Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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1994 Rnd 2 Haw v Melb behind correction for Dees

All references have Melbourne's Todd Viney and Andy Lovell kicking 1 behind each in this game.

Per below video, Todd Viney kicks 2 behinds in this game. Andy Lovell does not kick a behind in this game.



Summary -
1994 Rnd 2 Haw v Melb - Todd Viney plus 1 behind; Andy Lovell minus 1 behind.
 
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In the Recent Deaths thread there are a list of players mentioned and I looked at a few and came across this (and he was alive May 2023 )

Anyone have any supporting evidence - or wants to look for it? Unfortunately as he mentiones another player was credited in the paper so I'm not sure how it can be checked

www.hawthornfc.com.au

Norm Maginness reclaims his 1958 2nd 18 Premiership Guernsey

Peter Haby gives us an insight into the remarkable story behind Norm Maginness being reunited with his beloved guernsey.
www.hawthornfc.com.au www.hawthornfc.com.au

Officially, Norm Maginness did not kick a single goal in his 64 games. However, Maginness claims that he did indeed kick a goal at the Punt Road end of the MCG in a clash with Melbourne. He is not sure of which season it was but remembers being disappointed with the newspapers for incorrectly crediting his goal to a teammate.
 
GreyCrow said:
In the Recent Deaths thread there are a list of players mentioned and I looked at a few and came across this (and he was alive May 2023 )

Anyone have any supporting evidence - or wants to look for it? Unfortunately as he mentiones another player was credited in the paper so I'm not sure how it can be checked

www.hawthornfc.com.au

Norm Maginness reclaims his 1958 2nd 18 Premiership Guernsey

Peter Haby gives us an insight into the remarkable story behind Norm Maginness being reunited with his beloved guernsey.
www.hawthornfc.com.au www.hawthornfc.com.au

Officially, Norm Maginness did not kick a single goal in his 64 games. However, Maginness claims that he did indeed kick a goal at the Punt Road end of the MCG in a clash with Melbourne. He is not sure of which season it was but remembers being disappointed with the newspapers for incorrectly crediting his goal to a teammate.
Click to expand...

Maginness played three times against Melbourne at MCG

31 July 1954 - Round 14 Trove newspapers has wide-ranging coverage of the match. When checked I couldn't see any likely ref to the "missing" goal.

Trove doesn't have these other two matches yet due to copyright date restriction, so it'll have to be the "old-fashioned" trip to State Library and check microfilm.
Will be a while before I get over there, so perhaps one of the locals could visit in next few weeks and see if anything shows up ?

3 August 1957 - Round 15

14 September 1957 - Prelim Final
 

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the croucher said:
Maginness played three times against Melbourne at MCG

31 July 1954 - Round 14 Trove newspapers has wide-ranging coverage of the match. When checked I couldn't see any likely ref to the "missing" goal.

Trove doesn't have these other two matches yet due to copyright date restriction, so it'll have to be the "old-fashioned" trip to State Library and check microfilm.
Will be a while before I get over there, so perhaps one of the locals could visit in next few weeks and see if anything shows up ?

3 August 1957 - Round 15

14 September 1957 - Prelim Final
Click to expand...

The Age report is available for the Rd 15 match, couldn't find a full report on the Prelim. Nothing about Maginness in either though.
 
Tom Tribe (Footscray) is currently recorded with death date 23 December 1992.

He was the brother of George Tribe, parents were Albert John Tribe and Annie Teresa McGrath.
There are only three Thomas Tribes that appear to have ever lived in Victoria, and two of them have 1992 death records
1730277023525.png
The footballer was Thomas Joseph Tribe, Vic BDM record 1/1992 (i.e. the first death registered in Victoria in 1992)
This made me suspicious that death might have been 1991 and this cemetery record appears to be him. Date of death is recorded as 24 December 1991.

Summary: Date of death for Tom Tribe is 24 December 1991 rather than 23 December 1992
 
rbartlett said:
SR is wondering what the correct spelling of Scanlon/Scanlan is.
As his wikipedia has both variations.

Glen Scanlon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Click to expand...

