Luke Ball - Who was at fault?

[astro_toby]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

RE: Medhurst & DAVIS - two players who have been all australian in the past 2 seasons for a player who has clearly become surplus to requirements at his club?

.

hilarious this quote....

Medhurst - all australian hey? Everyone is saying Ball is worth shit because he got dropped for a few rounds for the 1st time in his career - but still got himself up to play finals and the grand final.....

Where was Medhurst come the the last final? Dropped cos of poor form.

Collingwood once again looking at their players with Rose colored glasses.

Medhurst is slightly better than Milne - Collingwood can say till they turn blue that pick 25 was "enough" - but you keep ignoring that, if st kilda are going to give a rival top 4 side a very good player - they at least want to get one back in return to ensure that in 2010 they are just as strong.

This thread cl;early said neutral supporters only yet every pie w***er and his mother / dog comes barking in

end of the day - you didn't offer enough! if you did you would have Luke Ball right now, and probably Stevens

LMAO at the pie supporters giving it to carlton supporters after getting Jolly and claiming to show THEM "thats how you trade"

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

True as true.


Everyone knew Port would be willing to let him go for nothing - they have created a history of doing so.

As such they recieved far more than they could ever have hoped for a guy who is walking out on the club. Well played.


St K have just done the same thing. They have set a precident - don't think that you can walk out on us, declare one team as a preference and just expect to go there.

The Chris Judd deal has set unrealistic expectations of players thinking that they can shop around, pick their destination and watch their club get bent over backwards in order to accomodate their wishes.

the thing with th judd deal though is - Carlton were willing to give West Coast what they wanted / needed.

West coast were rebuilding and needed youth and picks - Cartlon gave them pick 3, a young KP Forwards & pick 20. That is as much as any club has ever given up for a single player

If you really want something - you don't **** around with the cost - you just get it done - THATS how you trade

 

[magicpants]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

I'm obviously not a neutral, but the guy from the AFLPA is, and he is quoted in today's Age as saying "His livelihood and career has been so affected by a trade that did not proceed because of the difference between pick 21 and 25"

Given that there is something like a 90% chance that the player the saints want with pick 21 would still be available with pick 25, it seems churlish for the saints to quibble over four picks in the draft.

I truly believe that the saints would trade only if the deal represented a claer win for them.

Great Post - check my new thread on rodney eade with the link to the same article!! trippy

 

[crawl4]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Medhurst - all australian hey? Everyone is saying Ball is worth shit because he got dropped for a few rounds for the 1st time in his career - but still got himself up to play finals and the grand final.....

Where was Medhurst come the the last final? Dropped cos of poor form.

I think both of you need to get out of this thread because your both biased. Yes Medhurst was dropped to VFL but next year he will be much better having a proper pre-season. Ball is great but I would take Medhurst anyday.

 

[astro_toby]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

I think both of you need to get out of this thread because your both biased. Yes Medhurst was dropped to VFL but next year he will be much better having a proper pre-season. Ball is great but I would take Medhurst anyday.

why the hell am i biased? I'm a richmond supporter?

This is ironically being said to me by a Collingwood supporter LMFAO

I am not biased - i ****ing hate St kilda and its supporters with a burning passion

What i have is an OPINION you w***er -not a "biased view"

idiot


BTW - so if medhurst has a dreadful form slump that see's him dropped for finals ( and he has had several major form slumps at Freo & collingwood now ) he will be "ok" with a pre season under his belt......but ball wont?

Ball >>>>>> medhurst

If you couldn't even part with medhurst to get Ball - you are having a laugh

 

[absy]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Medhurst was injured since like round 8... Needed to be dropped before weeks before the final if he was actually going to be dropped. Bad move that one.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

It seems that the clubs that tapped up players ended up having to pay a premium for them. I certainly think we paid in the nose for Gibson and Burgers, whereas Jolly, Lovett and Fev went on the cheap.

Collingwood was right to try to get him on the cheap, but the Saints were right to try to get the most in the deal.

I don't see it as anyone's fault. It;s the nature of doing business. The Saints are obviously prepared to lose him for nothing and the Pies obviously didn't value him as much as the Saints did.

 

[dmc333]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

St.Kilda, or more specifically Lyon. He came out with his David Brent style speech on GF night, and frankly if you watch the video from about 0.35 you'll find Lyon was channelling the best of Brent with his "we'll move you on" dribble.

[YOUTUBE]W2c5j01Z6yY[/YOUTUBE]

And then when push came to shove, someone, who he clearly doesn't rate, wants to move, and he turns into the snivelling office manager he is - unable to write something down. Still valuing his stock at retail price after the roof leaked and damaged it all.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

The rules are no good.

If a player is out of contract and wants to leave, why does his existing club deserve anything at all?

