 26 March 1983 rather than 26 March 1982
Oliver G
Player was Kenneth Gilmore John Goodland and from his burial record and NSW BDM it can be seen he actually died on 26 March 1983 (one year later than currently recorded - probably just from a typo somewhere)
Summary: Date of death for Ken Goodland is 26 March 1983 rather than 26 March 1982
Oliver G
1939 Preliminary Final - St K vs Collingwood footage I uploaded shows Collingwood number 23 at the centre bounce.
AFL / AF don't have a 23. The footy record of the match however has Marcus Whelan as Number 23.
There may be many more changes once I eventually get through looking at all of the old uploads.
Summary: Marcus Whelan No. 23 not No. 28 for 1939 Preliminary Final v St Kilda
AFL / AF don't have a 23. The footy record of the match however has Marcus Whelan as Number 23.
There may be many more changes once I eventually get through looking at all of the old uploads.
Summary: Marcus Whelan No. 23 not No. 28 for 1939 Preliminary Final v St Kilda
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Out of interest, what is the AFL's burden of proof for guernsey numbers? Do we need to be able to show what number the player started the match in, or what number they finished it in?
E.g. with the Brian Falconer one above, is it possible that he started the game in number 36 but changed into 5 after 36 was somehow ruined? And does that matter?
E.g. with the Brian Falconer one above, is it possible that he started the game in number 36 but changed into 5 after 36 was somehow ruined? And does that matter?
RedmanWasHere
Rarely in kitchens at parties.
- Aug 23, 2010
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- 33,777
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There are occassions where players start the game in the number and finish in another number , and those changes are reflected on AF, and AFLTables with both guernsey numbers for the match.
For different guernseys number there needs to be some visual proof (newspaper/footage). There's no reference in the papers atm that say Falconer began with Number 36 , and the commentators dont say that - so for him we would say he wore Number 5, until evidence arose showing him in a different number earlier.