Wonder if this is the player...
Electoral Rolls on Ancestry show a Glenn Lawrence Scanlan at Victoria St Melbourne 3000 in 1977 as a storeman, then in 1980 same names and spelling in Sunshine North as a driver. The 1975 roll which he would also have been eligible for, doesn't seem to be online anywhere.
 
the croucher said:
Wonder if this is the player...
Electoral Rolls on Ancestry show a Glenn Lawrence Scanlan at Victoria St Melbourne 3000 in 1977 as a storeman, then in 1980 same names and spelling in Sunshine North as a driver. The 1975 roll which he would also have been eligible for, doesn't seem to be online anywhere.
Click to expand...
According to this he would have been playing for Sunshine (VFA) by about that time (1980):
1730375725883.png
 
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the croucher said:
Wonder if this is the player...
Electoral Rolls on Ancestry show a Glenn Lawrence Scanlan at Victoria St Melbourne 3000 in 1977 as a storeman, then in 1980 same names and spelling in Sunshine North as a driver. The 1975 roll which he would also have been eligible for, doesn't seem to be online anywhere.
Click to expand...
That is him... and he's on facebook - living in Warracknabeal by the looks of it. In 2018 there are posts on 7 April wishing him happy birthday and refs to his family being in Qld. Correct spelling seems to be Glenn Scanlan
 
WhiteHartLane23 said:
That is him... and he's on facebook - living in Warracknabeal by the looks of it. In 2018 there are posts on 7 April wishing him happy birthday and refs to his family being in Qld. Correct spelling seems to be Glenn Scanlan
Click to expand...

All that evidence seems correct.

Summary: Ensure Glenn Scanlan is spelt this way in his Wiki/AFLTables/AustFoot etc
 
1994 R13 Haw v Fitz behind correction

All references have Hawthorn's Paul Hudson kicking 3 behinds in this game and Tim Hargreaves none.

Hargreaves kicks 1 behind, per the below video. Hudson only kicks 2 behinds in this game.



Summary -
1994 Rnd 13 Haw v Fitz - Tim Hargreaves plus 1 behind, Paul Hudson minus 1 behind.
 
1994 R18 Haw v NM - behind correction for North.

All references have North's Darren Crocker kicking no behinds in this game with 2 rushed behinds for North.

Per below video, Crocker kicks one behind, North's 4th of the game. There is only 1 rushed behind for North, all other scores align.



Summary -
1994 Rnd 18 Haw v NM - Darren Crocker plus 1 behind, Rushed for NM minus 1 behind.
 
Stan Brown (South Melb) is currently recorded with death date 16 September 1994.

Somewhere someone appears to have made a typo as correct date is 16 September 1984 - one decade earlier

Full name was Stanley Maxwell Brown and he died at Traralgon (Vic BDM 1984/28054) and is buried at Yallourn Cemetery

Summary: Date of death for Stan Brown is 16 September 1984 rather than 16 September 1994

Oliver G - also af.com has Mel Brown listed as his brother but this is incorrect - both Stan's parents were born in 1901 and Mel Brown was born in 1911 (edit - have worked out they were cousins, their fathers were brothers)
 
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And another death date issue (for context I've been adding burial/cremation details to wikidata and in the process finding a few anomalies - will post elsewhere with some details as its now 80% complete and will be of interest to some of you)

Ted Brewis of Carlton - he was in the missing deaths list 7 years ago and I tracked down his son who supplied a death date of 4 Oct 1994 which turns out to be incorrect.

Since then Ryerson index has added some entries relating to Ted as per below
1730856552013.png
The 4 Oct 1994 date was the funeral date and actual death date is 30 Sep 1994

Summary: Date of death for Ted Brewis is 30 September 1994 rather than 4 October 1994
Oliver G
 
WhiteHartLane23 said:
Oliver G - also af.com has Mel Brown listed as his brother but this is incorrect - both Stan's parents were born in 1901 and Mel Brown was born in 1911
Click to expand...
Looking at the situation with the parents it's obvious those two can't be brothers, but with articles like these from the time it's not surprising someone believed they were!:
1730855502633.png
1730855434883.png
The Encyclopedia has this for the Stan Brown entry:
1730856171614.png
That DOB presumably actually belongs to Stanley Maxwell Brown. A spreadsheet I've looked at (compiled by Col Hutchinson), doesn't have Mel and Stan Brown as brothers, so it seems rather likely to me that the identity of Stan was changed in the AFL's records a while back.
 
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1994 QF NM v Haw - behind correction

Tim Hargreaves strikes again.

All references have him Hawthorn's Tim Hargreaves kicking no behinds in this game, and Paul Dear kicking one.

The full game is on youtube. At the 57 minute mark of the below video, Hargreaves kicks a behind, Hawthorn's 6th. Paul Dear does not kick a behind in this game. All other scores align.



Summary -
1994 QF NM v Haw - Tim Hargreaves plus 1 behind; Paul Dear minus 1 behind.
 
1994 R09 Adel v Haw - behind correction

All references have Hawthorn's Paul Hudson kicking 1 behind in this game and Jason Dunstall kicking 6.