The hawks lost Kennedy and McGlynn for a handful of picks. They were worth more than that to us but we had to let them go because they wanted to leave and were out of contract.

Somehow we got pick 16 for Williams - I think Essendon had to pay a bit more because he was still under contract, despite him wanting to leave.

Jolly wanted Collingwood - they paid peanuts for him, somehow, despite him being under contract.

Yet here we have Ball, a guy who has struggled but is extremely valuable to a side when he's up and about (and would fit into Collingwood well), he wants to go there and they want him. How could a deal not be made?

They didn't have a first draft pick to give, so that wasn't an option.
I'm not sure how many out-of-contract players they had so I can't really comment there, but if Ross was hanging out for one or two contracted players it would never work.

Basically - you can't say Ross has done the right thing here by the player, because the player isn't at the club he chose and nominated. You can't say he's done the right thing by St Kilda because they now receive ZERO compensation for him. So what has he done? Ego-stroke.

Ross Lyon has gone mad.

 

[crawl4]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

why the hell am i biased? I'm a richmond supporter?

This is ironically being said to me by a Collingwood supporter LMFAO

I am not biased - i ****ing hate St kilda and its supporters with a burning passion

What i have is an OPINION you w***er -not a "biased view"

idiot


BTW - so if medhurst has a dreadful form slump that see's him dropped for finals ( and he has had several major form slumps at Freo & collingwood now ) he will be "ok" with a pre season under his belt......but ball wont?

Ball >>>>>> medhurst

If you couldn't even part with medhurst to get Ball - you are having a laugh

calm down buddy ..ask most pies fans and they wont part with medhurst for ball. Still we are pathetic traders at best..

 

[Vendrell]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

St Kilda stuffed up by giving a first round pick for Lovett. The bloke's done nothing in his career. A downhill skier whose best is very good and whose worst is him going missing far too often. Won't be long before he gets some of the Raph Clarke hatred from Saints fans.

If St Kilda gave up a second round pick and maybe a young fringe player to get Lovett, perhaps the deal to get Ball to the pies would've been easier to achieve.

 

[vesra]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Saints are at fault, they didn't let it happen. Simple as that. Not Ball nor Pies ever had control of the situation from the moment Ball said he wanted out, he lost control. Now he's cornered and will resign. I don't know what the big deal is, I know he would walk into the Pies team and be a star, I guess from our perspective its water off a ducks back. He'll be nice to have around next season though, watch those tackle stats I'm sure Malthouse will be.

 

[clobba]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

The OP asked for neutral supporters opinions. So far this thread has been dominated by StK & Coll supporters.

Was resisting the urge to reply as whats the point and the OP said not to, so I shall not comment on the trade but as far as I can see theres way more of the boldeds looking for a mea culpa than St's bothering too

 

[THE_GUN]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

there are faults from all 3 parties here !

st kilda..........loyal servant 8 year player who you dont need or want from the way it looks........get him to where he wants to go min fuss.

collingwood, well they do what they do every year always want to get players on the cheapside.........if you commit to a player you need to be able to deliver. find out what the seller wants & find the currency to buy it simple or dont commit to the player. collingwood will have problems attracting players to select them after this very bad pr for them

finally luke ball...................... i dont feel sorry for him at all
wow didnt get to collingwood bigdeal.....nothing gives him the right to get there at the expence of his club.
ball will do very well in his curren situation & has 2 options !

nd ball puts $650k on his head and waits for a team with deep pockets to select him possibly essendon if not he gets to the pies & collects big cash along the way !

psd puts $750k on hid head & will get to melb,rich,port,essendon,freo & make a shit load of cash in the next 5 years ............not really a big problem.

1 thing for certain is he would be stupid to stay with the saints now

time to collect the cash for luke & his manager.

 

[Professor Knowall]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

So - we all know it went like this

Ball, after spending a fair amount of this year in the VFL, says he wants out and wants to be traded to Collingwood.

Collingwood offer up their second round pick #30

StKilda say no - give us #30 and Tyson Goldsack and you have a deal.

Collingwood say no - Tyson Goldsack is a wanted player, but we'll arrange to get #25 plus also throw in our 4th round #62 for you.

StKilda refuse the revised offer (which is their right).

Collingwood then finally say OK - we accept your original offer, you can have #30 and Tyson Goldsack.

Ross Lyon, despite the personal pleas of Luke Ball, then reneges on the original offer made by StKilda to get the deal done.


As I'm biased, I won't offer my opinion on who was to blame for the deal not getting done.

The basic facts are set out above. You can draw you own conclusions as to who was to blame

 

[Borgsta]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

St Kilda stuffed up by giving a first round pick for Lovett. The bloke's done nothing in his career. A downhill skier whose best is very good and whose worst is him going missing far too often. Won't be long before he gets some of the Raph Clarke hatred from Saints fans.