The full game is on youtube - Hudson kicks 2 behinds, Hawthorn's 5th and 6th. The first one is at 1:01:15 in the below video, the second one about 4 minutes later at 1:05:10. Dunstall kicks 5 behinds in this game, all other scores align (including 2 rushed for Hawthorn that Dunstall has no involvement in).



Summary -
1994 Rnd 9 Adel v Haw - Paul Hudson plus 1 behind, Jason Dunstall minus 1 behind.
 
1994 R11 Footscray jumper number update

Doug Hawkins began the game in his normal number 7 but sometime in the 2nd qtr switched to number 60. I think perhaps because he got blood on his original jumper.

94 R11 07.jpg 94 R11 60.jpg

Summary -
1994 R11 Haw v WB - Doug Hawkins wore both number 7 and 60.
 
1994 R12 Syd v Haw behind correction

All references have Hawthorn's Rayden Tallis kicking 1 behind and Matthew Young kicking none.

The behind kicked in the below video was credited to Tallis, when it's clearly Young that kicks it. Tallis does not kick a behind in this game. All other scores align.



Summary -
1994 Rnd 12 Syd v Haw - Matthew Young plus 1 behind, Rayden Tallis minus 1 behind.
 
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rbartlett said:
Another one to consider.
Is Charlie Byrne, who is recorded in AFL Tables as playing Rd 6 1916 for Fitzroy against Collingwood, really the same player who didn't play again til Rd 1 1917 for Fitzroy.
The reason I ask, is that the Footy Record in 1917 calls that match his first game. (Obviously, there may have forgotten he played 1 game the year before).
But so too does The Winner http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154547699

So, searching for match reports of Rd 6 1916, I can't really find Byrne, but there is a Burns.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154795709
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article155074600
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154556549 (this says he was a late call-up, but again the spelling is Burns

Now it's possible the press typed his name wrong, but I can't seem to find a Byrnes anywhere around Rd 6 1916.
So, I'm just wondering if a player did play called Burns, instead of Byrne
Click to expand...
the croucher said:
Looks like Byrne played both in 1916 and 1917.

The VFL Record for 24 June 1916 see page 5
http://digital.slv.vic.gov.au/view/..._RULE_ID=4&divType=&usePid1=true&usePid2=true
mentions that he didn't have a permit to play the Round 6 match v Collingwood, so it was thought better not to play him the next week.

Seems his "papers" to play for Fitzroy did not come through until the start of the next season.
In the meantime he must have received a permit to move from Brighton to Preston in 1916
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154553642
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154553661

and then at start of 1917 a permit from Preston to Fitzroy.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/154976781
Click to expand...
The game's records have two Byrne brothers playing at senior level for Fitzroy (1916/17). They were William Joseph (Bill) Byrne (1896-1930), and Charles Frederick (Charlie) Byrne (1895-1924). A third brother, Richard Henry (Dick) Byrne (1893-1937) was also a decent footballer, playing for Brighton, Northcote, and it seems rather likely for Fitzroy as well!
1731433342013.png
This will be Bill and Dick both heading to Northcote in 1918:
1731430568827.png
Charlie and Dick at Moorabbin in 1914:
1731431163855.png
1731433475028.png

It doesn't seem to add up that Charlie could have played that game for Fitzroy in 1916: https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/C/Charlie_Byrne.html
It was the Rd. 6 game against Collingwood, 10 June 1916. If this is correct I think it probably explains everything!:
1731430190437.png
This is the 'clip' from the Rd. 8 Football Record:
1731433876973.png
From the Football Record (Rd. 7):
1731432767076.png
1731432815882.png
1731435094287.png
Charlie had gone to Preston by the time of the Collingwood game:
1731434182267.png
Charlie and Bill were at Preston later in the year:
1731435554537.png
And this is probably them together the week before the Fitzroy/Collingwood game:
1731437475185.png

With Charlie Byrne having left for Preston just prior to when Fitzroy met Collingwood in the 1916 Rd. 6 game (and being in the team straight away), I think it's very reasonable to believe that brother Richard/Dick played the 1916 game that's currently credited to Charlie.

I think there's enough evidence to make the case that Fitzroy should have a new player, a third Byrne brother, but I'm interested to see what others make of this!

FWIW I looked into the Byrne brothers because at Collingwood District (Collingwood's reserves team) in 1923 there's an R. Byrne and W. Byrne playing, and I'm trying to find first names for them. I think there's a fair chance it will prove to be that two of the brothers played there, but I'm not that sure at the moment.

Summary - It was Dick Byrne who played for Fitzroy in the 1916 Rd. 6 game vs. Collingwood, rather than his brother Charlie Byrne. Dick Byrne is a new player for Fitzroy.
 
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Resource List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

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