If St Kilda gave up a second round pick and maybe a young fringe player to get Lovett, perhaps the deal to get Ball to the pies would've been easier to achieve.

No Collingwood stuffed up by not offering any players of value. You guys traded away pick 14 for Jolly (great trade) and basically had nothing else to trade with (pick wise). As soon as the Jolly deal got done the Pies had to trade out a player to get the deal done.

It's all well and good making other offers with 5 minutes left but really that is just BS.

Ball's manager is also an idiot.

 

[Crow Chick]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

IMO St. Kilda is not at fault. I'm sure if Ball had said trade me to Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon or Hawthorn, we would have gone. Their hands were tied having to deal with Collingwood.

Regarding picks....St. Kilda may have a top 15 player draft list. Then another list from 16-40. You expect some from your top list to slip through to pick 20/21, but they won't be around at pick 25 or 30. St. Kilda's first pick is at 32, they will probably get the same player they would have got at pick 25 or 30 anyway!!!

Obviously Collingwood didn't want Ball enough to do a deal, which is fair enough from their point of view. If you really want a player you normally pay a bit more than what they are worth. Look at Sydney, at the time pick 16 for Ball was probably too much, but they really needed a ruckman and their punt paid off.

 

[Pie eyed]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

No Collingwood stuffed up by not offering any players of value. You guys traded away pick 14 for Jolly (great trade) and basically had nothing else to trade with (pick wise). As soon as the Jolly deal got done the Pies had to trade out a player to get the deal done.

It's all well and good making other offers with 5 minutes left but really that is just BS.

Ball's manager is also an idiot.

Where do you get this shit or do you just make it up?

 

[Rhino5]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

The rules are no good.

If a player is out of contract and wants to leave, why does his existing club deserve anything at all?

it's a fair question....

 

[HFF]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Can't people read? What part of neutral supporters don't you understand?

Personally i don't think anyone was to blame as such.

Pies rated him as a second round pick and the Saints rated him a bit higher.

Personally i would have been extremely angry with Essendon if we were to use anything more than our pick #26 on him. He simply isn't that good a player.

FWIW i reckon the Pies handled themselves very well. People bag them out but why the **** should they pay more than they think a player is worth just because people on the outside tell them they should? I reckon they will be justified in their decision not to offer any more for him.

People bagged them out for not offering more than Didak for Stevens. How did that turn out? Call them shrewed or whatever but they stand by their principles and it genereally pays off for them.

Respect +1 SJ.

 

[PAUR]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

If I was the saints I would have played hard over this because collingwood are also a premiership contender. Why make them stronger for no reward in your premiership window, which is what draft picks add next year to their GF challenge.

My club has a history of these trading scenarios so take my opinion with a pinch of salt

And I thought this thread was for neutral club supporters only?!?

 

[Ron]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Ball >>>>>> medhurst

If Richmond would rather have Ball than Medders it probably explains why they have made the finals twice in the last 600 years.

Medhurst was injured for a large chunk of the year and when he came back couldn't find form. He single handedly won one game for us last year, despite having a shit year. That's one more than Ball won for the Saints last year.

 

[krisholio14]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Nobody is at fault.

If Collingwood wanted him badly enough they would have gotten him.

They didn't, and we move on.

 

[iameviljez]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

I don't blame the Saints at all. I blame Luke Ball and Collingwood, fair and square.

Collingwood are probably the worst team to deal with when it comes to the trade table as they are notorious for refusing to offer anything of value (which is their right - but it does rule them out of most trades). Luke Ball is worth far more than pick 25 and Collingwood refuses to offer a player of worth to the Saints, such as a Nathan Brown or Brad Dick. They didn't want him badly enough to trade one of these players; that's quite alright.

Most of all, though, Luke Ball should have known this.

I can understand Ball not wanting to go to a rebuilding team such as Richmond, North or Melbourne; not wanting to move interstate, nor could he fit under the cap at Geelong, but he could have still dealt with Essendon, Hawthorn, the Dogs, or Carlton.

He chose not to; he can't complain about being stuck at the Saints.

 

[AG]

Re: Luke Ball - Who was at fault? Neutral fans only pls!

Luke Ball is at fault. He didn't want to fight for his spot and then only gave St Kilda one club to trade with. If he wanted to go to a good side, he should have stayed.
Without having a clue what goes on behind closed doors, it looks like Ball thinks too highly of himself. He warranted being dropped to the VFL, his body doesn't allow him to play a high percentage of game time, St Kilda didn't treat him unfairly.

In regards to the actually trade it's St Kilda's fault. 25 and the other pick was a fair deal.